Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

This is a bit off the subject, but I felt I should mention the following point about
the Cherokee syllabary.

Sequoia originally designed his letters to be completely different from any
then used by the white man. Some of his original writings, including a
complete listing of his alphabet in his own hand, have been preserved. None
of the letters look like the Latin alphabet.

However, most of the letters were very complicated with many curves and
bends. It worked okay among the Cherokees when everything was hand-
written.

The problem was printing. At that time, each letter for a font had to be carved
into the end of a piece of steel, then punched into a piece of copper to make
a mold for casting type. Missionaries wanted to print religious material in
the syllabary, but many of the letters were just too complicated to file onto a
piece of steel. So they persuaded Sequoia to adapt some Latin letters as
replacements into his alphabet.

(See _Beginning Cherokee_, University of Oklahoma Press, 1977, ISBN 0-8061-1463-0, for pictures of the original syllabary.)

--Phillip Driscoll
phild@... <mailto:phild@...>

On 27 Mar 99, at 1:23, A.M.Callaway wrote:

> * -----Original Message-----
> * From: Dennis Falk [mailto:quozl@...]
> * (I live in rural California, up in the Redwoods, which
> * are named for another inventor of an alphabet- Sequoia... :)
> Sequoia? Do tell...

"Sequoyah borrowed many of his characters from English, but since he actually neither spoke nor read English, they represent completely different sounds in the two languages. The letter D, for example, is pronounced a, while h is pronounced ni, W is pronounced la, and Z is pronounced no. But the Sequoyah syllabary has remained in use to the present day, with no modifications considered necessary in 150 years. That an unlettered hunter and craftsman could complete a task now undertaken only by highly trained linguists must surely rank as one of the most impressive intellectual feats achieved by a single man."

From: Kenneth Katzner, The Languages of the World (new edition), ISBN 0-415-11809-3, pp. 262-263

Cheers,
Philip


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F'm stRtiN wxk on H sentral sFt nQ - nuTiN sabstAnSal t stRt wiH, Just sumTiN t 'fil H spEs'.

eni ofDiNz fP it? if sO plIz send Hem t mI sO HE kAn bI inklMdid. His iz not mF On pxsanal proJekt; it iz sapOst t reprazent H intFD SEvian kamVniti. F'm Just stRtiN it of, HAt's Yl.

HANks,

/hV
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F'm stRtiN wxk on H sentral sFt nQ 
 
wX?
 
Cheers,
Philip


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in sci.lang, undD H Tred tFtl 'an "FdIl" skript?', sumwun menSand SEvWn, n sevDal pIpl didnt nO abQt it (fP igzympl, Steinar Midtskogen n Chris S.). duz sumwun pDhAps wont t enlFtan Hem? F just pOstid sumTiN SPt, but pxhAps sumwun wonts t Ad a litl mP dItEl.

In sci.lang, under the thread title 'An "ideal" script?', someone mentioned Shavian, and several people didn't know about it (e.g. Steinar Midtskogen and Chris S.). Does someone perhaps want to enlighten them? I just posted something short, but perhaps someone wants to add a little more detail.


Cheers,

Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
Datenrevision GmbH, a Hummingbird Company
Tel: +49-40-797 007-37
Fax: +49-40-797 007-10

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Evenin' Hugh (and all)

I'll start with my infant web site, now barely two weeks old: www.ozemail.com.au/~acal <http://www.ozemail.com.au/~acal> . Precious little on it yet but some links to Ross', Hugh's and Bob's sites. More to come.

Secondly, as I have mentioned before, I'm working on a translator that will take words from English and translate them to Shavian (or whatever you want). Here is a sample of what it can do now:

fEmus kwOts

dupreSun iz mirlI ANgx wiTQt enTMzIAzum.

driNk {??} SIz kjMt, but stop bufYr Hu wediN.

Igulz mE sYr, but {??} dOnt get sukt intM Jet enJunz.

xlI bxd gets Hu wxm, but Hu sekund mQs gets Hu cIz.

Fm not cIp, but F Am on speSul His wIk.

F YlmOst hAd u sFkik gxlfrend but SI left mI bufYr wI met.

F drFv wE tM fAst tM wxI ubQt kulestxYl.

F intend tM lFv fxevx - sO for, sO gUd.

F luv dufenslus Anumulz, uspeSlI un u gUd grEvI.

if borbI iz sO popjulx, wF dM jM hAv tM bF hx frendz?

mentul bAkup un progres - dM not distxb!

kwontum mukAniks: Hu drImz stuf iz mEd uv.

supYrt bAktirIu - Her Hu OnlI kulcx sum pIpul hAv.

teluvAnJulusts: Hu prO reslxz uv ruliJun.

