Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

hF /dAna

brAvO! it wxkt. it iz vXI nFs t sI yD fxst mesaJ ritan in /SYvWn.

HANks fP AnsDiN mF kwetyunz. it iz Just nFs t nO hM F Am tykiN t.

bF H wE, yP speliN wuz vXI klC in /SYvWn n kwFt simalD t mF On.

H OnlI wxd HAt F sY HAt F sE difrentlI, wuz H wxd "kwestjun" .

it iz lukI V YlredI lxnd abQt H /Swy. it iz prYbublI H bigast stumbliN fP nV lxrnxz. I wuz lukI n hAd a /liNgwistiks kPs in VnavDsatI HAt eksplEnd it Yl t mI. F dOnt TiNk an PdinxI /fYniks kPs wUd kuvD it.

F dM sum tIciN t. is just tMtDriN Adults hM nevD fUlI lxrnd t rId. yP bIing a fifT grEd tIcD, wUd bI a lyt hRdD. F AdmFD v just fP H enDJI levalz HAt R rIkwFDd t dM it. dM HE tIc /fYniks in yD skMal?

enIwE it iz nFs t mIt V. fIal frI t cAt enItFm.

rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

/pI. /es. F Vz "yD" n "yP" intDcEnJablI. F hAvent figDd Qt wic wun wxks betD, yet.

___________atAct________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Dana C Durkee" <danadurkee@y...> wrote:
>
> TEnks fP yl jP welkamiN koments.
>
> it iz mF hOp HAt V R rIdiN His in /SEvWn, SOiN TAt F wuz Ebal t folO jP dDekSanz fP pOstiN in /SevWn. F hAd prIvIuslI dQnlOdad H fonts n hAd dun sum tFpiN in /SEvWn, sO HAt pRt wuz IzI.
>
> rIgRdiN mF nEm, jes, F Am a gF. t mF grEt frustrESan F hAv ofan rIsIvd mEl adrest t /mis /dEna /dxkI. but F hAv rIfVzd t let HAt hApan t mE tM sunz. He R nEmd /dEvad n /mATV.
>
> n Az t H kwestSan abQt H Swy, F dOnt nO wX F lxnd abQt it. it wuz a loN tFm agO. but F dM nO (Az a kxant fifT grEd tIcD) HAt it iz tyt in QD skMlz lENgwiJ Rts prOgram tUdE.
>
> hQ wuz HAt fP mF fxst pOstiN??!!
>

hF /sxk

hQ iz it gOiN?

HANks agEn fP yD help. it iz vXI nFs t bI Ebal t rFt in /SYvWn

in H /SY Alfabet fPam.

Az fP yD kwestyun abQt H wxd "EJad", insted v "EJd",

HAt is just H wE H wxd iz prOnQnst in the pOam t mEk evDTiN rFm.

rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

______________atAct______________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
>
The "u" sound of "up" is clear and distinctive and a little longer.
> The Schwa or Ado is a minimal vowel sound, very short. I honestly
> can't tell if it is closer to the "u" sound or the "eh sound
> of "extra" (egg).
>
> There are a couple of Shaw vowel letter pairs that I do only
> distinguish by length.
> Ah/Awe
> Array/Urge(Err)
> Both sound exactly the same to my, ear, but Awe and Urge are
> distinctly longer.

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:29:51 UT

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On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:18 PM, stbetta@... wrote:

> In the early 1960's there was a Twilight zone episode where all of the
> street signs were written in Unifon.  People found it quite odd but
> compare Unifon to Shavian.  Unifon looks odd but Shavian looks like a
> foreign language.  LIF = lFf

Shavian may have more new letters to learn, but it certainly looks
nicer than that EnGLis (at first I thought it was ENgliS with the case
of all the letters reversed... that would have been easier to read).
The problem with any mixed-case system is that caps and lowercase are
not meant to be mixed. The texture of words is frequently disturbed by
ridiculous variation in letter width, which is distracting to the eye.
It would most certainly be more legible in a monospaced font, which is
probably a sign of poor alphabet design.
Read's letters are all designed to fit together neatly, producing words
that can be read more quickly and easily once the alphabet is learned.
Granted, there's a somewhat steeper learning curve, but it's worth it.
That said, I like Shavian much more in print than handwritten--I would
probably feel just the opposite about ENgliS if I were to write it, but
I don't use it and don't intend to.

Regards,
Joseph Spicer
·𐑡𐑴𐑕𐑧𐑓 ·𐑕𐑐𐑲𐑕𐑼

on /nOvembD 22, 2005, At 12:29 /p/m, /filip nVtan rOt:

> F hOp it woz Just H fxst v menI mP t kum -- gMdnis nOz F kMd Vz H
> prAktis :)

F'l sekand HAt n welkam t H grMp. HX'z nO nId t fIl intimidEtad bF QD
ekspiriens--mOst v wot F nO abQt H subJekt F lxnd hC, n V sIm t hAv a
gUd hAndal on /SEvWn.

Regards,
Joseph Spicer
·𐑡𐑴𐑕𐑧𐑓 ·𐑕𐑐𐑲𐑕𐑼

hE /pYl, HiNz R ylrFt on mF end.

