Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-10 17:19:09 #
Subject: Congratulations - We are inaugurating a new Shaw Forum

Toggle Shavian
Hi Hugh
The date will be easy to remember. It is the day before Remembrance
Day, 2004.
Anyway maybe Scott can add another Link from www.Shavian.org for the
new forum.
I know that is the way that I usually get here.

in-Y-gD-ES-an
I hope this change augurs well for the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet.
All the best, Paul V.

From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
Date: 2004-11-10 17:48:58 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Congratulations - We are inaugurating a new Shaw Forum

Toggle Shavian
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:17:27 -0000, paul vandenbrink
<pvandenbrink@...> wrote:
>
> Anyway maybe Scott can add another Link from www.Shavian.org for the
> new forum.

I'll do it when I get home. (Scott hosts shavian.org on his machine,
but I think the website is more my toy.)

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

From: Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
Date: 2004-11-10 19:44:41 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Congratulations - We are inaugurating a new Shaw Forum

Toggle Shavian
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:48:56 +0100, Philip Newton
<philip.newton@...> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:17:27 -0000, paul vandenbrink
> <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:
> >
> > Anyway maybe Scott can add another Link from www.Shavian.org for the
> > new forum.
>
> I'll do it when I get home.

Done now.

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-11 05:15:33 #
Subject: Re: Congratulations - We are inaugurating a new Shaw Forum

Toggle Shavian
Thanks Phil
The portal page for www.shavian.org looks really nice with
the new addition.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I will transfer over Scott's New FAQS file. It makes a good
starting point for new users. Maybe 1 question at a time.


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton
<philip.newton@g...> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:48:56 +0100, Philip Newton
> <philip.newton@g...> wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:17:27 -0000, paul vandenbrink
> > <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Anyway maybe Scott can add another Link from www.Shavian.org
for the
> > > new forum.
> >
> > I'll do it when I get home.
>
> Done now.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>

From: "Isaac Penzev" <isaacp@...>
Date: 2004-11-11 10:16:32 #
Subject: Re: A new Yahoo Group just for messages

Toggle Shavian
Hugh Birkenhead wrote:

> Pop along and sign up. Haven't a lot of time to say or do more at the
moment
> as I'm on lunch break...

Well done, Hugh! I'm already in! I hope we'll have opportunity to talk not
only ABOUT Sh., but IN Sh. too ;)

-- Isaac (Yitzik) from Ukraine
P.S. You may remember me, I tried to get in touch with you in 2001 or
2002...

From: stbetta@...
Date: 2004-11-11 19:14:47 #
Subject: Cambridge IPA phonetics and conversion

Toggle Shavian
Hí ol alfàbetérz,
This is an experiment in embedded graphics. If you can't view all the
elements on this page, please contact me. stbett@yahoo.com
According to this CUP analysis, the only difference between the sound
categories used by British and American speakers is with respect to the short and
long <oh> /oU/.
Non-rhotics will also drop the <r> before a consonant.

I think that Shavian is rhotic in its display. However, non-rhotics will
probably pronounce the sound signs according to their dialect.

The chart provides a more compact representation of the same information.
However, some people have difficulty reading tabular data. If you have a
problem interpreting this chart, please contact me at stbett@...

If you cannot see the chart go to the file section on the following URL
http://www.foolswisdom.com/~sbett/40-ipa-16c.gif



for an automated conversion of any standard text into IPA go to
IPA Converter [draft]
Manchester - Converter for IPA, Soundspel, Cut Spelling, ...

http://www.ccl.umist.ac.uk/staff/toby/Reformed_Spelling_in_CALL/plaintext.html

for more on converters go to
http://www.foolswisdom.com/~sbett/converters.htm

-------

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/phonetics.htm
Phonetics
By default, phonetics are not displayed in dictionary entries. To enable
them, check the 'Display phonetics' box when you perform your search.
Note: The phonetics feature is currently only available within the Cambridge
International Dictionary of English and the Cambridge Dictionary of American
English.
Pronunciation
vowels
consonants
diphthongs
Other symbols
vowels
long vowels
sheep
farm
coo
horse
bird
short vowels shiphead
hatabove
footmother (US)
sock (UK)
cup


consonants
voiced
book
day
give
very
the
zoo
vision
jump
look
run
yes
we
moon
name
sing
hand
voiceless pen
town
cat
fish
think
say
she
cheese


diphthongs
day
eye
boy
mouth
nose (UK)
nose (US)
ear (UK)
hair (UK)
pure (UK)

Other symbols
restaurant
happy
butter (US)
influenza
little

can be pronounced either etc.
label

rlinking r is pronounced only before a vowel in British English:

four four apples

main stress
expectation
secondary stress
retell
. syllable division
system
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/phonetics.htm

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-12 01:41:40 #
Subject: FAQ 1- What is the Shaw or Shavian alphabet?

