Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

While i normally run linux, my internet, and thus, my e-mail is on a
mac, running 9.1

--Star

--- "George <pan@...>" <pan@...> wrote:
> To tell you the truth, I just had a rather disappoointing
> experience.
>
> A couple of days ago I uploaded - to the Read Alphabet group - a
> MacIntosh app that will convert Roman spelled english test into
> QuickScript. One might think that it would cause a stir or that
> someone might say "Gee, good job!"
>
> I guess they are are all on PC's and really don't give a ...
>
> So, before I spend any time on adapting it to Shavian, is there
> anyone on THIS group that uses a Mac?
>
>
>


=====
"Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster killing...Hello!"

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Alright, perhaps you have hit a monor nerve, as I have a beef myself
with my fellows own stupidity. Welcome to America, land of the world's
dumbest lawsuits ect, and "when animals attack 7"

I believe that it seemed as though this was being imposed by someone
from "outside" to the American writing system, and I would like to see
a version done for the Brits, by brits, as well as one done for the
states, by the states...

No flame intended,
--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Star Raven
>
>
> Alright I must assert once again, that I AM american and I can hear
> a
> differance. Just leave it, and STOP trying to assume that all
> americans
> are blind, deaf and dumb. I am a traditionalist, I do like the way
> that
> the shavian alphabet is constructed. I do see probblems, the ng-h
> reversal for instance. But why, if there is a difference to me and
> others from the states, are you so insistant that there needs to be
> a
> "smaller and simpler" version for Americans?
> Have I hit a nerve?
>
> IT IS NOT A SMALLER AND SIMPLER VERSION FOR AMERICANS. NEITHER AM I
> SAYING AMERICANS ARE INCOMPETENT.
>
> Why are you reading it the way you are?
>
> The cut alphabet is only a response to GENUINE PROBLEMS. They have
> been discussed ad infinitum for years. Where were you when these
> debates were taking place? I have had DOZENS of Americans come to me
> TELLING me they do not observe a difference. If they don't come to me
> and tell me, I notice it clearly in their writing. I also had it
> confirmed by the Merriam-Webster dictionary, and then by a
> phonetician at my University. You are probably the FIRST I have heard
> from who observes a difference. Perhaps you could transliterate
> Shaw's test piece into traditional Shavian and we will see how 'well'
> you observe it? I've never seen your Shavian writing.
>
> May I remind you that Samuel Johnson was a traditionalist, and look
> what his 'traditionalist' dictionary did to English spelling.
>
> Hugh B


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Yep. I've only got Windows 2000 and Linux. I could
never afford a Mac, no matter how much I made ...
although I've used one before in work as a programmer
porting software. I was interested in seeing what you
had. I had been playing around with some generic code
to do the same for Shavian myself.



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On Sat, 2003-02-08 at 09:02, George wrote:
> To tell you the truth, I just had a rather disappoointing
> experience.
>
> A couple of days ago I uploaded - to the Read Alphabet group - a
> MacIntosh app that will convert Roman spelled english test into
> QuickScript. One might think that it would cause a stir or that
> someone might say "Gee, good job!"
>
> I guess they are are all on PC's and really don't give a ...
>

Funny you should mention this; the same thing happened to me with my
Shavian converter for Linux
(http://www.geocities.com/rschmertz/Shavian_Converter.html). I even
supplied the C source code so that any random Windows user could compile
it themselves, making a Windows binary that I could post to get people
past that first step, but no one took me up on it.

> So, before I spend any time on adapting it to Shavian, is there
> anyone on THIS group that uses a Mac?

I use an iBook -- but it's booted into Linux 98% of the time. Plus I
haven't been that interested in Shavian lately. Plus I already have my
own app for it, which I could compile for OS X if I could get my hands
on a dev't environment. I'd like to check out your Quickscript program
to see if it's as lame as my (command-line only, so far) Shavian
converter.

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz


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I must say first, "Does anyone else feel like C.S. Lewis?"

I have a guinea pig, and I am frankly offended that so many have been
put out of work as test subjects and as food... ;)

> We need a few American and Australian Test subjects. (The word Guinea
Pigs is
> no longer P.C.)

It was more of a 'thought at the moment. I see us all as "wiz's" of a
sort, as we are working to create an alphabet from behind the scenes.
The use of words is our theatrics. Now, I also feel I must defend my
stance on standardization. Since the begining of language, the only way
that progress has been made in evolving the language is by a lack of
spelling rules. Up until the early to mid seventeeth centuries, thanks
to men like Dr. Samuel Johnson, and Noah Webster (both dictionary
makers) there was freedom in spelling and a clear evolution of english,
from the great vouel change with the Norman Invasion to the slippage of
R's that still persists to day in many english dialects, to the future
changes seen in Oakland, CA, where you may or may not know, they have
begun teaching English as a second language to those children who speak
"ebonics."

