YahooGroup Archive

Toggle Shavian

Here here! cheers! hooray! *Puts a party hat on her picture of Shaw on her desk* Happy B-Day, chief!

--Star

==========
"A hundred years from now it is very likely that _The Jumping Frog_ alone will be remembered."
-- Harry Thurston Peck (Editor of "The Bookman") on Mark Twain, January 1901.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad

----- Original Message ----
From: dshep <dshep@...>
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:29 PM
Subject: [shawalphabet] re: birthday

On this, the occasion of Bernard Shaw's birthday, i should like to
congratulate the author of the Wikipedia article on the Shavian
alphabet for his efforts in presenting the subject in a clear and concise
manner; a first-rate presentation in my opinion. i believe the author to
be wurdbendur, one of our members, but if it isn't, or if there are others
to be thanked as well, i hope they shall protest and claim their due.

Wikipedia, i think, has become a really useful instrument for the spread
of knowledge and for the broadening of views, and an article of this
calibre should attract interest and hence new members.

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Shavian_alphabet

impressed,
dshep



____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "bethany adison" <beth.an@...>
wrote:
>
>
> hIr iz somTiN abQt 19T sencuri pOetri HAt hAz YlwEz mistifFd mI: wF
did HE jMz wOrdz HAt lUkd Az HO HE SUd hAv rFmd, but did not? fOr
ekzAmpel:
>
> /rAlf wYldO emerson rOt: "Az god
> H wOrd untM H profet spOken
> waz rit on tEbelz jet unbrOken;
> stil flOts upon H mOrniN wind,
> stil wisperz t H wiliN mFnd.
>
> F understAnd H kupeliN v H wOrdz "spOken" n "unbrOken", but wF duz
hI jMz H wOrd "wind" in relASon t H wOrd "mFnd"?
>
> ______________ b.A.

Hi Bethany!

A belated reply ... My wife tells me that when at high school, here
in the Australian state of Victoria, sometime during the 60s, the
choir mistress (="choral director"?) absolutely insisted that they
sing "wind" as /wFnd/ - I forget what song she said that was in.
Left me speechless! Pure pedantry, methought; but perhaps it was
once pronounced thus in everyday British speech?

Regards,
Yahya

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "dshepx" <dshep@...> wrote:
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@> wrote:
> >
> > Shaw's explicit wish. Shaw's intentions. It's. simplicity's
>
> For some reason Yahoo no longer shows the possesive,
> as in Shaw apostrophe s; it apostrophe s. simplicity apostrophe s
> At least not on my browser.
>
> > (sorry Paul – just poking fun).
>
> This should have been a dash.
>
> >"English Pronouncing Dictionary".
>
> These should have been quotes.
>
> > Those of you who had to read Beowulf in school may recall the
opening
> > word: hwæt!
> >
> > hwæt indeed,
>
> And of course this should have been hw\anglo-saxon letter ae\t
> Why do these things happen? Why can one press a key yet not get
> the intended result at the other end? What am I doing wrong?
>
> curiously,
> dhsep
>

Curious indeed! I use Internet Explorer, so the following comments
may or may not apply to other browsers. In IE at least, one can
choose the View | Encoding menu item, and then set the encoding to
one of a number of standard settings (I usually have it set to UTF-8)
or set it to Auto-Select, which does a reasonably good job of
choosing an encoding suitable to the content. For example, when
viewing your message, quoted above, and the one immediately preceding
it, with Auto-Select, I had no trouble reading the dash, the opening
and closing double quotes, or the ae ligature. Choosing the UTF-8
encoding gives trouble with the dash, the quotes and the ligature;
choosing the Western European (ISO) encoding works perfectly fine.

In short, if using IE, you can leave the encoding set to the default
value, Auto-Select, for good results most of the time. That way, you
can also be reasonably sure that most recipients will see it as you
do, since they will have let it default. Perhaps other browsers are
similar?

