Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Mitch \"Narmical\" Morris" <Narmical@...> wrote:

> All that said, the publishing industry holds that view described
> because there business model is threatened, just like music and
> iTunes, and you see how that worked out.

True, but when the bookstores have the same contempt for it as the publishers do, it doesn't bode well for people trying to build awareness through POD. The fact that POD publishers almost exclusively distribute online doesn't help matters either.

> But some real advice now, how well did the original Androcles sell?
> Use that as your gauge for if PoD is appropriate.

Last I heard, not at all. In fact, it sold so abysmally badly that the English Spelling Society was able to distribute the remaining copies to ALL of their members between April 1991 and July 2003 (source: http://www.englishspellingsociety.org/news/n/n1pt1.php). That doesn't seem to bode well for POD...

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Erin Lowe" <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:

> Not to mention that not all have large deposits. Lulu or Cafe Press
> have none at all,

I checked both of those and while Lulu is willing to allow you to sell through their site for free, it includes NO services of any kind. if you need editorship, a cover, distribution, etc., then they charge through the nose for it. Cafe Press, ironically enough, doesn't even seem to have a book section now, at least not one that I was able to find.

> Our market WILL be small, consisting of a few enthusiasts. Remember
> that I joined this group ten years ago after seeing the text in my
> senior english book.
>
> In other news, I don't have to sell my work on a primer. It's done
> in my spare time and would help, as they say, "grow the brand."

For now, yes, we are indeed few and far between. I just happened to come across Androcles by blind chance about 9 years ago (anniversary coming up on the 16th, transliteration's coming up on the 18th). While sharing texts between us is all well and good, and something that I may end up doing with this work myself if I can't publish it any other way, it effectively keeps it "in the clique" without any wider awareness. By publishing (hopefully), I hope to bring about a wider awareness among the general populace. I also have some things planned for additional marketing strategies over and above what the publishers would consider.

> Currently, I'm thinking about Treasure Island. I hate treasure
> island, but then, it's easier for a populus to read than one of
> favorites, Mostly because I love ol french swashbucklers like Dumas.

I can't say that I understand the desire to convert something that you hate. During the whole process I dropped my project multiple times and only kept coming back to it because of my love for the work. As for work size, I definitely agree wholeheartedly. Dumas's pen certainly runneth over, doesn't it? :-)

Another possible method is the one that Cory Doctorow uses. He offers his books as digital downloads for free on his website and makes money from the physical editions he sells. As long as computer screens and e-readers pale in comparison to bound books in terms of comfort and enjoyability in reading, this strategy makes sense. Once I actually have money (a resource quite rare for university students) I'm thinking of getting some of his books that I first read to the detriment of my eyes on my computer screen. The greatest threat to any distributor of information is obscurity, and having a library in Shavian available for free would do wonders in eliminating that.

Please shield your eyes while I kick a dead horse, a great way to speed up the process of transferring the classics into Shavian is to build software that does most of the work. I know there's been work on this, but it's not ready yet for things like Moby Dick (if anyone actually reads that, I got halfway through and felt like either my eyes or brain would start bleeding if I went further). If we could somehow feed words back to a central place too, a Shavian-TO dictionary could be made as well.

Whoo, good times,
-Tim

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "rubik67" <rubik67@...> wrote:
>
> Going through past messages, I came across people wanting to publish Alice In Wonderland, Dracula and a 50th Anniversary version of Androcles in the new alphabet. Just last month, I finished hand transliterating various works of Poe for exactly that reason. It was definitely a baptism of fire and blood, this one. If I'd known that I'd also have to translisterate French, Spanish, German, Italian, Latin and Ancient Greek when I first started it, I definitely would have chosen a different author. I guess the question now is, who will be published first? The race is on! :-)
>

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "tim_rice09" <tim_rice09@...> wrote:

> Another possible method is the one that Cory Doctorow uses. He
> offers his books as digital downloads for free on his website and
> makes money from the physical editions he sells. As long as
> computer screens and e-readers pale in comparison to bound books in
> terms of comfort and enjoyability in reading, this strategy makes
> sense.

I have considered that, as well as releasing the e-book through alternate means to help build awareness. I've seen extremely good and extremely bad results come out of free electronic versions. In the good case, the hard copy came first. In the poor case, it came second.

> The greatest threat to any distributor of information is obscurity,
> and having a library in Shavian available for free would do wonders
> in eliminating that.

Agreed, but for this to work, the general public needs to know about its existence, first.

> Please shield your eyes while I kick a dead horse, a great way to
> speed up the process of transferring the classics into Shavian is
> to build software that does most of the work.

