Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Joe and Hugh,

Has anyone looked thru the archives to see if the old site has been preserved?

What was Simons original URL?

When www.unifon.org went off-line. You could for a time find the old pages.

Steve.

kOka kOla
Joe wrote:

> I too have missed these images. I've been considering doing some similar
> work of my own, though. Any suggestions?

Well... some corporate logos perhaps? Those were the most effective, because
they are recognisable to almost everybody. Simon had done Coca Cola,
McDonalds, and a few others.

Hugh B

From the home page at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet
bookcover
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet/vwp?.dir=/&.dnm=Androcles_Co
ver.jpg&.src=gr&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet/vwp%
3f.dir=/%26.dnm=Kingsley%2bRead.gif%26.src=gr
When the playwright George Bernard Shaw died in 1950, he left instructions in
his will for the creation of a new, more efficient alphabet for writing
English, with each letter representing one English sound. Part of his wealth was
set aside for its creation, and a competition was started that invited designers
from all over the world to submit proposals. When the judging was done, the
entry of Kingsley Read was chosen to become what became known as the Shaw
Alphabet (or 'Shavian').
One book, a bi-alphabetical version of Androcles and the Lion (cover shown
left) was produced, with copies sent to libraries all over the English-speaking
world. It was hoped that the alphabet would gain support through its inherent
benefits; despite attracting plenty of attention at the time, the alphabet
sadly faded into obscurity...
...until 1999, when the Shavian YahooGroup (formerly eGroups) was formed.
Since then, Shavian enthusiasts from around the world have had one place to meet,
discuss their interests, share texts, and of course converse in Shavian.
The group recently moved from its old location (the "shavian" group) to this
new group (the "shawalphabet" group) due to the moderator having vanished. You
can find the old group, along with its 6-year message archive, here.
If you are new to this group, here you will find, among other things:
Email/web-based discussion in and about the Shaw Alphabet
Fonts, software and other files that help you write, read and learn Shavian
Links to all known Shavian-related websites
To post and receive messages in Shavian, you will need the Shaw Sans 2 (TTF)
font. It is automatically e-mailed to all new members by default, but is also
available via the 'Files' section, in the 'Fonts' folder.
From another page:

Shaw was not interested in piecemeal spelling reform and turned down a
request for funds made by Pitman and Daniel Jones on behalf of the London based
Simplified Spelling Society. He was interested in alphabet reform, speed writing,
efficiency, pronunciation guide notation, and elocution.

SB: The spelling society is mainly interested in accelerating literacy and
minimizing disruption for tradspel adepts. Shorter words can be read faster
according to Valerie Yule but this is an accidental by-product of eliminating
silent letters and more phonemic spelling. Speed and efficiency were primary
goals for Shaw.

He thought perhaps that a linear phonemic shorthand would catch on and
eventually replace the Roman alphabet.

I have two URLs for his old site.

http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/9008/

What¹s the URL for that archive?

On 1/15/05 4:06 PM, "stbetta@..." <stbetta@...> wrote:

> Joe and Hugh,
>
> Has anyone looked thru the archives to see if the old site has been preserved?
>
> What was Simons original URL?
>
> When www.unifon.org <http://www.unifon.org> went off-line. You could for a
> time find the old pages.
>
> Steve.
>
> kOka kOla
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>>> > I too have missed these images. I've been considering doing some similar
>>> > work of my own, though. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Well... some corporate logos perhaps? Those were the most effective, because
>> they are recognisable to almost everybody. Simon had done Coca Cola,
>> McDonalds, and a few others.
>>
>> Hugh B

stbetta@... skribis:
>
> Does anyone know what the original keyboard assignments
> were for either the metal type or the IBM ball element?


F suspekt HAt H kIbPd lEQt fP H GmonOtFp kAstiN
moSIn hAz ben lYN lYst, but nOt HAt it hAz sepRat
kIz fP upx n lOx kEs.

--f. d.

Unfortunately Yahoo Groups only offers a set of preset colors to use. I can’t customize them.



The orange set was the closest to Androcles. There are other color schemes but they’re hideous!



Hugh B



_____

From: Joe [mailto:wurdbendur@...]
Sent: 15 January 2005 20:21
To: Shaw Alphabet; Hugh Birkenhead
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] New group home page appearance



The colors are certainly more friendly now. But the bright orange lines on the message page clash with the blue links a bit. Can those rows be made a little lighter?

Also, I’m trying out GMail now, so I might as well try the HTML messages while I’m at it.

F sxtanli hOp His wil wxk. :p
𐑲 𐑕𐑻𐑑𐑩𐑯𐑤𐑦 𐑣𐑴𐑐 𐑞𐑦𐑕 𐑢𐑦𐑤 𐑢𐑻𐑒. :𐑐

On 1/15/05 3:01 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...> wrote:

Hi group,

Please let me know what you think of the new group home page design (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet/).

Thanks

Hugh B



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Joe



Already tried it. Archive.org has the HTML page content for both old sites,
but no images for either. I've even done a thorough Google image search for
all the image names, with no luck. It seems the images have truly vanished
from the Internet.