I feel that the only way that these changes can be truly reflected is
to, as with the "great vowel slide,' use Shavian as a tool to allow for
spellings the way people speak. Observe, for instance, Latin, and the
word "reducio" that I heard the other day. Now, the ancient or
"classical' latin pronunciation is ree-DUK-eeoh (quack quack) versus
the modern latin and smoother italian pronunciation of ree-D(long
oo)TCH-eeoh. So this begs the question, would this change have taken
place if the spelling had been standardised as we wish to do with
shavian?

> P.S. Star, Much as I feel honored to be compared favorably to any
> literary figure, I feel that the justly maligned Wizard of Oz, is
> beyond my capacity, both in machination, and in shear theatrical
> display. Beside have I ever asked you to change the Hugh you view, or
>
> put on blinders of any kind.
> My Dear Lady. How Unfair. :)

:) --Star, the wicked witch of the SE

=====
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George - do not despair. There are those of out there who use the Read Alphabet and also are Mac-persons.
It's just that I received no notice of your interesting addition to the discussion.
Rest assured I will download it immediately with curiosity and enthusiasm




To tell you the truth, I just had a rather disappoointing
experience.

A couple of days ago I uploaded - to the Read Alphabet group - a
MacIntosh app that will convert Roman spelled english test into
QuickScript. One might think that it would cause a stir or that
someone might say "Gee, good job!"

I guess they are are all on PC's and really don't give a ...

So, before I spend any time on adapting it to Shavian, is there
anyone on THIS group that uses a Mac?



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--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk


"@un simbel iL az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdeB
evrI@an ataceL H sEm mIGiN tM it."
- /JPJ /bxGRB /SY

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OK . I exaggerated a little bit.. it's actually Applescript operating a
scriptable text editor - Style 1.9.1

BUT, it exists, it's a droplet, ALL of the materials I worked with,
including Style and the original CMU dictionary, and the scripts
source code are in the .sit

And, it works.

Before I put it up here, I wrote to the guy with the Shaw 3.0 font for
permission to use it, and I want to improve a couple of things to
make sure it doesn't get bogged down with long ( 10K? and
larger ) texts. and to provide you better options for unknown
words.

I'm going to take a look at the C code mentioned, but I was going
to put that off until I upgraded to X.

I have to do registration for my local Girls Softball League for the
next couple of weeks, so this may take a bit. The changes aren't
big, but I want to be careful.





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--- In shavian@..., Bob Schmertz
<rschmertz@s...> wrote:
> Funny you should mention this; the same thing happened to
me with my
> Shavian converter for Linux
> (http://www.geocities.com/rschmertz/Shavian_Converter.html).
I even
> supplied the C source code so that any random Windows user
could compile
> it themselves, making a Windows binary that I could post to get
people
> past that first step, but no one took me up on it.
>

People's lives are like wooden wagon tracks in a muddy field.

Where they are the ground is hard packed and easy to travel. And
of course, when they see other people in *their* tracks it seems
that what they are doing is easy enough.

But step off your track and you're mud sucked. Most won't slog
long enough to make a new track, most of those won't even pay
respect for the slogging others do.

I'd love to take a long look at your C code. I'm sure that the
libraries included with Cocoa in OS X will take care of that
"command line" problem you mentioned, although *I* don't see it
as a problem.

Thank you!





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As I understand it, the whole developement environment,
including the gcc compiler that X is written with is included in the
3 CD Mac OS X.2 set.





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George:

I have never used a Mac. I appreciate your efforts but had not had the time to respond. This group has seemed recently to consist primarily of lurkers rather than writers as in the Shavian group. Last week I did an analysis of the people subscribed to it and found only about 30 people who are subscribed to both it and the Shavian group. I would like to see some more activity. I was somewhat surprised there was not more overlap. We actually have more people in this group than the Shavian group does.

I have been using a hybrid Linux/Windows system, which has caused me difficulty in actually writing in QS. I plan to change that in the near future. I would like to see more people actually posting in QS.

Again, thanks for your work.

Paige Gabhart

George wrote:


To tell you the truth, I just had a rather disappoointing
experience.

A couple of days ago I uploaded - to the Read Alphabet group - a
MacIntosh app that will convert Roman spelled english test into
QuickScript. One might think that it would cause a stir or that
someone might say "Gee, good job!"

I guess they are are all on PC's and really don't give a ...

So, before I spend any time on adapting it to Shavian, is there
anyone on THIS group that uses a Mac?





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








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