Agreed. If only I'd thought of that when I began this project and knew then what I know now, even entering an entire dictionary worth of definitions with ALL alternate word forms and programming the software myself, I probably would have been published at least 5 years ago. :-/

> I know there's been work on this, but it's not ready yet for things
> like Moby Dick (if anyone actually reads that, I got halfway
> through and felt like either my eyes or brain would start bleeding
> if I went further). If we could somehow feed words back to a
> central place too, a Shavian-TO dictionary could be made as well.

The problem with that is, whose pronunciation do you go by? The standard answer is going to be "RP, of course!", but I found many words in RP to be completely incomprehensible and out of touch with reality when I was reading Androcles for the first time, in particular his pronunciations for "christian" and "centurion". To this day, I still have NO clue where those pronunciations came from.

> Whoo, good times,

Loads. :-)

I am encountering a scripting error since the new (very nicely done) home page which has both the English and the Shavian welcome. The picture of Shaw's home is missing and any efforts I make to enter text for translation are prompting a "Scripting Error" message. I am using an iMac. Anyone able to assist me on this? Thanks in advance.

Herbert Moran
herbmoran@...m

Le 12/04/11 06:27, AJT a écrit :
> I am encountering a scripting error since the new (very nicely done) home page which has both the English and the Shavian welcome. The picture of Shaw's home is missing and any efforts I make to enter text for translation are prompting a "Scripting Error" message. I am using an iMac. Anyone able to assist me on this? Thanks in advance.
>
> Herbert Moran
> herbmoran@...
>
𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑴
Hello

𐑲’𐑥 𐑩𐑓𐑮𐑧𐑛 𐑲 𐑒𐑨𐑯’𐑑 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑐 𐑚𐑦𐑒𐑪𐑟 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑 𐑯𐑴
𐑣𐑢𐑦𐑗 𐑣𐑴𐑥 𐑐𐑱𐑡 𐑘𐑿’𐑼 𐑕𐑐𐑰𐑒𐑦𐑙 𐑪𐑝. 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑
𐑮𐑦𐑥𐑧𐑥𐑚𐑼 𐑣𐑢𐑺 𐑞𐑩 𐑑𐑮𐑨𐑯𐑟𐑤𐑱𐑑𐑼 𐑿𐑟𐑛 𐑑𐑩 𐑚𐑰.
I’m afraid I can’t help because I don’t know which home page you’re
speaking of. I don’t remember where the translator used to be.

Jean-François Colson
(How could I write my name in Shavian? It's pronunciation is
approximately /ʒɑ̃.frɑ̃.swa kɔl.sõ/ in IPA.)

This might be a good time to bring up a Shavian webpage transliterater I
wrote for my self. I can transliterate almost any webpage for you. It even
modifies the links so that when you click them, the new page is
transliterated too. It fails on some complicated java script pages (like
google).

http://narmical.no-ip.org/tl.php

<http://narmical.no-ip.org/tl.php>Maybe this helps?

Thanks,
Mitch

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Jean-François Colson <jf@...> wrote:

>
>
> Le 12/04/11 06:27, AJT a écrit :
>
> > I am encountering a scripting error since the new (very nicely done) home
> page which has both the English and the Shavian welcome. The picture of
> Shaw's home is missing and any efforts I make to enter text for translation
> are prompting a "Scripting Error" message. I am using an iMac. Anyone able
> to assist me on this? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Herbert Moran
> > herbmoran@...
> >
> 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑴
> Hello
>
> 𐑲’𐑥 𐑩𐑓𐑮𐑧𐑛 𐑲 𐑒𐑨𐑯’𐑑 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑐 𐑚𐑦𐑒𐑪𐑟 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑 𐑯𐑴
> 𐑣𐑢𐑦𐑗 𐑣𐑴𐑥 𐑐𐑱𐑡 𐑘𐑿’𐑼 𐑕𐑐𐑰𐑒𐑦𐑙 𐑪𐑝. 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑
> 𐑮𐑦𐑥𐑧𐑥𐑚𐑼 𐑣𐑢𐑺 𐑞𐑩 𐑑𐑮𐑨𐑯𐑟𐑤𐑱𐑑𐑼 𐑿𐑟𐑛 𐑑𐑩 𐑚𐑰.
> I’m afraid I can’t help because I don’t know which home page you’re
> speaking of. I don’t remember where the translator used to be.
>
> Jean-François Colson
> (How could I write my name in Shavian? It's pronunciation is
> approximately /ʒɑ̃.frɑ̃.swa kɔl.sõ/ in IPA.)
>
>
>

Thank you both for the assistance. The Transliteration site looks like a keeper for sure! It does not work for my current problem but to clarify a bit; I get a problem with "Python Script failed" when I use the following link: http://shavian.org/translate/translate?t=this+is+the+time+for+all+good+men+to+come+to+the+aid+of+their+country

If I use the following link I get a page which is nearly identical to the former page that the above link took me to and where I could see a picture of Shaws Summer home and which offers me the translation box but if I try to access it, I am then lead to the above linked alert, Again!

http://shavian.org/translate/

Many thanks, again -

Herb Moran aka AJT91910@...





