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RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:

>They definitely have not expired. Copyrights expire now 75 years after the
>death of the author, so that writers who died in the 1920's might now be going
>into the public domain. However, Disney and his allies are constantly getting
>the copyright laws extended, so that probably in the future nothing will ever
>pass out of copyright.
>
>
>
Bob:

I am an attorney. Although I do not specialize in copyright law, I
believe your comment above has some inaccuracies. Some years ago U.S.
copyrights were good for 27 years and could be renewed for an additional
27 years. This explains why Stravinsky found it necessary to "revise"
The Rite of Spring in the mid-60s -- his copyright had run out. The
revisions consisted of minor changes, such as lowering a measure in the
one of the bassoon parts an octave here and there and the like. This
allowed him to claim the piece had been revised, and if you wanted the
latest composer-approved version, you till had to buy it from
Stravinsky's publisher.

My understanding is that the change that you mentioned which extended
copyrights to 75 years after the death of the author was to bring U.S.
copyright law into agreement with European copyright law (and possibly
other countries as well). Obviously, though, it is not that way
everywhere. China only pays lip service to copyright law. They appently
don't understand the concept of intellectual propertyj, or, at least,
they have no interest in seriously trying to protect it. I don't think
the comment that Disney will keep extending copyright law is accurate.
Furthermore, my understanding is that the copyright protection was
extended from a maximum of 54 years to 75 years after the author's
death. I don't believe there was ever copyright protection for a period
between those two numbers as you seemed to imply.

Paige Gabhart

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--- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:


> Here's my version, for comparison. Also, because
> I've never read that poem before, and I like it!

if V lFkt /milnz lital rEndrop poem V wUd probabli enJq
He uHDz from [nQ wI yr siks] avElabal At Yl gUd bUkstOrz.

VOr vurZan iz purfektli fFn, and mOr in kIpih wiH stAndard
spelih prAktis in His grMp, and Hus mOr Akseptabal, but F
TYt it wUd bI intrastih tM eksperimant a lital wiH Ha prAktikal
konsakwensis ov trFih tM rFt in SYskript.

basFdz He revursal ov [N] and [h], Nwic F Tihk worantad, F
wontad tM sI Nwot He razult wUd bI if won wur tM abAndan,
wiH Ha posibal eksepSan ov [D], dFgrAfs YltageHD, HAt iz, Ha
kOmpQnd vQalz [R, P, x, X] bakYz HE yr, F Tihk, tM komplikEtad
and sumNwot Qt ov skEl wiH Ha uHD letDz, and mOr difikalt ta
rId (and rFt) Nhen in sum smylD font-sFz.

Hen HAr iz Ha kwescan ov stres, An eria in Nwic it kan bI difikalt
tU bI konsistant. F wontad tU sI He razult if won wur ta asFn
propD vAlV onli tU Ha strest vqal, and Ha Swy [a] tU Yl, or mOst,
ov Ha rest. His did not antFrli wurk, NqevD.

He furst wurd ov lFn twenti-won woz an erD; it SUd ov kOrs bI
[iz], and Ha fFnal lFn SUd bI in itAliks, but F kUd not mEk His
NApan.


nq, herz anuHD:

Ha Old sElD

HAr woz wons An Old sElD mF grAndfyHD nV
NM NAd sO meni Tihz NI wontad ta dM
HAt, NwenevD NI TYt it woz tFm ta bagin,
NI kUdant bakYz ov Ha stEt NI woz in.

NI woz Siprekt, And livd on an Fland for wIks,
And NI wontad a NAt, And NI wontad sum brIks;
And NI wontad sum nets, or a lFn And sum NUks
for Ha turtalz And Tihz Nwic V rId ov in bUks.

And, Tihkih ov His, NI ramemburd a Tih
Nwic NI wontad (for wotD) And HAt woz a sprih;
And NI TYt HAt ta tYlk tM NId lUk for, And kIp
(if NI fQnd it) a gOt, or sum cikans And SIp.

Hen, bakYz ov Ha weHD, NI wontad a Nut
wiH a dOr (ta kum in bF) Nwic opand And Sut
(wiH a Jurk, Nwic woz Vsfal if snEks wur abQt),
And a veri stroh lok ta kIp sAvaJez Qt.