Hu OnlI substutMt fYr gUd mAnxz iz fAst rIfleksuz.

AmbiSun iz u pUr ikskjMs fYr not hAviN unuf sens tM bI
lEzI.

bjMtI iz un Hu F uv Hu bir hOldx...

if evrITiN sImz tM bI gOiN wel, jM hAv obvIuslI OvxlUkt
sumTiN.
wen Fm not un mF rFt mFnd, mF left mFnd gets pritI krQdud.

evrIwun hAz u fOtugrAfik memxI. sum dOnt hAv film.

bqkot SAmpM! dimAnd Hu rIl pM!

wut hApunz if jM get skerd hAf tM deT twFs?

F kUdunt ruper jYr brEks, sO F mEd jYr hYrn lQdx.

Sin: u divFs fYr fFndiN fxnicx un Hu dork.

wF dM sFkiks hAv tM Ask jM fYr jYr nEm?

wer SYrt slIvz! supYrt jYr rFt tM ber ormz!

kYrdxq pilOz: Her mEkiN hedlFnz!

blAk hOlz or wer god divFdud bF zirO.

Yl HOz hM bulIv un sFkOkunIsus rEz mF hAnd.

You will notice the {??} appearing in the text. That's where the program couldn't find the word in the dictionary. Also, you may not agree with the spelling in all cases. Anyway, maybe this is something worth considering for the web site, either the program itself or its output.


Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@...



-----Original Message-----
From: Hugh Birkenhead [mailto:mixsynth@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 1999 9:47
To: Shavian Mailing List
Subject: [shavian] WEB SITE STARTED



F'm stRtiN wxk on H sentral sFt nQ - nuTiN sabstAnSal t stRt wiH, Just sumTiN t 'fil H spEs'.

eni ofDiNz fP it? if sO plIz send Hem t mI sO HE kAn bI inklMdid. His iz not mF On pxsanal proJekt; it iz sapOst t reprazent H intFD SEvian kamVniti. F'm Just stRtiN it of, HAt's Yl.

HANks,

/hV


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A little off topic - but, it's a big day for a not very well known writing system.

Today, April first 1999, is the birthday of the Inuit homeland of Nunavut, in northern Canada. Its native language is Inuktitut, written by some speakers in an Evans syllabary (which will be supported in Unicode, but at the moment I think they'd have to display it on the Web in graphics), by others in Roman. Sort of like Shavians! www.nunavutcelebrations.com will lead you to pages entirely in Inuktitut, which the writer chooses to set entirely in capitals:

ONA PIKSAKAKTOK JAVASCRIPT-MIK. TAKOYAKHAOYOT ATOKLOGO NETSCAPE 3.0 OVVALO 4.0, OVVALO INTERNET EXPLORER AMMALO KOLAANETTOT KONNGIGOTIT.

A great day for a language small only in the number of its speakers!

Bob Richmond
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html

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*
* Some time ago, I cannot recall quite when, I spoke of a poster
* I had made about the Shavian alphabet, which we said was
* also available as an Acrobat PDF file. It can be found here:
*
* www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/satf/index.html
*
Er, it didn't happen, oh evil one. Are you sure that URL is right?
Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@...


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>* Some time ago, I cannot recall quite when, I spoke of a poster
>* I had made about the Shavian alphabet, which we said was
>* also available as an Acrobat PDF file. It can be found here:
>*
>* www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/satf/index.html
>*
>Er, it didn't happen, oh evil one. Are you sure that URL is right?
>Toodle-Pip
>A.M.Callaway
>acal@...


It worked okay for me.

Phillip Driscoll
phild@...



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x... abQt His pOstD... fP sum unnOn rIzan, H mesiJiz abQt it HAt '/TWdP /fiS' sent did not txn up in mF mElboks; F hAd t rId Hem from H web sFt insted. eniwun got eni FdW wF His hApand?

/hV
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-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Driscoll <phild@c4systm.COM>
To: Shavian eGroup <shavian@...>
Date: 03 April 1999 7:21 am
Subject: [shavian] Re: Anyone want to enlighten sci.lang?


>>* Some time ago, I cannot recall quite when, I spoke of a poster
>>* I had made about the Shavian alphabet, which we said was
>>* also available as an Acrobat PDF file. It can be found here:
>>*
>>* www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/den/shavian/satf/index.html
>>*
>>Er, it didn't happen, oh evil one. Are you sure that URL is right?
>>Toodle-Pip
>>A.M.Callaway
>>acal@...
>
>
>It worked okay for me.
>
>Phillip Driscoll
>phild@...


It works okay for me, too, when I check it. Try saving the PDF file
to your hard drive, then opening it from there.


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