On 28 Nov 02, at 19:51, paul vandenbrink wrote:
> 1. Why fix something that is not broken?
> The current names are inadequate. They would make the pronouncing of
> acronyms clumbersome.
OK, do you mean acronyms such as "laser" and "NATO" or what some people
call "initialisms" such as "FBI" and "UCLA"? In the first case, it's
pronounced like a word -- and you can do that with Shavian already. In
the second case, each letter is named separately, and there the Shavian
word would be longer. *shrug* Other languages have a similar problem.
> I was unable to come up with ideal names for all these letter, which
> is why I threw this topic open to the group.
OK, fair enough. Let's have a show of hands -- who here supports Paul
and thinks we need new names for Shavian letters? Who thinks that the
names in _Androcles_ are sufficient?
For that matter, how many people actively read the list? It seems to be
fewer than half-a-dozen, by the looks of it recently. Maybe my memory
deceives me.
> Any other practical suggestions?
Well, you could do as the Greeks do -- they still have multi-syllable
letter names but sometimes abbreviate them, especially in pronouncing
initialisms. For example, I heard that KKE (the abbreviation for
Communist Party of Greece) could be either "kappa-kappa-epsilon" (the
"proper" names) or "kou-kou-e" (with simplified names).
But then I'd go all the way and use some scheme such as "consonant
sound + 'oo'" or "'e' + consonant", similar to the way English has it
(jay, kay / eff, en, em / cee, gee, tee, vee / etc.).
On the other hand, I think such matters might best be decided through
usage. No-one is king of the language, and I don't think you *nor* I
(nor anyone else) can convince a bunch of people to switch to different
names in unison. Just use whatever you like, and if it becomes popular,
then it'll be viable alternative. If it doesn't become popular, then
only a few people will be using it -- but it won't be the end of the
world. What I don't really want is for three people to use a new scheme
and constantly try to push it on other people as a "better" or
"obviously optimal" scheme. Different people will have different
opinions.
And in general, I'd vote to keep things pretty much as they are now,
without going too widely afield -- or at least not on a public list
such as this. If I wanted to add a couple of letters (say, a "hw"
sound, or a new vowel sound for those who distinguish between "horse"
and "hoarse"), then I could do so but I think shavian@...
would not be the appropriate venue, since it wouldn't be Shavian any
more. Similarly with new letter names, deleted letters, changed
letterforms such as Quikscript and what-have-you.
Please, Paul, when you come up with a great new idea for Shavian to
take it in a new direction, if you get some support on the group, then
great, but if you don't, then please move it elsewhere. I keep getting
the feeling that you're a bit of a troublemaker, trying to sow seeds of
difference either just for the sake of it, to promote your own ideas,
or whatever. I think Shavian works as it is.
I hope that when I get ideas about changing the language, I'll move
them elsewhere as well if I think people aren't interested.
> 3. As for "Eat" and "Ian", I am treating the initial sound as being
> the same while I try aand determine whether "Ian" is an actual
> Dipthong. Any Linguists willing to venture an opinion?
I don't know what to use "Ian" for, besides the name itself. On the
other hand, I haven't read through _Androcles_ and don't see how it
uses that letter.
I don't think I'd use "Ian" in my writing, but I still consider it a
part of the Shavian alphabet.
(But I'd say that the initial sound if "Ian" is indeed a diphthong -- a
falling diphthong, at that. It's a similar sound in "nearly", for a non-
rhotic speaker.)
> I thought that sound wound would be better represented by "eat"
> + "ado".
Possibly.
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
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