Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Hallo all,

Below I attach a copy of a message I sent dShep earlier, to test how the Shaw Sans No. 2 font appears on the Yahoo! Groups website, and in the daily digest.

Regards,
Yahya
my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music

-----Original Message-----
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
Sent: Monday 31 March 2008 17:43 pm


Hi!

You wrote on Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:46 pm (PDT):
From my trusty Chambers':

punctuate
to mark with points; to mark off (a piece of writing) with full
stops, commas, question marks, etc; to intersperse; to emphasize.

punctuation
the act or art of dividing sentences by points or marks

F ges HAt inklMdz slASmyrks, sO--sori 'bQt HAt.

/// \\\
/dSep
Outlook 2000 shows me your message, in a daily digest,
in the form and font above (Times New Roman).

What confuses me about this is why I didn't see your
last sentence in some Shavian font that I have installed,
that is, as in Shaw Sans No. 2 below:
F ges HAt inklMdz slASmyrks, sO--sori 'bQt HAt.


Of course, I'm assuming you wrote it in a Shavian font! ;-)
Still, I have yet to see any digest from the Shaw Alphabet
group actually appear in Shavian. Can you shed any light
on this?
Regards,
Yahya

my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music

(His mesaJ brPt t Y bF H font /SP sAnz nambx tU.)
"jeff" rOt, on 7 Epril 2008:
"Az t not nOiN muc v H histPrikal /JIzaz, Hat klEm is Just plEn silI: wI kAn bI sxtin v H /rezxekSan espesalI bF H vXI egzistAns v H kriscin fET."
F dOnt TiNk His iz a gUd plEs t diskus rIlJan. not evrIwan hIr iz kriscan, n F dOnt imAJin Yd enJq mI prIciN /islam hIr eni mP HAn Fd enJq eniwan prIciN /komjunizm ...

n if it wx (a gUd plEs t diskus rIlJan), it wUd nId betr argjUmentz HAn HIz! e.g. wot wI nO v /JIzaz _iz_ H histPrikal /JIzaz - HAtz wot H sFans v histPrI iz abQt - wot wI kAn nO fP sxtan abQt tFmz n pIpl pRst.

rigRdz,
/yahya
mF mYzik on H web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music

V stRtad it. if V dOn't wunt rIliJin (P, relJun, az V sE it), Hen dOn't brIN it up. uHDwFz, F rIsxv H rFt t defend mF fET, weHD it fPsiz V t prIc /islom P not (HO F sI nO kPelESan.) And F nO HAt it YtOmAtiklI mEks mI a hEt moND, but F dOn't kX: if V prIc /islom, F wil prIc /krFst. n if V ekspekt mI t sit dqn n aksept Hat mF RgVments R 'sO stMpid bIkuz HX'z u sFens, ylHo HAt sFens Vzez H /bFbal Az a histPikal sPs, F wil not. F wil not Aksept H validitI v fikSan Az An RgjMment uginst mF fET. And if His ytOmAtiklI mEks mI a hEtmoNgD, An idIat, And a komVnist, Hen F'm sPi Hat HQ Rt reprObEt.




> (His mesaJ brPt t Y bF H font /SP sAnz nambx tU.)
> "jeff" rOt, on 7 Epril 2008:
> "Az t not nOiN muc v H histPrikal /JIzaz, Hat klEm is Just plEn silI: wI
> kAn bI sxtin v H /rezxekSan espeSalI bF H vXI egzistAns v H /kriscin fET." F
> dOnt TiNk His iz a gUd plEs t diskus rIlJan
. not evrIwan hIr iz kriscan, n
> F dOnt imAJin Yd enJq mI prIciN /islam hIr eni mP HAn Fd enJq eniwan prIciN
> /komjunizm ...
>
> n if it wx (a gUd plEs t diskus rIlJan), it wUd nId betr argjUmentz HAn
> HIz! e.g. wot wI nO v /JIzaz _iz_ H histPrikal /JIzaz - HAtz wot H sFans v
> histPrI iz abQt - wot wI kAn nO fP sxtan abQt tFmz n pIpl pRst.
>
> rigRdz,
> /yahya
> mF mYzik on H web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music