Toggle Shavian
FAQ - Shavian Additional Glosses and comments welcomed:

What is the Shaw or Shavian alphabet?
by Paul Vanderbrink [PV] Glosses by Steve Bett [SB]

PV: The Shavian or Shaw alphabet is a modern, phonetically accurate
replacement for the old Roman alphabet to write English. The Shaw
alphabet has been designed to write modern English more quickly and
effectively. The Roman alphabet was designed specifically for Latin,
over 2,600 years ago, and over time has become the alphabet of
choice for hundreds of languages. It also became the Standard
Alphabet for written English, as Latin was the language of education
and literacy, at that time that English was first written down.

The Roman Alphabet is not really an appropriate Alphabet for
English, because the English Language uses a wider variety of
sounds, than are found in the Latin and the other Romance Languages.
The 26 Letters are inadequate to represent the 40 odd English sounds.


The Roman alphabet uses over 40 vowel letters and vowel letter
combinations made up from the 7 Vowel
Letters, "a", "e", "i", "o", "u", "w" and "y". It also doubles
Consonants and adds a silent "e" to the end of the words to indicate
different vowel sounds. Unfortunately, with time, the pronunciation
of these vowel sounds in some English words have changed and not all
of those various vowel letters and vowel letter combinations
consistently represent the same sound, anymore.
The Shaw alphabet uses a system, that can handle a wider variety of
vowel sounds and their combinations and represent them accurately
and consistently.


SB: The Shaw alphabet is a non-Roman, near 100% phonemic, symbols
system suitable for writing English as it is spoken.
Alphabet Systems with one symbol per sound and no silent letters are
more compact and faster to write. Shaw saw it as a parallel
alphabet which would win converts due to its superiority. Shaw
recommended a new set of letters so the new spellings would not be
considered uneducated or ugly.


Who created the Shaw alphabet?

SB: Shaw specified the linguistic requirements for an alphabet code
as early as 1941. He wanted one unequivocal symbol for 42 English
speech sounds and he did not want it to be confused with traditional
spelling. His model was phonemic shorthand. In his will, Shaw left
most of his fortune to fund the development of a new alphabet. The
will was contested and only a small sum [less than $20,000] was made
available to carry out Shaw's proposal. The group that controlled
the funds decided that the best they could do with such limited
funds was to run a contest.

PV: A contest was announced specifying the linguistic requirements,
in 1958. Four contestants submitted alphabet schemes that met or
surpassed the requirements. The Shaw Alphabet was created from an
amalgam of these 4 proposals. Kingsley Read, an architect and
designer, provided the majority of the design. He also created a
script or cursive version of the Shaw alphabet called Quickscript.

SB: In 1941, Shaw specified the goal for his proposed British
alphabet. He himself used Pitman shorthand and was familiar with the
advantages of phonemic writing. Pitman, however, was not linear and
difficult to print. Shaw was impressed with Sweet's "current"
linear shorthand but objected to the focus on abbreviation.

Ronald Kingsley Read was impressed with the essay which appeared as
the preface to the book, The Miraculous Birth of Language, and
contacted Shaw. He showed Shaw his early attempts to build a
phonemic notation to match Shaw's requirements. Shaw encouraged his
efforts.

In his will, Shaw left most of his fortune to advancing his
linguistic ideas, in particular the development and propagation of
an improved English Alphabet. The will was successfully challenged
by lawyers representing the British Museum and other charities on
the grounds that you can't leave money to an idea. Shaw's fortune
did not amount to much until the spectacular success of the
adaptation of his play "Pygmalion", into the musical, "My Fair
Lady". Sir James Pitman negotiated a deal whereby a small amount of
the fortune, about 8,300 British Pounds, would be used to fulfill
the terms of the will.

Regards, Paul V.


P.S. Excuse the test. I lost my first draft, and had to retype
everything in again. So I did a test first.

P.P.S. I made a few small corrections, including removing the
statement describing Ronald Kingsley Read, as the sole Creator of
the Shavian Alphabet.


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
>
> a

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-12 06:18:57 #
Subject: Missing letters in Shavian?: "oor"

Toggle Shavian
Hi Lee
I agree. Although Shavian has done a tremendous job of providing a
letter for all of the Common sounds of English, there are a few
niggling situations, where another letter might be useful.
But you have to draw the line somewhere.