NI bagAn on Ha fiS-NUks, And Nwen NId bagun
NI dasFdad NI kUdant bakYz ov Ha sun.
sO NI nV Nwot NI Yt ta bagin wiH, And TAt
woz ta find, or ta mEk, a lyrJ sun-stopih NAt.

NI woz mEkih Ha Nat wiH sum lIvz from a trI,
Nwen NI TYt, --Fm Az Not Az a bodi kAn bI,
And Fv noTih ta tEk for mF teribal Turst;
so Fel lUk for a sprih, And Fal lUk for it furst.--

Hen NI TYt az NI styrtad, --O, dir And o, dir!
Fal bI lOnli tamorO wiH nObodi Ner!--
sO NI med in Niz nOt-bUk a kupal ov nOts:
--F must furst fFnd sum cikans-- And --nO, F mIn gOts--

NI NAd Just sIn a gOt (Nwic NI nV bF Ha SEp)
Nwen NI TYt, --but F must NAv a bOt for askEp.

but a bOt mInz a sEal, Nwic mInz nIdalz And Tred;
sO Fd betD sit dQn And mEk nIdalz insted.--

NI bagAn on a nIdal, but TYt Az NI wurkt,
HAt, if His woz an Fland Nwer sAvaJaz lurkt,
sitih sEf in Niz Nut Nid NAv noTih ta fir,
NwerAz nQ HE mFt sudanli brIH in Niz iar!

sO NI TYt ov Niz Nut ... And NI TYt ov Niz bOt,
And Niz NAt And Niz brIks, And Niz cikans And gOt,
And Ha NUks (for Niz fUd) And Ha sprih (for Niz Turst) ...
but NI nevD kUd Tihk Nwic NI Yt ta dM furst.

And sO in Ha end NI did noTih At Yl,
but bAskt on Ha Sihal rApt up in a SYl.
And F Tihk it waz dredfal Ha wE NI baNEvd--
NI did noTih but bAskih until NI woz sEvd!

/E. E. miln, 1926







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--- In shavian@...,
--- "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...> wrote:

> Waiting at the Window, a poem by A. A. Milne
> hQ kum V'v Vzd 'h' insted v 'N' n vFs vxsa?

Ha Asparat [Ec] iz unvqst and Ha nEzal sufiks [ng]
iz vqst, E dM not sI NQ His kAn bI danFd or NwF it
SUd bI.

ragyrdz,
dSep







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Hi Shep

I think you are carrying internal consistency a step too far.
As I mentioned earlier it doesn't make Phonetic sense
to match the "huNG" and "Ha-Ha" letters.
And given that they are illogically matched in the first place,
to make any assumptions based on the voiced/unvoiced pair
relationship is quite
presumptuous. And it is putting the cart before the Horse.
I could just as easily reason that "huNG" should be a central
character, like Mem and Noon, the other 2 nasal sounds, based on
phonetic consistency alone.

Yours, truly Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., "dshepx" <dshep@g...> wrote:
> --- In shavian@...,
> --- "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
>
> > Waiting at the Window, a poem by A. A. Milne
> > hQ kum V'v Vzd 'h' insted v 'N' n vFs vxsa?
>
> Ha Asparat [Ec] iz unvqst and Ha nEzal sufiks [ng]
> iz vqst, E dM not sI NQ His kAn bI danFd or NwF it
> SUd bI.
>
> ragyrdz,
> dSep




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--- In shavian@..., "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
wrote:
> Hi Shep

> I could just as easily reason that "huNG" should be a central
> character, like Mem and Noon, the other 2 nasal sounds, based on
> phonetic consistency alone.
>
> Yours, truly Paul V.
>
>

Fine with me if some other way were to be found to indicate /ng/,
but /h/ remains and will always be voiceless. Would you suggest otherwise ?

regards,
dshep




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Hi Shep

First, if you want to make changes, you have to differentiate the
Revised Alphabet by giving it a new name. (i.e. Shavian2000)
It get confusing otherwise.

