YahooGroup Archive

From: Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...>
Date: 2008-03-30 20:34:34 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Shaw alphabet fonts for Mac

Toggle Shavian

I just a couple of weeks ago installed the regular windows fonts on my mac, and they're working fine. Leopard is really versatile.

--Star

=========
"Having imagination, it takes you an hour to write a paragraph that, if you were unimaginative, would take you only a minute. Or you might not write the paragraph at all."
-- Franklin P. Adams

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad

----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Richmond <RSRICHMOND@...>
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:22:40 PM
Subject: [shawalphabet] Shaw alphabet fonts for Mac

Several days I asked if somebody could tell me what fonts to download
- and from where - so I can read Shaw Alphabet on a Mac with the
latest (Leopard) operating system. Could somebody reply?

Bob Richmond
Knoxville TN







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From: Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...>
Date: 2008-03-30 20:34:49 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Re: shavian refinement

Toggle Shavian

Alls well that ends well. I don't think any of us were so offended that we left, heck I even popped in to see what the fuss is about, and getting a dialogue going is great, even if it does take some fussing and flustering.

--Star

=========
"Having imagination, it takes you an hour to write a paragraph that, if you were unimaginative, would take you only a minute. Or you might not write the paragraph at all."
-- Franklin P. Adams

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad

----- Original Message ----
From: tithhmi <akousw@...>
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:05:01 AM
Subject: [shawalphabet] Re: shavian refinement

Okay, I probably ought to apologize to the rest of the group for
bringing this up again. I haven't been very active in the group for
a few years, and I just recently saw the 'Wizard of Oz' with the
corrected Shavian alphabet, so it made sense when I though I saw
a 'March x, 2008' on one of those messages, and though the thread to
be current. But then, I saw posts that I wrote, and realized that
2008 was really 2004.
I will work on producing a pdf of 'the Wizard of Oz' in the original
Shavian alphabet, but I hope that everyone will pardon me this
accident, and drop the subject today -- 28 March 2008..







____________________________________________________________________________________
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From: Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...>
Date: 2008-03-30 20:35:09 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] re: déjà vu all over again , and again

Toggle Shavian

==========

"Having imagination, it takes you an hour to write a paragraph that, if you were unimaginative, would take you only a minute. Or you might not write the paragraph at all."
-- Franklin P. Adams

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoadLovely summary, dshep. Though I admit to adding a tiny ha-ha to the bottom of my woe to create my very own /hw/ symbol. But I'm a crazy American *who* insists that *what* she writes *where* she posts reflects her *whishes* uh, wishes. Got carried away, sorry.

Yet another pocket linguist,
--Star

curioser and curioser,
dshep

............ ......... ......... .....







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From: "Yahya" <yahya@...>
Date: 2008-04-01 02:35:08 #
Subject: Re: shavian refinement

Toggle Shavian

Hi Star!

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Star Raven wrote:
>
> *pokes her head out of the ether to see if it's safe to come out*
> It is rather odd that we would have such a heated argument. dshep,
I believe next on the docket is either rhotic/non-rhotic or stressed
up/ado. I thought we agreed to disagree on the whole hung/haha
discrepancy.
>
> I know I've been quiet, having a baby makes keeping up with shavian
a little difficult. but I just installed the host of fonts on my new
computer, and should be able to keep up again.

Aren't babies fun? :-) More laughs than a couple of kittens with a
ball of knitting wool!
>
> --Star
>
> ==========
>
> "Having imagination, it takes you an hour to write a paragraph
that, if you were unimaginative, would take you only a minute. Or you
might not write the paragraph at all."
> -- Franklin P. Adams

Ah, yes indeed; but had one imagination enough, one would be able to
imagine oneself sitting down to write exactly that paragraph, and no
other; and having the imagination to envisage a thing, that thing is
as good as done (barring cosmic or personal catastrophes - like
babies!)

Regards,
Yahya

From: dshep <dshep@...>
Date: 2008-04-02 05:29:48 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] shavian refinement

Toggle Shavian

Re: [shawalphabet] shavian refinement

Hello PV

--- PaulV writes in 2378

... ... ...

>I am thinking of moving the Ha-Ha symbol upwards, so that it is a
Tall, >and narrow it a bit to make it narrower, Like the Nose in the
"Kilroy is >Here" sign.

