Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Glad to see you got it working, Paul. I had a *lot* of trouble reading what you wrote, though, a lot of the spellings seemed just completely off, or as though you'd just spelled them with Roman letters in a Shavian font.

thigh-ash-hung-kick-so seems like a really odd way to spell "thanks," for example. I don't think "Oh" in Shavian would need the h (just oak, not oak-haha), either.

The switch from EJad to Egad threw me off. As did "little" (lit-t-leh the way you've got it there).

Maybe I'm just nitpicking. Correct me if I'm wrong.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
>
>
> grEt. it wxks. it iz abQt tFm teknYlaJI kYt up wiT H /SYvWn Alfabet.
>
> TANks agEn, /sxk
>
> -----------------atAct----------------------------------------------------
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > hF /sxk
> >
> > TANks fP H help rFtiN in /SYvWn letxz. mF I-mEal prOgram duzant sapPt /SY fynts.
> >
> > hC iz a fV lFnz of dYgDal abQt sitiN on a gEt bF /lMas /kXal. hI didant balIv in tFtalz. its Just a test.
> >
> > Fal tel V evrI TiN F cAn.
> >
> > HXz little t rIlEt.
> >
> > F sY an EJad EJad mAn.
> >
> > a sitiN yn a gEt.
> >
> > hM R V Oh Egad mAn. F sed
> >
> > n hQ iz it V liv?
> >
> > n hiz AnsD trikald TrM mF hed,
> >
> > lFk wytD TrM a siv.
> >
> > rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

Hi Circ
You are right. I made a couple/triple mistakes in my rush to try it
out.
Oh should be just O
Aged should always be EJad
little should be lital

rigRdz, /pYl /vI.

P.S. How would you spell "Thanks"
___________________attached_________________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "circtf" <circtf@y...> wrote:
> thigh-ash-hung-kick-so seems like a really odd way to
spell "thanks," for example. I don't think "Oh" in Shavian would need
the h (just oak, not oak-haha), either.
>
> The switch from EJad to Egad threw me off. As did "little" (lit-t-
leh the way you've got it there).
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > grEt. it wxks. it iz abQt tFm teknYlaJI kYt up wiT H /SYvWn
Alfabet.
> >
> > TANks agEn, /sxk
> >
> > -----------------atAct--------------------------------------------
--------
> > --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > hF /sxk
> > >
> > > TANks fP H help rFtiN in /SYvWn letxz. mF I-mEal prOgram duzant
sapPt /SY fynts.
> > >
> > > hC iz a fV lFnz of dYgDal abQt sitiN on a gEt bF /lMas /kXal.
hI didant balIv in tFtalz. its Just a test.
> > >
> > > Fal tel V evrI TiN F cAn.
> > >
> > > HXz lital t rIlEt.
> > >
> > > F sY an EJad EJad mAn.
> > >
> > > a sitiN yn a gEt.
> > >
> > > hM R V O EJad mAn. F sed
> > >
> > > n hQ iz it V liv?
> > >
> > > n hiz AnsD trikald TrM mF hed,
> > >
> > > lFk wytD TrM a siv.
> > >
> > > rigRdz, /pYl /vI.
>

No big deal. As for aged, it's usually pronounced "EJd" here, without
the second syllable. So there's another alternative.

As for thanks, I'd use HAnks.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink11@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi Circ
> You are right. I made a couple/triple mistakes in my rush to try it
> out.
> Oh should be just O
> Aged should always be EJad
> little should be lital
>
> rigRdz, /pYl /vI.
>
> P.S. How would you spell "Thanks"

Hello to you all!

I feel like I already know a few of you, as I have been reading posts
on this site for some time. Like many of you, I became familiar with
Shavian in high school back in the 1960's. I have always been
interested in language and codes and such, so when I saw a copy of
Androcles and the Lion in Shavian in paperback all those many years
ago, I purchased it. I immediately found a new hobby, and in a
relatively short time became fairly proficient at both reading and
writing in Shavian.