F swX, Az /god iz mF witnes, if V prIc /islym, F wil prIc /krFst. F wil not apolaJFz fP H supOzedlI bIjIN a hEt moND Hat His supozedlI mEks mI, n mF stMpiditI wil bI prOvin if it must.
nQ, if V wunt prMf, Hen, hQ abQt His: Ha /resxekSun wuz belIvd wiHin H sEm JenDESun. F kAn sE His bIkuz /pYl (H /apostal) rifDs t a krId in 1 Corinthians 15:3 hI rIsIvd Hat /krFst dFd akPdIN t H skripcDz, HAt /hI wuz bXId n roz agin H Txd dE. n wuz sIn v /kEfAs, Hen v H 12, Hen v OvD 500 pIpal, sum v hMm wx stil alFv. wen /pyl sez "F rIsIvd" hI rifDz t a tradiSun Hat kriscinz tOld him. sO, Hat wuz a krId v H fxst JenDEun. in PdD fP a leJendXI fikSan t develap, it wUd tEk sevral JenDESunz, sO HAt nO kPektiv vQs kUd egzist, lFk sum JMz -- hM hEted /kriscIAnitI, n wUd stop it if HE kUd bF Just pUlIN Qt /JIzuz' bodI -- sO a fxrst JenDESun belIf iz ylmOst sxtinlI not a leJend.

sekandlI, H histPisitIv v H gospels iz nOabl frum histPikal sFens.
HX R 4 krFtCIa fP a trM histPikal fxst-pxsun akQnt:
1. iz H pXsun wilIN t tel H trMT?
2. iz H pXsun Ebl t tel H trMT?
3. dUz H pXsan hAv AnITIN t gEn frum a lF?
4. R H dokVments rIl?
fP # 4, HX R ovx 5,600 nM testament mAnVskripts in grIk alOn, stRtIN frum 25 jCz AftD H gospelz. /hOmD'z /ilIAd hAz 643, stRtIN 500 jCz lEtD. aHD wxks kunsidDd histPikal R 750 - sevral TQzind jCz lEtD. sO, if H nV testament mAnVskripts R not histPikal, Hen nuTIN iz. n bIsFdz, H bFbal iz trIted Az histPiklI rIlFabl pAst /Jen. 11, sO HAt sFens Vzez H hOl v H nM testament in sFens, n yl H plAsiz n pIpl R HX.
wic lIdz t #2. Ha gospelz (espeSalI /lMk n /akts) tel Ivents wiH a ditEl Hat telz wen n wX sO Hat histPWnz nO wen n wX evrITIN hApend. /lMk, H rFtD v /akts n /lMk iz eksplisitlI rIsxcIN H Ivents v /JIzaz n H xlI cxc.
#1 iz bAsiklI Ansxd bF duz H pxsun'z intenSun tel us. duz hI sE, 'F/m telIN v An Ivent, ...". /lMk iz rIsxcIN H events v /JIzuz n H xlI cxc fP hiz rIdD, Teofilus. /maTV'z gospel stRts wiH /JIzuz' linIaJ, wic YtomAtiklI telz hiz rIdDz, hM R JMz, Hat /JIzuz iz a rIl gF. /Jon telz us Hat hI did mP HAn kUd bI kantEnd in evrI bUk in H wxrld, n H detElz n suc in H gospelz implF Hat yl 4 guspelz n /Akts R talkIN abQt TINz HAt rIlI hApend.
n
#3 iz An AbsalMt nO, unles deT iz a gUd TIN. Yl v /JIzuz' disFplz dFd hPibl deTs lFk krMsifikSun -- upsFd-dQn in /pItD'z kEs -- eksept fP /Jon hM wuz bqld in ql but sxrvFvd And wuz Hen egzFld t /pAtmos. n H disFplz wx mOstlI kQwDds bIfP /JIzuz' rezDekSun, sO somTIN hAd t hApen. Ha OnlI lF HE wud benefit frum iz -F nM him not. but, HE dFd fP hiz sEk n H /gyspel'z, sO HAt /kriscIAnitI egzists tudE OnlI bIkuz v it's trMT.

n, if V insinVEted suc, F Am not a komVnist.
<>< (/JIzuz /krFst, /gYd'z sun, sEvIP), /Jef.