Hugh B



_____

From: Joe [mailto:wurdbendur@...]
Sent: 15 January 2005 21:41
To: Shaw Alphabet
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] dead links to old Shavian sites



I have two URLs for his old site.

http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/9008/

What's the URL for that archive?

On 1/15/05 4:06 PM, "stbetta@..." <stbetta@...> wrote:

Joe and Hugh,

Has anyone looked thru the archives to see if the old site has been
preserved?

What was Simons original URL?

When www.unifon.org <http://www.unifon.org> <http://www.unifon.org> went
off-line. You could for a time find the old pages.

Steve.

kOka kOla

Joe wrote:

> I too have missed these images. I've been considering doing some similar
> work of my own, though. Any suggestions?

Well... some corporate logos perhaps? Those were the most effective, because
they are recognisable to almost everybody. Simon had done Coca Cola,
McDonalds, and a few others.

Hugh B





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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shawalphabet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:shawalphabet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.

Philip Newton skribis:
>
>> Does anyone know what the original keyboard assignments
>> were for either the metal type or the IBM ball element?
>
> That would indeed be useful to know.
>
> (Though did typesetting machines for metal type use a
> keyboard as such?)


Yes. The Monotype system uses two machines, a keyboard
and a caster. The keyboard machine has two keyboards in
the QWERTY layout, one for lowercase and one for caps. It
punches a wide paper tape. The paper tape is placed into the
casting machine and is used to control which letters are cast.
(It was the Monotype system that was used for _Androcles_.)

--Ph. D.

POLL results

Y Y 75% sImz t bI H mOst koman rIspons t dEt

/stIv

The poll is now set up in the poll section of Shaw alphabet
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shawalphabet/polls

POLL
1. Have you downloaded the default Shaw alphabet font, Shaw Sans 2? Y N

2. Can you read a Shavian transcription in your mail reader? Y N

3. Have you memorized the Shape - Sound correspondences? 100% 75% 50%
4. Have you memorized the keyboard symbols? Y N
Typical Response:

I'd also say "Y Y 75%". I mostly mess up "out" and "oil", since they
are merely mirror images of one another, and they're also fairly rare
phonemes. Occasionally also some other letters.
philip.newton@... writes:
while I can *read* Shavian in HTML, I can't *write* it like here.
SB: Would the HTML be the same as keyboard Shavian?

Hi Joe

I can think of lots of names for this sound.
Ergo, irksome, orangutan, early, Earl, Irving, ermine, Ursila,
urgent.

urbane is better than Urban. Much better than a-rray
There must be others.

Regards, Paul V.
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <allegrox_2000@y...> wrote:
<array> for /&r/ also seems like a poor choice for a key
word. /&'reI/
/ø'rá/ does not clearly indicate the sound in a terminal <er>
<madder> /'maed-&r/

This English sound needs a better name than Array.
The only
> word with something like this, unstressed and in initial position,
that comes to mind
> is "urbane", and that still isn't quite right. I would probably
spell it \xbEn\ for the
> quality of the vowel (at least as I pronounce it) rather than the
stress.

Hi Joe & Scott
I quite like Keyboard Shavian.
I have a few quibbles.
I would prefer "array" to be mapped to Capital R.
Capital P for OR, Capital F for Ice, Capital C for Ear,
X for Air, and x for err and Capital W for Ian are all hard to
remember, but I don't use W, C or x much any way.
Most of the other mappings are obvious or at least make some weird
kind of sense.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I agree the Namer dot is only for proper names and Nouns used in
Vocative sense or as an Ad hoc name. Not as direct replacement for
Capitalization.
In English almost any noun can be promoted to be a name.

For example, "*Dog, get off the table"
"Take *Thingamajig with you."

___________attached__________________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <allegrox_2000@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, stbetta@a... wrote:
> > /dOnt rFkql nQ frum FtiN qstDz At H spY. Display Shavian
> > /dOnt rFkql nQ frum FtiN qstDz At H spY. Shavian keyboard
map schwa-a
> > .dOnt rEkQl nq frum EtiN Qstcrz at Dc spo. Unifon keyboard
schwa-c
> > .dOnt rEkoil now frum EtiN oistarz qt Da spc. ENgliS schwa-a
> > Dónt rékoil nau frûm éting oisterz at ð spä. Webster Latin 1
[Intl
>
> A namer dot should never be used to begin a sentence. As pointed
out in the
> introduction to the Shavian edition of Androcles (as well as in the
Quikscript manual),
> it's used only to set off names, and only when they could be
confused with common
> words.
>
> > I would like to see some critiques of keyboard ENgliS.
> > Most tradspel adepts find mixed cap notations annoying, ugly, and
hard to
> > read.
> > How hard is it for sound spellers?
> > .dOnt rEkoil now frum EtiN oistarz qt Da spc.
> >
> > a for schwa is the same as Demeyere's notation so this shouldn't
be a problem.
> > How hard is it to associated q with an italic a-form?
> > c for ah is quite arbitrary and there is always a problem when
you reassign a
> > symbol.
> > IPA uses a reversed c for <awe>.
> > --Steve