Well, times change, and the interest passed, and eventually (sadly
now!) the book has disappeared too. So imagine my surprise, when I
found last spring that Shavian still exists, at least at a few sites
on the internet. It was not too long after that that I found also
your group, and I have been reading the posts and reteaching myself to
read and write in Shavian characters ever since.

You might be wondering why it took me so long to acutally join the
group. I suppose it was because I initially felt a bit intimidated at
the scholarship and phonetic expertise of many of the members. I
didn't feel that I would have much to add (and I'm still not convinced
that I do), but it was great fun and very interesting to read and then
understand the various posts. Having Newbie come out finally helped
me to decide to be brave and jump in.

I grew up in the great Pacific Northwest, near Seattle, and have lived
most of life in the Western U.S. (Washington, California, Utah). I
speak what I consider to be pretty generic American English. I am one
of those speakers (or listeners) that can distinguish little or no
difference between the ado, ah and awe sounds. To be honest, I
thought that the ado sound was the unstressed schwa, which to me
sounds basically the same as the up sound. In my writing I have used
the ado as a schwa and the up sound to represent that sound in other
words.

I was going to close with a short sentence in Shavian, as Newbie has
done recently, but I just discoved I don't know how to make this post
change fonts into Shavian. So I guess that is my first
question...What do I have to do to post in Shavian?

Looking forward to getting to know all of you better,

dcdurkee

P.S. I especially enjoy it when you post in Shavian and force me to
work hard at reading it.

Am I Newbie? =D You can call me Circ.

I know exactly what you mean about being a little intimidated to join up. I rarely know what these guys are really talking about, and unfortunately this occasionally leads to some misunderstandings, but it's rarely a big deal.

As for posting in Shavian, if you're using the group, it's actually pretty easy. First, you need to click the link that says "Rich-Text Editor (Beta)," which will replace the usual message box with a new one. Once that's up, go ahead and type your message as usual, as though you were using a Shavian font (I recommend Ghoti Fingers - in the Files section - for learning to use the Shavian fonts). Once you're done, check the box that says "View HTML Source," which will show the raw HTML of your post. Find the parts you want to have in Shavian, and use <font face="Shaw Sans No. 2" size="3">Shavian text here</font>. Then, uncheck View HTML Source, and the parts you surrounded will now be in Shavian.

Am F nMbI? V kAn kol mI /sxk.

F nO ekzAktlI wut V mIn abQt bIiN a lital intimidEtad t Jqn up. F rErlI nO wut HIz gFz R rIalI tokiN abQt, n unfPcanatlI His akEZinalI lIdz t sum misundarstAndiNz, but itz rXlI a big dIl.

Az fP pOstiN in /SyvWn, if Var VziN H grMp, itz akCUalI pritI IzI. fxst, V nId t klik H link HAt sez "Rich-Text Editor (Beta)," wic wil replEs H VZMal mesaJ boks wiT a nM wUn. wUns HAts up, gO ahed n tFp yP mesaJ az VZMal, az HO V wD VziN a /SyvWn font (F rekamend Ghoti Fingers - in H fFlz sekSan - fP lxniN t Vz H /SyvWn fonts). wUns Var dun, cek H boks HAt sez "View HTML Source," wic wil SO H rY /html/ v jP pOst. fFnd H pRts V wynt t hAv in /SyvWn, n Vz <font face="Shaw Sans No. 2">/SyvWn tekst hIr</font>. Hen, uncek View HTML Source, n H pRts V sDQndad wil nQ bI in /SyvWn.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Dana C Durkee" <danadurkee@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello to you all!
>
> I feel like I already know a few of you, as I have been reading posts
> on this site for some time. Like many of you, I became familiar with
> Shavian in high school back in the 1960's. I have always been
> interested in language and codes and such, so when I saw a copy of
> Androcles and the Lion in Shavian in paperback all those many years
> ago, I purchased it. I immediately found a new hobby, and in a
> relatively short time became fairly proficient at both reading and
> writing in Shavian.
>
> Well, times change, and the interest passed, and eventually (sadly
> now!) the book has disappeared too. So imagine my surprise, when I
> found last spring that Shavian still exists, at least at a few sites
> on the internet. It was not too long after that that I found also
> your group, and I have been reading the posts and reteaching myself to
> read and write in Shavian characters ever since.
>
> You might be wondering why it took me so long to acutally join the
> group. I suppose it was because I initially felt a bit intimidated at
> the scholarship and phonetic expertise of many of the members. I
> didn't feel that I would have much to add (and I'm still not convinced
> that I do), but it was great fun and very interesting to read and then
> understand the various posts. Having Newbie come out finally helped
> me to decide to be brave and jump in.
>
> I grew up in the great Pacific Northwest, near Seattle, and have lived
> most of life in the Western U.S. (Washington, California, Utah). I
> speak what I consider to be pretty generic American English. I am one
> of those speakers (or listeners) that can distinguish little or no
> difference between the ado, ah and awe sounds. To be honest, I
> thought that the ado sound was the unstressed schwa, which to me
> sounds basically the same as the up sound. In my writing I have used
> the ado as a schwa and the up sound to represent that sound in other
> words.
>
> I was going to close with a short sentence in Shavian, as Newbie has
> done recently, but I just discoved I don't know how to make this post
> change fonts into Shavian. So I guess that is my first
> question...What do I have to do to post in Shavian?
>
> Looking forward to getting to know all of you better,
>
> dcdurkee
>
> P.S. I especially enjoy it when you post in Shavian and force me to
> work hard at reading it.
>