Az fP H "EJad" HiN, F wuzant kwescaniN it, mIrlI ofDiN fPT mF nPmal pronunsIESan v H wxd.

ylsO, F nOtisd V miksd up j and y a fV tFmz n akEZanalI speld wxdz in /rOman insted v /SyvWn. Just wynt t mEk Sx Var awEr.

ylsO, hE HX /dEna! jP /SyvWn lUkz grEt, hOp t sI mP pOsts frum V sMn.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
>
>
> hF /sxk
>
> hQ iz it gOiN?
>
> HANks agEn fP yD help. it iz vXI nFs t bI Ebal t rFt in /SYvWn
>
> in H /SY Alfabet fPam.
>
> Az fP yD kwestyun abQt H wxd "EJad", insted v "EJd",
>
> HAt is just H wE H wxd iz prOnQnst in the pOam t mEk evDTiN rFm.
>
> rigRdz, /pYl /vI.
>
> ______________atAct______________
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" pvandenbrink11@h... wrote:
> >
> The "u" sound of "up" is clear and distinctive and a little longer.
> > The Schwa or Ado is a minimal vowel sound, very short. I honestly
> > can't tell if it is closer to the "u" sound or the "eh sound
> > of "extra" (egg).
> >
> > There are a couple of Shaw vowel letter pairs that I do only
> > distinguish by length.
> > Ah/Awe
> > Array/Urge(Err)
> > Both sound exactly the same to my, ear, but Awe and Urge are
> > distinctly longer.
>

These 3 Alphabets all take the Roman Alphabet and extend it with
extra letters. They all make good teaching Alphabets, with the
ultimate intention of transfering what is learnt back over to the
archaic original Roman based spelling.

But even with that limited objective, they have some design problems.
For example, UNIFON only uses the Capital Letters, and many of the
additional letters are easily confused. A number of them can't be
easily distinguhed. (2 letters for the 2 TH sounds) A number of them
have bar going across the bottom. this can be very confusing when
writing on lined paper. And since it has only 40 letters, it doesn't
represent all the English sounds (i.e. J sound of Genre, and treasure)
If Shavian wasn't available, I'd probably go with the Older Pitman
Phonetic Alphabet. With 42 letters, It does a little better job of
representing the English sound system.
Still neither Pitman or UNIFON has a letter to for the Schwa sound.
Shavian has Ado.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. Shavian is a breakthru to the next level. It breaks the bonds to
the obsolete Romann Alphabet. It is an ingenous internal consistent
logical system, which anybody can learn.
_______________________attached________________________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Spicer <wurdbendur@g...>
wrote:
  Unifon looks odd but Shavian looks like a
foreign language.

> Granted, there's a somewhat steeper learning curve, but I think
Shavian is worth it.
> That said, I like Shavian much more in print than handwritten--I
would
> probably feel just the opposite about ENgliS if I were to write it,
but
> I don't use it and don't intend to.
>
> Regards,
> Joseph Spicer
> ·ð`¡ð`´ð`•ð`§ð`" ·ð`•ð`ð`²ð`•ð`¼
>

On the contrary, Unifon has both sounds. The J sound you mention is
written a backward Z, and the schwa is spelled with U. It used to have
a reversed E that was equivalent to u up, but in the revision that's
now given at Unifon.org, it's been joined with an R to make a new
letter equivalent to D array.
Regards,
Joseph Spicer
·𐑡𐑴𐑕𐑧𐑓 ·𐑕𐑐𐑲𐑕𐑼

On Nov 22, 2005, at 11:43 PM, paul vandenbrink wrote:

> And since it has only 40 letters, it doesn't
> represent all the English sounds (i.e. J sound of Genre, and treasure)
> If Shavian wasn't available, I'd probably go with the Older Pitman
> Phonetic Alphabet. With 42 letters, It does a little better job of
> representing the English sound system.
> Still neither Pitman or UNIFON has a letter to for the Schwa sound.
> Shavian has Ado.

> Regards, Paul V.
> P.S. Shavian is a breakthru to the next level. It breaks the bonds to
>
> the obsolete Romann Alphabet. It is an ingenous internal consistent
> logical system, which anybody can learn.

In addition, Paul, you forgot to mention a major failing of two of the
others, that they use the Roman Alphabet. Like learning Hiragana to
read Japanese or Cyrillic to read Russian, it is, in my opinion, a good
idea to learn Shavian to read English. Mostly, as we have pointed out
in the past, because English is mainly a Gallic language, with it's
bases in German (Anglo Saxon) and Norman French (a mix of Norse and
Gallic), with only a brush of Latin, greek, and maybe a couple of
others, but not so much left that we should write in only the Roman
alphabet (a greek word).


I think my comp may be having trouble with the fonts, but that may be
because I don't recall downloading them in the year since I've had my
computer. :) Silly me. I handwrite most of my shavian.

--Star

=========
http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad

An idle duck is the devil's playground.



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Hi Joseph
My mistake. The backwards "Z" is used in Pitman's Alphabet to represent
a Roman S at the end of the word, which might be pronounced as either a
Z-sound or the more common S-sound. I assumed it had the same meaning
in UNIFON.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I am glad to hear that UNIFON is adding in an additional letter
for the Array sound.
______________________attached_______________________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Spicer <wurdbendur@g...>
wrote:
>
> On the contrary, Unifon has both sounds. The J sound you mention is
> written a backward Z, and the schwa is spelled with U. It used to
have
> a reversed E that was equivalent to u up, but in the revision that's
> now given at Unifon.org, it's been joined with an R to make a new
> letter equivalent to D array.