On Apr 12, 2011, at 11:27 AM, Mitch Narmical Morris wrote:

>
>
> This might be a good time to bring up a Shavian webpage transliterater I wrote for my self. I can transliterate almost any webpage for you. It even modifies the links so that when you click them, the new page is transliterated too. It fails on some complicated java script pages (like google).
>
> http://narmical.no-ip.org/tl.php
>
> Maybe this helps?
>
> Thanks,
> Mitch
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Jean-François Colson <jf@...> wrote:
>
> Le 12/04/11 06:27, AJT a écrit :
>
>
> > I am encountering a scripting error since the new (very nicely done) home page which has both the English and the Shavian welcome. The picture of Shaw's home is missing and any efforts I make to enter text for translation are prompting a "Scripting Error" message. I am using an iMac. Anyone able to assist me on this? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Herbert Moran
> > herbmoran@...
> >
> 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑴
> Hello
>
> 𐑲’𐑥 𐑩𐑓𐑮𐑧𐑛 𐑲 𐑒𐑨𐑯’𐑑 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑐 𐑚𐑦𐑒𐑪𐑟 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑 𐑯𐑴
> 𐑣𐑢𐑦𐑗 𐑣𐑴𐑥 𐑐𐑱𐑡 𐑘𐑿’𐑼 𐑕𐑐𐑰𐑒𐑦𐑙 𐑪𐑝. 𐑲 𐑛𐑴𐑯’𐑑
> 𐑮𐑦𐑥𐑧𐑥𐑚𐑼 𐑣𐑢𐑺 𐑞𐑩 𐑑𐑮𐑨𐑯𐑟𐑤𐑱𐑑𐑼 𐑿𐑟𐑛 𐑑𐑩 𐑚𐑰.
> I’m afraid I can’t help because I don’t know which home page you’re
> speaking of. I don’t remember where the translator used to be.
>
> Jean-François Colson
> (How could I write my name in Shavian? It's pronunciation is
> approximately /ʒɑ̃.frɑ̃.swa kɔl.sõ/ in IPA.)
>
>
>
>
>
>


The information contained in this electronic e-mail message and any document(s) accompanying this message may contain(s) information that is confidential and/or privileged. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity(ies) named in the senders list. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this message and any accompanying document(s) is strictly prohibited, and that the information and any accompanying document(s) should be deleted immediately.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "rubik67" <rubik67@...> wrote:
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Mitch \"Narmical\" Morris" <Narmical@> wrote:
>
> > But some real advice now, how well did the original Androcles sell?
> > Use that as your gauge for if PoD is appropriate.
>
> Last I heard, not at all. In fact, it sold so abysmally badly that
> the English Spelling Society was able to distribute the remaining
> copies to ALL of their members between April 1991 and July 2003
> (source: http://www.englishspellingsociety.org/news/n/n1pt1.php).
> That doesn't seem to bode well for POD...

Oops... looks like I fell victim to an error that Poe pointed out in The Sphinx, in that "a principle source of error in all human investigations [lies] in the liability of the understanding to under-rate or to over-value the importance of an object, through mere misadmeasurement of its propinquity." Apparently the ESS got hardcover copies of the book, only 265 out of a print run of 13,000. There were also 40,000 paperbacks printed with no mention of leftovers, so I guess the ESS didn't have as many members back then as I thought. (Source: http://www.englishspellingsociety.org/journals/j23/shawread.php) Given the world population at the time, that would probably be a run of about 120,000-150,000 paperbacks today. Not all that bad, all things considered. Hopefully things will go well enough through standard channels, but if not, I may just have to give POD another look.
I also erred in my estimate of when the anniversary date was. Checking back through my notes, it's actually the April 18th that I found the book and the 21st when I started my transliteration.

I have a mint condition of that Penguin paperback that I bought back in the day! Approaching 80 in June so I am not sure if my estate will value it as much as I do nonetheless, is there any market for a nicely preserved original paperback edition? I also have a few of the old Newsletters from the late 50's or early 60's.

Herb


On Apr 14, 2011, at 2:31 PM, rubik67 wrote:

> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "rubik67" <rubik67@...> wrote:
>> ---