On 11/19/05, Dana C Durkee <danadurkee@...> wrote:
> Hello to you all!

Welcome, Dana!

> I am one
> of those speakers (or listeners) that can distinguish little or no
> difference between the ado, ah and awe sounds. To be honest, I
> thought that the ado sound was the unstressed schwa, which to me
> sounds basically the same as the up sound. In my writing I have used
> the ado as a schwa and the up sound to represent that sound in other
> words.

For me, ado is indeed unstressed schwa, and up is stressed schwa. They
are, arguable, not separate phonemes in my 'lect, since what it sounds
like is determined by stress.

If you have a difference in pronunciation between "mention" and "men
shun", then "-tion" has ado while "shun" has up (for me, the stresses
are 'mention vs. 'men 'shun, so the second syllable is stressed in the
second phrase but unstressed in the first).
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

Hi Dana & Circ
Before you can write Shavian Letters in the Yahoo Forum, you will
need to load and install the Shaw Font on to your computer and learn
the Shaw Letter Keyboard mapping.
First things first.
To load the Shaw Font (Shaw Sans 2 is the name) go to
www.shavian.org which has an option to download the font.
Do you know how to install a new font?
Once it is installed you can try it out by going to accessories,
click on notepad, set the font and try it out inside Notepad.
Once that is working go on to Circ's instructions.
Regards, Paul V.
__________________attached___________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "circtf" <circtf@y...> wrote:
> I know exactly what you mean about being a little intimidated to
join up. I rarely know what these guys are really talking about, and
unfortunately this occasionally leads to some misunderstandings, but
it's rarely a big deal.
>
> As for posting in Shavian, if you're using the group, it's actually
pretty easy. First, you need to click the link that says "Rich-Text
Editor (Beta)," which will replace the usual message box with a new
one. Once that's up, go ahead and type your message as usual, as
though you were using a Shavian font (I recommend Ghoti Fingers - in
the Files section - for learning to use the Shavian fonts). Once
you're done, check the box that says "View HTML Source," which will
show the raw HTML of your post. Find the parts you want to have in
Shavian, and use <font face="Shaw Sans No. 2" size="3">Shavian text
here</font>. Then, uncheck View HTML Source, and the parts you
surrounded will now be in Shavian.

Circ

Hi Circ
Like most Native Language speakers, I can hear a clear difference.
It is not just stress, but the length and clearness of the sound.
The "u" sound of "up" is clear and distinctive and a little longer.
The Schwa or Ado is a minimal vowel sound, very short. I honestly
can't tell if it is closer to the "u" sound or the "eh sound
of "extra" (egg).