So if you need a centrally oriented character for "huNG", why don't
you use the Tilde "~" sized to more or less the same size as
the "Mem" and "Noon" symbols. It would look a little similar, but
with a recognizably different orientation. Because "huNG" and "Noon"
are more similar sounding, it might be even better to make the
Tilde "~" represent "Mem" sound and then use the freed up "Mem"
symbol to represent "huNG". Then "huNG" and "Noon" Shaw2 letters
would be an obvious pair.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I have a personal interest in producing a Revised Shaw
Alphabet, that is more compatible with American English
Pronunciation. I have an agenda, shall we say.

__________________________attached_______________

--- In shavian@..., dshep@g... wrote:
> --- In shavian@..., "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink@s...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Shep
>
> > I could just as easily reason that "huNG" should be a central
> > character, like Mem and Noon, the other 2 nasal sounds, based on
> > phonetic consistency alone.
> >
> > Yours, truly Paul V.
> >
> >
>
> Fine with me if some other way were to be found to indicate /ng/,
> but /h/ remains and will always be voiceless. Would you suggest
otherwise ?
>
> regards,
> dshep




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Hi Paul and Shep,

I'm one of those major supporters of the Original Shavian. Though I also support Quickscript, as the cursive of Shavian. And Paul, I still would like to see your revision of the Shaw Alphabet.
But most of all I am an Original Shavian fan and user. Shavian is an eloquent way of writing English. Sometime next month I will send an essay to this Group on my usage of Shavian.

thanks,

Carl

pvandenbrink@... wrote:

Hi Shep

First, if you want to make changes, you have to differentiate the
Revised Alphabet by giving it a new name. (i.e. Shavian2000)
It get confusing otherwise.

So if you need a centrally oriented character for "huNG", why don't
you use the Tilde "~" sized to more or less the same size as
the "Mem" and "Noon" symbols. It would look a little similar, but
with a recognizably different orientation. Because "huNG" and "Noon"
are more similar sounding, it might be even better to make the
Tilde "~" represent "Mem" sound and then use the freed up "Mem"
symbol to represent "huNG". Then "huNG" and "Noon" Shaw2 letters
would be an obvious pair.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I have a personal interest in producing a Revised Shaw
Alphabet, that is more compatible with American English
Pronunciation. I have an agenda, shall we say.

__________________________attached_______________

--- In shavian@..., dshep@g... wrote:
> --- In shavian@..., "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink@s...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Shep
>
> > I could just as easily reason that "huNG" should be a central
> > character, like Mem and Noon, the other 2 nasal sounds, based on
> > phonetic consistency alone.
> >
> > Yours, truly Paul V.
> >
> >
>
> Fine with me if some other way were to be found to indicate /ng/,
> but /h/ remains and will always be voiceless. Would you suggest
otherwise ?
>
> regards,
> dshep



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12/17/03 5:30:45 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:

> Hi Paul and Shep,
>
> I'm one of those major supporters of the Original Shavian. Though I also
> support Quickscript, as the cursive of Shavian. And Paul, I still would
> like to see your revision of the Shaw Alphabet.
> But most of all I am an Original Shavian fan and user. Shavian is an
> eloquent way of writing English. Sometime next month I will send an essay
> to this Group on my usage of Shavian.
>
> thanks,
>
> Carl

Carl, since you mention Quickscript, do you know if there has been any effort to
get an implementation for Quickscript accepted by the Unicode consortium?

Ethan






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Yay Carl!

I am yet another of the staunch supporters of the original form with
the addition of the /hw/ sound in a form already described. That is the
only revision americans need. Unlike the inbred, backwards rednecks I
am forced to deal with here in upper east tennessee, most americans,
once the problematic differences are explained, could retain some
understanding of it.

That being said, I am also willing to keep an open mind about it, or
try to. Just be certain that in your revisions that the best parts of
shavian are not lost.

--Star

--- carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:
> Hi Paul and Shep,
>
> I'm one of those major supporters of the Original Shavian. Though I
> also support Quickscript, as the cursive of Shavian. And Paul, I
> still would like to see your revision of the Shaw Alphabet.
> But most of all I am an Original Shavian fan and user. Shavian is
> an eloquent way of writing English. Sometime next month I will send
> an essay to this Group on my usage of Shavian.
>
> thanks,
>
> Carl


=====
The Piscean Warrior:
Protector of the Innocent
Defender of the Weak
Wanderer of the Off

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