Yahya

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" wrote
>
> > yes, there's an "h" in my name, but very few Aussies can
> > pronounce it in a medial intervocalic position; funnily, tho,
> > they have no trouble saying "It's so hot!" - YA
>
> So, ya-hya, not yah-ya, would that be correct?

Spot on!

> ... Probably most people
> looking at that see the word "ah" therein and pronounce accordingly.
> The only instance I can think of where the cluster \hy\ occurs is in
> blues music where you can frequently hear "here" pronounced, usually
> forcefully (and I think melodically), as \hyeah\. It easily occurs
> inter-
> vocally too, as in " see hyeah." I think this to be a relic
> pronunciation.
> Perhaps related is the New York pronunciation of "human"
and "humour"
> as "yuman" and " yumer," sometimes with a hint of an initial \h\.
>
> "yahya_melb" also earlier wrote about the different pronunciations
of
> \ear\ in Australian and Malaysian English. Please correct me if
wrong,
> but would not both be non-rhotic?
Definitely non-rhotic. We Aussies all THINK we pronounce an /r/ at
the ends of words, but others can't hear it ... I think there is an r-
like off-glide, which consists more in positioning the tongue, how
exactly is difficult to say - I feel a tension in both sides of the
tongue, forcing it down to the lower teeth, while the front of the
tongue rises towards the upper gum and hard palate.

Compare:
1. "Are those people wrong? Us, never!"
with:
2. "Ah, those people wrong us never."
ignoring intonation patterns, lengths and pauses. The initial "A..."
is aspirated in 2. but not in 1.; but there is no tongue fronting at
all in 2.

What's the phonetic name and IPA symbol for this "r-like off-glide"?

Actually, the "r" I pronounce in, say, "bring" is an apical
continuant; not a flap, not a trill. Same in "heard", "bird", "ring"
and "her".

> ... The one Australian word containing
> that sound that I am most familiar with is "beer", which to my ear
> sounds
> like \BEEah\. Again, set me straight if mistaken.

Don't often have cause to say it, as I don't use alcohol, but I'd say
it to rhyme exactly with "hear" or "near".

> non-antipodally,
> dshep
>

non-ant-antipodally, (*)
Yahya

(*) or is that "un-podally"?

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" wrote
>
> > yes, there's an "h" in my name, but very few Aussies can
> > pronounce it in a medial intervocalic position; funnily, tho,
> > they have no trouble saying "It's so hot!" - YA
>
> So, ya-hya, not yah-ya, would that be correct?

Spot on!

> ... Probably most people
> looking at that see the word "ah" therein and pronounce accordingly.
> The only instance I can think of where the cluster \hy\ occurs is in
> blues music where you can frequently hear "here" pronounced, usually
> forcefully (and I think melodically), as \hyeah\. It easily occurs
> inter-
> vocally too, as in " see hyeah." I think this to be a relic
> pronunciation.
> Perhaps related is the New York pronunciation of "human"
and "humour"
> as "yuman" and " yumer," sometimes with a hint of an initial \h\.
>
> "yahya_melb" also earlier wrote about the different pronunciations
of
> \ear\ in Australian and Malaysian English. Please correct me if
wrong,
> but would not both be non-rhotic?
Definitely non-rhotic. We Aussies all THINK we pronounce an /r/ at
the ends of words, but others can't hear it ... I think there is an r-
like off-glide, which consists more in positioning the tongue, how
exactly is difficult to say - I feel a tension in both sides of the
tongue, forcing it down to the lower teeth, while the front of the
tongue rises towards the upper gum and hard palate.

Compare:
1. "Are those people wrong? Us, never!"
with:
2. "Ah, those people wrong us never."
ignoring intonation patterns, lengths and pauses. The initial "A..."
is aspirated in 2. but not in 1.; but there is no tongue fronting at
all in 2.

What's the phonetic name and IPA symbol for this "r-like off-glide"?

Actually, the "r" I pronounce in, say, "bring" is an apical
continuant; not a flap, not a trill. Same in "heard", "bird", "ring"
and "her".