This I believe to be a good idea. I especially like the fact that
this would move the looped part of each letter to the central part of
the the three-tiered letter framework, which to my eye looks better
than before and moreover, I think, is easier to write.

The two letter symbols for the initial sounds of thin /H/ and then /
T/ also have their loops there, which might be a cause for some
hesitation, but this needn't be a problem as can be seen below in the
test sentence "hang this thing":

ï¿¼

... ... ...

>As for Err, it is rarely used and could be replace by a Doubled
Array >Letter.
>Regards, Paul V.

Only if it is made to rhyme with the first syllable of "merry,"as
many people do nowadays. The traditional pronunciation rhymes with
shirt, earth, her, etc. and therefore is a common sound.

>P.S. I am looking to the future and the Third Alternative for the
Shavian >Alphabet, myself. I suspect the need that will bring it
forth into common >parlance is just beyond this Horizon.
>Regards, Paul V.

mE jM bI rFt!

Az evD,
/dSep

--Apple-Mail-115--973721140
Content-Type: multipart/related;
type="text/html";
boundary=Apple-Mail-116--973721140

From: dshep <dshep@...>
Date: 2008-04-02 05:31:54 #
Subject: re: [shawalphabet] shavian refinement

Toggle Shavian

Star pokes her head out...

sEf tM kum Qt F balIv, jM SUd dM sO mOr Yfan. sAnati iz
gUd fYr us.

jes, it wyz bOT od And unnesaseri tM rapIt
An Old And tFrd yrgjMmant, but a cAlanJ iz
a cAlanJ, And a bit ov a rjMd wun At HAt,
And jes, it did brEk Qr trMs tM, Az jM sE,
agrI tM disagrI.

jM yr kwFt rFt tM pqnt Qt HAt HAr yr uHD kwescanz tM bI
rasolvd suc Az rOtisati And stres.

stres wil bI difrant fYr difrant Aksents, Az wil bI
rOtisati -- anuHD subJakt tM agrI tM disagrI abQt.

but, it nId not bI an insurmQntabal obstakal. Az suJestad
in Ha prIvias mesaJ, if fFnal-[r] iz rekagnFzd Az An AlofOn
-- HAT iz, Az An r-sQnd fYr sum pIpal, An ekstendad vQwal
Yr Swy(Svy) fyr uHDz, Hen Ha problam disapirz. His SUd bI
posabal, wI dM it Ylredi nQ wiH Qr stAndDd YrTografi. sE
Qt lQd Ha wurdz "rir, rAr, rOr".

kIp Hem dFpDz klIn,
/dSep

From: "karen greysen" <karen.grey@...>
Date: 2008-04-03 18:45:29 #
Subject: re:153 memOri

Toggle Shavian

rI 153 memori

Az a cFld, F waz tYt t jMz H nEm /rq g. biv t remember H vFbrESonal
Order v pigment kolOrz.

/rq = red, OrAnJ, jelO;

g. = grIn;