Hello, I'm Daniel. I first read about Shavian several months ago but
never really got around to learning until recently. So I have a
question: how are "egg" and "age" pronounced? I pronounce the vowel
sounds the same (like hey, day, lay, may, fey, bay, and so on), so I'm
sure I'm spelling some of my words wrong.

On Tuesday 2008 April 08 23:01:13 Daniel wrote:
> Hello, I'm Daniel. I first read about Shavian several months ago but
> never really got around to learning until recently. So I have a
> question: how are "egg" and "age" pronounced? I pronounce the vowel
> sounds the same (like hey, day, lay, may, fey, bay, and so on), so I'm
> sure I'm spelling some of my words wrong.

egg is the "short e", and age is "long a"

actually, the sounds are just as the vowels of their respective names, egg
like the 'e' in egg, and age like the 'a' in age.

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Daniel <janitor_stage_two@...> wrote:
> Hello, I'm Daniel. I first read about Shavian several months ago but
> never really got around to learning until recently. So I have a
> question: how are "egg" and "age" pronounced? I pronounce the vowel
> sounds the same (like hey, day, lay, may, fey, bay, and so on), so I'm
> sure I'm spelling some of my words wrong.

Do you pronounce "bet" and "bait" the same as well? If not, "egg" is
the sound in "bet", and "age" is the sound in "bait".

If you also pronounce all the pairs "bet"/"bait", "bell"/"bale",
"men"/"main", "ebb"/"Abe", "red"/"raid" identically, then your choices
are either to write in your own accent (and only use one of the two
letters and never the other one), or to use a dictionary if you want
to write "standard" Shavian, which distinguishes the two sounds.
(Though as a rough guideline, if it's written with just an "e" in
English, it's likely to be the "egg" sound, while "age" is typically
written "a + silent e", "ai", "ay", "ey", or "eigh".)

I've found the American Heritage Dictionary 4ed. fairly useful for
this purposes, as it mostly makes the same distinctions that I think
should be in Shavian.

I usually look it up on http://dictionary.reference.com/ . Note that
searches will typically return results from several dictionaries; look
for the one with "American Heritage Dictionary" at the top (or "The
American Heritage(R) Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition" at the bottom).

For example, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egg uses the mark
"e with a little v on top" to mark the vowel sound, and "a with a line
on top" on http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/age .
(http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html is the
pronunciation key.)

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:07 AM, jeff <akousw@...> wrote:
> actually, the sounds are just as the vowels of their respective names, egg
> like the 'e' in egg, and age like the 'a' in age.

Some people -- apparently including Daniel -- pronounce "egg" like
"aig" (and "leg" like "laig"), so that the name of the letter is,
unfortunately, misleading for them.

I *think* this merger is usually only in front of -g and -k, though.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

Daniel,

Sometimes Americans pronounce "egg" as "Aygg" so as a useful tangent a better alternative for the example word for "e" is "echo". And of course "age" sounds the same no matter the dialect or accent, for the shavian letter, "E".

Best of Regards,

Carl

jeff <akousw@...> wrote:
On Tuesday 2008 April 08 23:01:13 Daniel wrote:
> Hello, I'm Daniel. I first read about Shavian several months ago but
> never really got around to learning until recently. So I have a
> question: how are "egg" and "age" pronounced? I pronounce the vowel
> sounds the same (like hey, day, lay, may, fey, bay, and so on), so I'm
> sure I'm spelling some of my words wrong.

egg is the "short e", and age is "long a"

actually, the sounds are just as the vowels of their respective names, egg
like the 'e' in egg, and age like the 'a' in age.





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Hi all,

Well, that answers that! The previous message (below), composed in
Outlook and using the Shaw Sans No. 2 font, appeared correctly on the
Yahoo! Groups website, but not in the daily digest.

