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On 6 Apr 2010, at 14:18, Robert Richmond wrote:

> I learned Shavian in 1961, and can read it easily though not very fast. I find the ball-finial font nearly unreadable, though I can't figure out why.

Too many of the little guys, I should think. The regular De Vinne text has them in c and j and f and that's about it. There were many more in the http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/alice-Latn-Shaw.png first version. But most of these were done away with in http://www.evertype.com/fonts/shavian/alice-Latn-Shaw-2.png the second version

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 15:18, Robert Richmond <rsrichmond@...> wrote:
>
> I learned Shavian in 1961, and can read it easily though not very fast. I find the ball-finial font nearly unreadable, though I can't figure out why.

I can imagine at least part of it is unfamiliarity with different font
styles -- we're used to reading traditional orthography in a fairly
wide range of different styles, but Shavian I've seen almost
exclusively in one specific sans-serif, constant-stroke-width style,
and everything else needs more brain power to parse.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

But the new version is less "curly", Phillip, so is it improved for you?

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 16:22, Michael Everson <everson@...> wrote:
> But the new version is less "curly", Phillip, so is it improved for you?

It's a bit better, but it's still very unfamiliar since I'm simply not
used to a serif font for Shavian.

I'm not saying it's bad typography, just that *I'm* not as good at
reading Shavian that's not in the sans-serif constant-stroke-width
font I'm accustomed to: the whole-word pattern-recognition basically
doesn't work and I have to pay a lot more attention to the letters
than I'm used to.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

Other than "Alice", I was asked for three documents typeset in Shavian:

* Androcles
* Shakespeare's sonnets
* Whitman's Leaves of Grass

"Leaves of Grass" is fairly huge, and although I have a preliminary copy, it's not really ready to share.

Versions of the other two which will be used as source to the typesetter program are at http://fury.shavian.org . If someone could cast an eye over them, especially "Androcles", and let me know of any markup errors, that would be very helpful.

The actual typesetting will happen when I have a little more spare time. (I'm in the middle of writing a tech book, so I have less time than usual to do whatever I like.)

Thomas

On 1 May 2010 11:59, Robert Richmond <rsrichmond@...> wrote:

> I think that the Androcles Shavian online should be conformed very
> strictly to the printed edition. Androcles after all is the only resource
> for the orthography of Shavian as it was originally standardized.
>
> And so it will be. But I don't have an electronic copy of the Shavian
edition of *Androcles*. What I do have is

1. a copy of the version in the conventional orthography, which you see
on the site
2. a database of the spellings of each word in the Shavian edition, which
is the foundation of the Shavian wiki
3. a program, *fury*, which can convert documents in the conventional
orthography into documents in both orthographies.

Once this is done, I'll be checking the whole thing against a paper copy of
the book to ensure correct spellings.

Thomas

Before using the canonical printed Penguin edition of "Androcles" for
proofing, please take a look at the archive. At least one contributor drew
attention to inconsistencies and misprints in the original. Must have been
at least five years ago. Sorry I can't be more precise--my downloaded copy
of the archive is sitting properly indexed on the hard disc of a Mac mini in
a basement cupboard labelled "Beware of the Leopard." Not exactly accessible.
jb

Hi Thomas,

In Androcles, Act 2, a direction (possibly inline) appears as Caesar's words (starting at "The Call Boy"):

"Caesar indulgent, laughing
You rogues: there is no end to your tricks. I'll dismiss you all and have elephants to fight. They fight fairly.

(He goes up to his box, and knocks at it. It is opened from within by the Captain, who stands as on parade to let him pass.)

The Call Boy comes from the passage, followed by three attendants carrying respectively a bundle of swords, some helmets, and some breastplates and pieces of armor which they throw down in a heap."

Regards,
Yahya


--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <tthurman@...> wrote:
>
> Other than "Alice", I was asked for three documents typeset in Shavian:
>
> * Androcles
> * Shakespeare's sonnets
> * Whitman's Leaves of Grass
>
> "Leaves of Grass" is fairly huge, and although I have a preliminary copy, it's not really ready to share.
>
> Versions of the other two which will be used as source to the typesetter program are at http://fury.shavian.org . If someone could cast an eye over them, especially "Androcles", and let me know of any markup errors, that would be very helpful.
>
> The actual typesetting will happen when I have a little more spare time. (I'm in the middle of writing a tech book, so I have less time than usual to do whatever I like.)
>
> Thomas
>

Thomas,

Further on, we have another inline direction ("A trumpet is heard from
the arena.") appearing as the Editor's words:

"The Editor
Then get out of the way and hold your noise. (Androcles steps aside
with cheerful docility.)
Now then! Are you all ready there? A trumpet is heard from the arena."
__________________

A little later, we have the speaker identified as "Ferrovius Only":

"Ferrovius
Burn the incense! Never.

Lavinia
That is only pride, Ferrovius.

Ferrovius Only
pride! What is nobler than pride? Conscience stricken
Oh, I'm steeped in sin. I'm proud of my pride."
__________________

Near the end:
"All, Christians and gladiators' alike, fly for
their lives ..."
should have no apostrophe after "gladiators".
__________________

Regards,
Yahya

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <tthurman@...> wrote:
>
> Other than "Alice", I was asked for three documents typeset in
Shavian:
>
> * Androcles
> * Shakespeare's sonnets
> * Whitman's Leaves of Grass
>
> "Leaves of Grass" is fairly huge, and although I have a preliminary
copy, it's not really ready to share.
>
> Versions of the other two which will be used as source to the
typesetter program are at http://fury.shavian.org . If someone could
cast an eye over them, especially "Androcles", and let me know of any
markup errors, that would be very helpful.
>
> The actual typesetting will happen when I have a little more spare
time. (I'm in the middle of writing a tech book, so I have less time
than usual to do whatever I like.)
>
> Thomas
>