biv = blM, indigO n vFolet.

``````````````````````````````````````

From: "paul vandenbrink" <vandenbrinkg@...>
Date: 2008-04-06 08:40:33 #
Subject: Re: 2:48 in H mOrniN

Toggle Shavian

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
<vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
>
> hF /rFan
>
> Y rEz a lyt v gUd pqnts.
> wI kAnt nO Yl H dItEalz abQt histPakal /JIzus
> n evrI HiN els in H /bFbal.
> HE R just H impPtant stPIz n pXabalz HAt
> /g-d wAnts us t nO.
>
> stil, F kAn fFnd a lot v YsfUl infPmESun
> n AdvFs in HX.
> mOstlI H stPIz tel Y wut nyt t dV.
> F lUk At pEpal lFk /kEn n /lAvAn n /JEkyb n /lyt
> n hiz dytxz n /kPak n /bAlAm n /fXO n Ic wun iz
> a wPniN v mistEks HAt F kUd mEk.
>
> F dV nyt wDrI abQt /bFbal kOdz.
> HX iz plentI v VsfUl stuf t kynsidD wiT Qt
> digiN sO dIp.
> duz H fAkt /jIzus wuz prYbAblI mXId mEk enI difDens t
> hiz meseJ v tYlDans n cXatI?
> hE, hI RgVd wiT hiz muHd, but nO budI hOldz HAt
> agEnst him.
>
> regRdz, /pYl /vI.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "rian teklund" <r.teklund@>
> wrote:
> >
> > spiritjMal lFt in H dork stilnes v nFt.
> >
> > F awOk TiNkiN v a konversESon H dE befOr n TYt, 'jes, Her or
mAni
> mOral
> > n Iven spiritjMal konsepts in H bFbel.'
> >
> > but todE, TQzandz v jIrz lEter,
> >
> > som v H sivil lYz, lFk mEraJ hAv evolvd veri diferent sOSial
> kustomz. n
> > sO wI hAv novelz, lFk "H /davinci kOd" HAt dQt H lFklihUd HAt Ani
> > 30-jIr-Old JMiS mAn bAk Hen wud stil bI siNgel.
> >
> > His got mI TiNkiN abQt H diferens betwIn spekjMlESon n
revelESon.
> n H
> > diferens betwIn gesiN n nOiN.
> >
> > H bFbel kontEnz frAgments v prIvius--rIli EnSient revelESonz, but
> > frAgments bF Her veri nEcur lIv gAps HAt hjMmAnz (n mOst
> klerJimen) or
> > kontinjMali trFiN t eksplEn. wFl oHer histOrik rIserc mE help,
> dIper
> > eksplAnESonz jMZMali rekwFr pjUr spekjMlESon [lFk H /nOdFt wUmAn
hM
> > mErId /kEn--Or wF non v hiz broHerz n sisterz, nIsez n nefjMz,
> grAnd
> > nIsez n nefjMz v H prIvius senturi befOr hiz birT yr not Iven
> menSond in
> > H /hIbrM histOri ?]
> >
> > AniwE, His lEdi lIviN a bFbel-studi klAs tOld mI HAt /JIzus'
lAst
> wOrdz,
> > "it iz finiSd" waz prUf-pozitiv HAt nO oHer rFtiNz kUd bI Aded t
H
> bFbel
> > from HAt tFm on!
> >
> > duz HAt stEtment sIm Az sili t jM Az it duz t mI?
> >
> > _________________r.t.
> >
>

From: "paul vandenbrink" <vandenbrinkg@...>
Date: 2008-04-07 19:00:40 #
Subject: On more shavian refinement

Toggle Shavian

Hi DaShep
I am glad to hear that you liked my Kilroy's Nose solution to the
Ha-Ha Letter. I think it is very practical to move it up to the mid-
tier in any case because the H-sound usually starts a word, and so
as a Mid-Tall Letter, it looks a little more aligned with the
following letters. It also looks less like a Roman Y.

As an American English speaker, calling the Stressed/Long "er/ur"
sound Err, gives me an Urge to Purge. It was a big stumbling block
for me when I first learned Shavian, because I didn't know which
sound they were talking about. We just do not pronounce Err like
that.
In my writing, I tend to restrict the use of Err, to when the Er-
sound starts a word, to when it is a stressed stand-alone syllable,
to when it is embedded within a syllable, and to a very few other
rare exceptions, which are usually Latin Borrowings.
For example, Urgent, Urban, irksome, Ernest, turn, learn, bird,
burn, taciturn, confer, conifer, conferance, prefer, infer, inter
(as in bury). Other I prefer to use the letter, Array, for the Er-
sound.

So I would spell Hurry as "hDrI"

Any way, I do agree there is no easy solution for what to do with
the Shavian letter Err.

Best of Luck, Regards, Paul
______________attached_________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, dshep <dshep@...> wrote:
> >I am thinking of moving the Ha-Ha symbol upwards, so that it is
a
> Tall, >and narrow it a bit to make it narrower, Like the Nose in