Also, when I hit the Reply button on the website, I was automatically
given the previous message quoted in a Courier (or Courier-like)
font, exactly the same as this reply. In particular, all the
material in Shaw Sans No. 2 had been converted to Courier[-ish].

I did try out the _New! Rich-text editor (beta)_ - although it does
give a choice of fonts, including Arial, Georgia, Comic Sans etc,
there was (surprise!) no shavian script among them.

Regards,
Yahya

my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@...>
wrote:
>
> Hallo all,
>
> Below I attach a copy of a message I sent dShep earlier, to test
how the Shaw Sans No. 2 font appears on the Yahoo! Groups website,
and in the daily digest.
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
> my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
> Sent: Monday 31 March 2008 17:43 pm
>
>
> Hi!
>
> You wrote on Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:46 pm (PDT):
> From my trusty Chambers':
>
> punctuate
> to mark with points; to mark off (a piece of writing) with full
> stops, commas, question marks, etc; to intersperse; to emphasize.
>
> punctuation
> the act or art of dividing sentences by points or marks
>
> F ges HAt inklMdz slASmyrks, sO--sori 'bQt HAt.
>
> /// \\\
> /dSep
> Outlook 2000 shows me your message, in a daily digest,
> in the form and font above (Times New Roman).
>
> What confuses me about this is why I didn't see your
> last sentence in some Shavian font that I have installed,
> that is, as in Shaw Sans No. 2 below:
> F ges HAt inklMdz slASmyrks, sO--sori 'bQt HAt.
>
>
> Of course, I'm assuming you wrote it in a Shavian font! ;-)
> Still, I have yet to see any digest from the Shaw Alphabet
> group actually appear in Shavian. Can you shed any light
> on this?
> Regards,
> Yahya
>
> my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music
>

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, jeff <akousw@...> wrote:
>
> V stRtad it. if V dOn't wunt rIliJin (P, relJun, az V sE it), Hen
dOn't brIN it up. [...]

What?! Are you sure? I coulda sworn (tho I rarely do) I was merely
replying to a thread which seemed to me to veer a little away from
the kinds of topics that we can expect to discuss safely on the web
without acrimony. Seems, sadly, I was right to be cynical. I would
dearly love to be able to engage others in discussion of any of the
controversial topics - which usually boils down to sex, religion,
politics, money and sport - in a non-confrontational way; but I doubt
we'll be able to do so here now.

And no, before anyone chooses to impugn my motives, I did not intend
to be provocative; rather the opposite.

This is the last comment I intend to make on this subject, since I
will not be drawn into futile argument. And to avoid any possibility
of confusion, I've written this in standard Australian English
spellings in the Traditional Orthography.

Now, I'd like to return to practising Shavian reading and writing.
Others may do as they please.

Regards,
Yahya

my music on the web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music

>
> > (His mesaJ brPt t Y bF H font /SP sAnz nambx tU.)
> > "jeff" rOt, on 7 Epril 2008:
> > "Az t not nOiN muc v H histPrikal /JIzaz, Hat klEm is Just plEn
> > silI: wI kAn bI sxtin v H /rezxekSan espeSalI bF H vXI egzistAns
> > v H /kriscin fET." F dOnt TiNk His iz a gUd plEs t diskus
> > rIlJan. not evrIwan hIr iz kriscan, n F dOnt imAJin Yd enJq mI
> > prIciN /islam hIr eni mP HAn Fd enJq eniwan prIciN /komjunizm ...
> >
> > n if it wx (a gUd plEs t diskus rIlJan), it wUd nId betr
> > argjUmentz HAn HIz! e.g. wot wI nO v /JIzaz _iz_ H
> > histPrikal /JIzaz - HAtz wot H sFans v histPrI iz abQt - wot wI
> > kAn nO fP sxtan abQt tFmz n pIpl pRst.
> >
> > rigRdz,
> > /yahya
> > mF mYzik on H web: www.esnips.com/web/yahyas-music