> ... The one Australian word containing
> that sound that I am most familiar with is "beer", which to my ear
> sounds
> like \BEEah\. Again, set me straight if mistaken.

Don't often have cause to say it, as I don't use alcohol, but I'd say
it to rhyme exactly with "hear" or "near".

> non-antipodally,
> dshep
>

non-ant-antipodally, (*)
Yahya

(*) or is that "un-podally"?

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com,
> --- dshep fiddled about, and discovered:
>
>
> Tabs are the culprit. I guess everyone else knew that.
>
> Example: tab
>
>
> mystery solved,
> dshep
>
> Sorry for again clogging up the mail.
>

On May 17, you wrote:
'An example can be seen being used as described above at the
Wikipedia entry for "Gothic Alphabet"

ï¿¼
as ever,
dshep

ï¿¼'

This shows (to me, using the auto-selected Western European (ISO)
encoding on Yahoo viewed with IE) a strange character consisting of
three horizontal lines, the midmost being thicker and wavy. However,
on the message digest I read using Outlook, the same character apears
to consist of the letters OBJ inside a dashed rectangle ...
presumably a stand-in for an image "object" which you inserted, and
which may have been removed by Yahoo.

However, there have been no funny characters in your three latest
posts on this topic. The only oddity was a couple of very short
lines, which may have been due to some invisible tab characters.

Best,
Yahya

Toggle Shavian

There is an interesting Sci-Fi movie for kids, called "The Last
Mimzy". It comes from a poem, in the book, "Alice in Wonderland", by
Charles Dodgson. Given the movie theme of of how to live in a looking
glass world is quite compatible with Shavian, here is the English text
of the poem, "Jabberwocky"
all set up in Shaw Alphabet. For the standard English version (and
numerous translations and parodies) go to Keith Lim's Jabberwocky site.
In 1962, Shavian a wholly new alphabet for English was designed and
briefly published, supported by a bequest from the English playwright
George Bernard Shaw.
Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Has anyone else seen the movie?
P.P.S. The pronunciation is that of a much older man
(who learned to read Lewis Carroll from his mother
who was an Alice) from the western U.S.

/JAbDwykI

twuz brilig, n H slFHI tOvz
did gFD n gimbal in H wEb;
Yl mimzI wD H bPagOvz,
n H mOm rATs QtgrEb.

bIwX H /JAbDwyk, mF sun!
H JYz HAt bFt, H klYz HAt kAc!
bIwX H /JubJub bxd, n Sun
H frMmWs /bAndDsnAc!

hI tUk hiz vPpal sPd in hAnd:
lYN tFm H mANksam fO hI sYt -
sO restad hI bF H /tumtum trI ,
n stUd ahwFl in TYt.

And, Az in ufiS TYt hI stUd ,
H /JAbDwyk, wiH Fz v flEm,
kEm hwifliN TrM H tulJI wUd ,
n bDbald Az it kEm!

wun tM! wun tM! n TrM n TrM
H vPpal blEd went snikD-snAk!
hI left it ded , n wiH its hed ,
hI went galumfiN bAk.

And hAst HQ slEn H /JAbDwyk?
kum t mF Rmz, mF bImiS bq!
O frAbJas dE! kalM! kalE!
hI cPtald in hiz Jq.

twuz brilig, n H slFHI tOvz
did gFD n gimbal in H wEb;
Yl mimzI wD H bPagOvz,
n H mOm rATs QtgrEb.

Toggle Shavian

Isn't this my transliteration, posted to my Web site several years ago?
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shawberwocky.html

Keith Lim's Jabberwocky Web site is still up, though it hasn't been revised
in many years - as, alas, neither have my Shaw Alphabet pages.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee USA

**************************************
Get a sneak
peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Toggle Shavian

HAt iz a rIzonabel Ylternat eksplAnESon. a fjM dEz agO F waz rIdiN
/cYser [EnSient eNgliS] n fFnali fQnd a similar Anser t Qr first 2
numberz [1 n 2]. todEz speliN iz H wE HE wer pronQnsd sencurIz agO! :
1=On, 2=two, 3=TrI, 4=fOr, ...