the
> "Kilroy is Here" sign.
>
> This I believe to be a good idea. I especially like the fact that
> this would move the looped part of each letter to the central part
of
> the the three-tiered letter framework, which to my eye looks
better
> than before and moreover, I think, is easier to write.
>
> The two letter symbols for the initial sounds of thin /H/ and
then /
> T/ also have their loops there, which might be a cause for some
> hesitation, but this needn't be a problem as can be seen below in
the
> test sentence "hang this thing":

From: jeff <akousw@...>
Date: 2008-04-08 05:23:50 #
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Re: 2:48 in H mOrniN

Toggle Shavian

OkE, fxst, F TiNk it impPtint HAt wI fFnd sum wE t trAnskrFb TradiSunal PTografI.

Az t not nOiN muc v H histPrikal /JIzaz, Hat klEm is Just plEn silI: wI kAn bI sxtin v H /rezxekSan espesalI bF H vXI egzistAns v H kriscin fET. if /krFst iz not rizen frum H ded, Hen HX wUd bI nO kriscan fET Az "Hen iz Qr prIciN in vEn, n jP fET iz ylsO in vEn" (1 Cor 15:14), sO if /krFst did not apWr t ovD 500 pIpl AftD /hiz rezDekSan, Hen H disFplz wUd not bI wiliN t sufD n dF fP H vXI lF HAt H sentxIanz wx pEd t tel.

n F wUd aprISIEt not hAviN mF fET n /lPd'z validitI n/P trMT JuJd bF sum fikSinal novel: it's Just plEn stupid! espeSalI wen kumpXd t H umEziN histPisitI v H /bFbl.

On Sunday 2008 April 06 03:40:23 paul vandenbrink wrote:
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink"
>
> <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
> > hF /rFan
> >
> > Y rEz a lyt v gUd pqnts.
> > wI kAnt nO Yl H dItEalz abQt histPakal /JIzus
> > n evrI HiN els in H /bFbal.
> > HE R just H impPtant stPIz n pXabalz HAt
> > /g-d wAnts us t nO.
> >
> > stil, F kAn fFnd a lot v YsfUl infPmESun
> > n AdvFs in HX.
> > mOstlI H stPIz tel Y wut nyt t dV.
> > F lUk At pEpal lFk /kEn n /lAvAn n /JEkyb n /lyt
> > n hiz dytxz n /kPak n /bAlAm n /fXO n Ic wun iz
> > a wPniN v mistEks HAt F kUd mEk.
> >
> > F dV nyt wDrI abQt /bFbal kOdz.
> > HX iz plentI v VsfUl stuf t kynsidD wiT Qt
> > digiN sO dIp.
> > duz H fAkt /jIzus wuz prYbAblI mXId mEk enI difDens t
> > hiz meseJ v tYlDans n cXatI?
> > hE, hI RgVd wiT hiz muHd, but nO budI hOldz HAt
> > agEnst him.
> >
> > regRdz, /pYl /vI.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "rian teklund" <r.teklund@>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > spiritjMal lFt in H dork stilnes v nFt.
> > >
> > > F awOk TiNkiN v a konversESon H dE befOr n TYt, 'jes, Her or
>
> mAni
>
> > mOral
> >
> > > n Iven spiritjMal konsepts in H bFbel.'
> > >
> > > but todE, TQzandz v jIrz lEter,
> > >
> > > som v H sivil lYz, lFk mEraJ hAv evolvd veri diferent sOSial
> >
> > kustomz. n
> >
> > > sO wI hAv novelz, lFk "H /davinci kOd" HAt dQt H lFklihUd HAt Ani
> > > 30-jIr-Old JMiS mAn bAk Hen wud stil bI siNgel.
> > >
> > > His got mI TiNkiN abQt H diferens betwIn spekjMlESon n
>
> revelESon.
>
> > n H
> >
> > > diferens betwIn gesiN n nOiN.
> > >
> > > H bFbel kontEnz frAgments v prIvius--rIli EnSient revelESonz, but
> > > frAgments bF Her veri nEcur lIv gAps HAt hjMmAnz (n mOst
> >
> > klerJimen) or
> >
> > > kontinjMali trFiN t eksplEn. wFl oHer histOrik rIserc mE help,
> >
> > dIper
> >
> > > eksplAnESonz jMZMali rekwFr pjUr spekjMlESon [lFk H /nOdFt wUmAn
>
> hM
>
> > > mErId /kEn--Or wF non v hiz broHerz n sisterz, nIsez n nefjMz,
> >
> > grAnd
> >
> > > nIsez n nefjMz v H prIvius senturi befOr hiz birT yr not Iven
> >
> > menSond in
> >
> > > H /hIbrM histOri ?]
> > >
> > > AniwE, His lEdi lIviN a bFbel-studi klAs tOld mI HAt /JIzus'
>
> lAst
>
> > wOrdz,
> >
> > > "it iz finiSd" waz prUf-pozitiv HAt nO oHer rFtiNz kUd bI Aded t
>
> H
>
> > bFbel
> >
> > > from HAt tFm on!
> > >
> > > duz HAt stEtment sIm Az sili t jM Az it duz t mI?
> > >
> > > _________________r.t.

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