There are a couple of Shaw vowel letter pairs that I do only
distinguish by length.
Ah/Awe
Array/Urge(Err)
Both sound exactly the same to my, ear, but Awe and Urge are
distinctly longer.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I can't consistently distinguish the sound of "Ah" and "On",
and since "On" is more a British Vowel, I generally just use "Ah".
___________________attached______________________________
Circ wrote
> > I am one of those speakers (or listeners)
> > that can distinguish little or no difference
> > between the ado, ah and awe sounds. To be honest, I
> > thought that the ado sound was the unstressed schwa, which to me
> > sounds basically the same as the up sound. In my writing I have
> > used the ado as a schwa and the up sound
> > to represent that sound in other words.

Philip wrote:
> For me also, ado is indeed unstressed schwa, and up is stressed
schwa. They
> are, arguable, not separate phonemes in my 'lect, since what it
sounds like is determined by stress.
>
> If you have a difference in pronunciation between "mention" and "men
> shun", then "-tion" has ado while "shun" has up
> (for me, the stresses
> are 'mention vs. 'men 'shun, so the second syllable is stressed in
> the second phrase but unstressed in the first).
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>

Hi Dana
Welcome to the group.
Dana is one of those names that can be male or female,
So please excuse me as I am going to assume that you are
male, unless you correct me.

I hope you will get interested again in Shavian writing.
Does the picture of the Androcles remind you of your old copy.
We all find it quite spiffy.
A Midwest or Western American English accent is actually quite
helpful, as a lot of us write that way. The Vowel scheme is little
smaller
and simpler.

Hugh has been trying to get us to use more Shavian letters in
our posts, so I will add a few more samples of the poetry of
Robert Frost and Lewis Carol in my future posts.
Please forgive if my renditions are in anyway less than accurate.
I can't help myself from making tiny improvements.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. And above all, don't be intimidated. We are a pretty quiet bunch.
Except for Star, of course.
P.P.S. How did you learn to recognise a Schwa in the first place?
___________attached____________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Dana C Durkee"
<danadurkee@y...> wrote:
> Hello to you all!
>
> I feel like I already know a few of you, as I have been reading
posts
> on this site for some time. Like many of you, I became familiar
with
> Shavian in high school back in the 1960's. I have always been
> interested in language and codes and such, so when I saw a copy of
> Androcles and the Lion in Shavian in paperback all those many years
> ago, I purchased it. I immediately found a new hobby, and in a
> relatively short time became fairly proficient at both reading and
> writing in Shavian.
>
> Well, times change, and the interest passed, and eventually (sadly
> now!) the book has disappeared too. So imagine my surprise, when I
> found last spring that Shavian still exists, at least at a few sites
> on the internet. It was not too long after that that I found also
> your group, and I have been reading the posts and reteaching myself
to read and write in Shavian characters ever since.
>
> I grew up in the great Pacific Northwest, near Seattle, and have
lived
> most of life in the Western U.S. (Washington, California, Utah). I
> speak what I consider to be pretty generic American English.
> I am one > of those speakers (or listeners)
> that can distinguish little or no
> difference between the ado, ah and awe sounds. To be honest, I
> thought that the ado sound was the unstressed schwa, which to me
> sounds basically the same as the up sound.
> In my writing I have used
> the ado as a schwa and the up sound to represent that sound in other
> words.

TEnks fP yl jP welkamiN koments.

it iz mF hOp HAt V R rIdiN His in /SEvWn, SOiN TAt F wuz Ebal t folO jP dDekSanz fP pOstiN in /SevWn. F hAd prIvIuslI dQnlOdad H fonts n hAd dun sum tFpiN in /SEvWn, sO HAt pRt wuz IzI.

rIgRdiN mF nEm, jes, F Am a gF. t mF grEt frustrESan F hAv ofan rIsIvd mEl adrest t /mis /dEna /dxkI. but F hAv rIfVzd t let HAt hApan t mE tM sunz. He R nEmd /dEvad n /mATV.

n Az t H kwestSan abQt H Swy, F dOnt nO wX F lxnd abQt it. it wuz a loN tFm agO. but F dM nO (Az a kxant fifT grEd tIcD) HAt it iz tyt in QD skMlz lENgwiJ Rts prOgram tUdE.

hQ wuz HAt fP mF fxst pOstiN??!!