For example, a letter for the unvoiced w sound (wh). Most people can
hear the difference between whirl and world, but not everybody
bothers making that distinction.
Now as for the "oor" sound found in Coors beer, Boers, tours, sure,
fleur de lis and Moors. It is just not a common sound. A lot of the
time, it involves a foreign pronunciation. Also unlike the other
Rhotic letters, I don't have sense that the Vowel Ooze merged with
the Array sound. It seems more like the Dipthong vowels in the words,
liar, buyer, tower, power, Tom Sawyer, fewer where the Vowel sound is
longer, and is also represented by two Shaw letters.

Regards, Paul V.

___________________attached___________________________________

From: "Lee A. Miller" <LeeM1023@e...>
Date: Mon Mar 22, 1999 5:01 am
Subject: [shavian] Re: Missing letters?: "oor"

I don't think Shaw intended the alphabet to be exhaustive. 40
characters is
adequate to represent most of the sounds, but obviously not all the
sounds that
occur in all variants of English.

In my US midwestern English, "oor" tends to be "oo-arr" (i.e., ooze-
array).

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
To: shavian@egroups.com <shavian@egroups.com>
Cc: Dennis Falk <quozl@w...>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 10:47 PM
Subject: [shavian] Missing letters?: "oor"


Something I had noticed with Shavian I'd like to offer a thought on,
if I may:
Shavian is supposed to contain every sound in English in single
>letters, including dipthongs (incorrectly labeled "ligatures" in the
>Shavian alphabet key, as far as I'm concerned), including every "r"
>dipthong-- Except, it appears, "oor".... Am I mistaken, or is this
the
>only "r" dipthong one has to spell "u" + "r"? "Urge" is
pronounced "rr",
>not "oor"...
>
>Any other observations?
>
>D.M.Falk, aka Quozl...

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-12 15:20:40 #
Subject: Introducing Dr. Robert Richmond from archives

Toggle Shavian
From: rsrichmond@...
Date: Thu Feb 18, 1999 11:54 am
Subject: [shavian] Shaw Alphabet links page

I've posted considerably more material on my
Shaw Alphabet links page
members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html
including an introduction to the
alphabet and transliterations of Jabberwocky and a fiendish test of
the alphabet
written by GBS himself. - But still no word from the mysterious
Lionel Ghoti!

From: "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@...>
Date: 2004-11-12 15:38:00 #
Subject: More from Dr. Richmond on the Shaw Letter Hung - Ha-Ha Glitch

Toggle Shavian
From: rsrichmond@...
Date: Sun Mar 21, 1999 5:10 pm
Subject: [shavian] changing "ha-ha" and "hung"

Uh-oh, we've got a serious problem here.

Ross DeMeyere writes:
>>Last week I received a letter from David Fox at the
Friars in the UK. He brought to my attention that in
the original reading key someone made a clerical error
and swapped the characters for hung and haha.<<

DeMeyere has then gone on, single-handed, to make a change in his
font for the Shaw Alphabet.

I have no idea who the Friars may be, but neither friars nor
broilers, much less us old stewing chickens, have the authority to
make a change in the Shaw Alphabet.

It has always seemed odd to me, contrary to the rest of the Shaw
Alphabet, that in the single pair of characters "ha-ha" and "hung"
that the voiceless sound should have a descender and the voiced
sound an ascender, and I'm not surprised to learn that an error may
have occurred here. If however there was an error, it would appear
that Kingsley Read did not attempt to fix it, and this seems odd
given his careful attention to every detail of the project.

The entire printed Shaw Alphabet text of Androcles and the Lion, in
all three type styles, as well as both sides of the Reading Card,
are printed with "ha-ha" having a downward loop and "hung" having an
upward loop.

The only other publication in Shaw Alphabet using the Stephen Austin
matrices that I am aware of, Stanley Marx's printing
of "Jabberwocky" in New York in 1963 (more about this publication in
another post), uses the same convention.

Kingsley Read's later Quickscript retained the upward-looped "hung",
while substituting an entirely different character for "ha-ha".
Read's daughter Mavis Read Mottram hand-lettered both the Shaw
Alphabet and Quickscript for the University of Reading's catalog of
its Kingley Read archive in 1983, several years after Read's death,
and retains the original convention also.

Making a change in the Shaw Alphabet thus contravenes the entire
published history of the alphabet. I do not feel that either the
present Shaw Alphabet community or the Friars has the authority to
do this.

I urge Ross Demeyere to reconsider this proposed alteration, at this
early time when it can still be undone, or at least to submit it to
the entire online Shaw Alphabet community for approval before doing
it. Meanwhile I will not support this proposed alteration on my Web
site, and will if necessary change my present font-supported format
to GIF graphics in order to prevent it.

Bob Richmond
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html