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya" <yahya@...> wrote:
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "bethany adison" beth.an@
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > hIr iz somTiN abQt 19T sencuri pOetri HAt hAz YlwEz mistifFd mI: wF
> did HE jMz wOrdz HAt lUkd Az HO HE SUd hAv rFmd, but did not? fOr
> ekzAmpel:
> >
> > /rAlf wYldO emerson rOt: "Az god
> > H wOrd untM H profet spOken
> > waz rit on tEbelz jet unbrOken;
> > stil flOts upon H mOrniN wind,
> > stil wisperz t H wiliN mFnd.
> >
> > F understAnd H kupeliN v H wOrdz "spOken" n "unbrOken", but wF duz
> hI jMz H wOrd "wind" in relASon t H wOrd "mFnd"?
> >
> > ______________ b.A.
>
> Hi Bethany!
>
> A belated reply ... My wife tells me that when at high school, here
> in the Australian state of Victoria, sometime during the 60s, the
> choir mistress (="choral director"?) absolutely insisted that they
> sing "wind" as /wFnd/ - I forget what song she said that was in.
> Left me speechless! Pure pedantry, methought; but perhaps it was
> once pronounced thus in everyday British speech?
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Toggle Shavian

nQ jM got mI interested in /piTAgOrus, sO F cekd a fjM oHer sOrsez. won
v Hem lFkend hiz respekt fOr wimen t HAt v /JIzus wen hI komiSond 62
fImEl disFpelz t fuNkSon Az tIcerz v H gospel v H kiNdom. [referens:
urantia.org. kI wOrdz: women's corps.]

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, kris quinn wondered:
>
> a SOrt tFm agO F Askd An ETIist frend hQ hI wUd deskrFb infiniti.
> hI sed, "pF--3.14159265...n on n on..."
>
> it never sIsez t amEz mI hQ a person kAn be sO Open-mFnded about
> fizikal sFens n, At H sEm tFm, dismis filosofi n spiritjMAliti
> Az "nonsensikal JiberiS."
> __________________________
>
> AnoHer ?: a wFl bAk mAni responsez inklMded H /rId/SY Alfabet insted
> v /rOmAn leterz (Or interspersd wiH dikSonari 'fOren eNglis'). jUrz
> iz dun wiH jMnikOd, izent it? F nOrmali jMz wOrdpAd. kAn it be dun
> wiH HAt? it iz Izi t uplOd /SY Az a fFl, but hQ iz it dun (oHer Han
> jMnikOd wen pOstiN a mesaJ?
>
> F must plId fDgetfalnes in His mAtD. mF brQzD jMzaz
> sevaral YltDnativz fYr inkOd dafYlts – jMnikOd iz wun
> ov Hem - but if it woz set At HAt partikjMlyr cqs At
> HAt tFm F dM not rakYl. mF prIvias mesaJ woz sent wiH
> 'mAk Os rOman', and His Jinarali pradjMsas a gUd rasult
> At Ha SYgrMp webpEJ (but duz not kum TrM Az intendad
> in Ha mEl dFJest.
>
> sO, Az a test, F SAl send His mesaJ wiH mF brQzD set
> At jMnikod (UTF-8). F Am not familjD wiH wurdpAd.
>
> Az fYr Ha peralz ov filosafi, F Am a fAn mFself Az fyr
> Az mF limatad abilatiz yr kEpabal, but F rakYl a komant
> bF /ricard /fFnman, wun ov Ha grEtast fizasasts ov modDn
> tFmz in HAt difakult And veri, veri wIDd fIld ov kwyntam
> makAniks, HAt filosafi woz jMslas.
>
> evD jMslas,
> /dSep
>

Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser