Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

How would one go about "posting in Shavian"? Is there a way of
representing it (presumably with escape characters) in Roman
letters? I downloaded Ghoti Fingers. Would that be of help?

Thanks,
Jim Weaver

--- In shavian@y..., "Steve Bett" <stbett@y...> wrote:
> Robert
>
> There are ten fonts available for downloading in the file section
on
> the discussion group server
> http://groups.yahoo.com/grop/shavian/files
>
> Some are not described well enough to determine which is which.
> I don't know if Discoll's ShawSans2 is there or not.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In shavian@y..., "Robert S. Reeser" <reeser@c...> wrote:
> > What fonts are preferred for posting in Shavian? (I like Philip
> Driscoll's
> > ShawSans2; is that o.k.?)


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How about a simple flag / logo with just Sy on it?
Ewout

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Now available is a development release of txt2shaw: a very simple Roman text
to Keyboard Shavian text filter. The CMU phoneme dictionary is used to map
English words to phonemes, then phonemes are mapped to Shaw characters:

unQnsiN u divelupmunt rIlIs v txt2shaw: u verI simpul /rOmun
tekst t /kIbYrd [Shavian] tekst filtx. H [CMU] [phoneme]
dikSunerI iz jMzd t mAp /iNgliS wxdz t [phonemes], Hen
[phonemes] yr mApt t /SY kAriktxz.

This is a work in progress, so non-developers might wait until it's
more solid.

To download, vist: http://www.enetis.net/~mitch/shavian.html

The abbreviations suggested in the end matter of "Androcles and the Lion"
are fully implemented, with the default being the standard four: the, and,
of, to. More aggressive abbreviation levels are also provided. Instead of
following the spelling conventions adopted by some of the Shavian community,
the straightforward phonemic dictionary spelling is used. For example, words
such as "city" will map to "sitI" instead of the "siti" as appears in
Androcles.

It is written in Perl and should run without change on any Unix or Linux
system, and with a little work on others for which Perl is available.
In addition to Perl, the GNU gzip program is required. See www.perl.com
and www.gnu.org for these.

txt2shaw is free software under the GNU General Public License.

See also Rosetta by Andy Callaway:
http://www.geocities.com/andy_callaway/Rosetta.html

--
Mitchell Perilstein
mitch@...
www.enetis.net/~mitch
+1 (605) 574-2367


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I tried to oblige Mr. Stam, but, in the end, I couldn't resist a little iconography.

PS: Could Mr. Stam oblige me and send his name spelled out in Shavian?








How about a simple flag / logo with just Sy on it?

Ewout


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--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk


"wun simpol iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd /SY

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--- In shavian@y..., Robert McBroom <info@o...> wrote:
> I tried to oblige Mr. Stam, but, in the end, I couldn't resist a
> little iconography.
>


Interesting. This way it looks a little more personal. A clear
connection between the script and the person behind it.

> PS: Could Mr. Stam oblige me and send his name spelled out in
Shavian?

stym

(pronounce the 'y' a little shorter in duration).

My first name (Ewout) can be spelled in Shaw too:

EvQt or EwQt

(The Dutch 'w' is a little in between those too. I consider both as
correct.)


(I'm sorry I couldn't get the fonts right, it's a web-based text only
system I'm using here, I'm not at home right now)

Yours,

Ewout


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(late reply, sorry, but I saw it still lying around in my inbox.

Anyway, there are special fonts available, with the keys mapped
out to the normal keyboard. For some characters, you simply need
to press shift first.

I created a few stickers with shavian characters on them and pasted them on
my
keyboard (especially the vowels). This really eases the learning process.

Ewout.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: jlweaver@... <jlweaver@...>
Aan: shavian@... <shavian@...>
Datum: zondag 23 september 2001 15:44
Onderwerp: [shavian] Re: Fonts?


>How would one go about "posting in Shavian"? Is there a way of
>representing it (presumably with escape characters) in Roman
>letters? I downloaded Ghoti Fingers. Would that be of help?
>
>Thanks,
>Jim Weaver
>
>--- In shavian@y..., "Steve Bett" <stbett@y...> wrote:
>> Robert
>>
>> There are ten fonts available for downloading in the file section
>on
>> the discussion group server
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/grop/shavian/files
>>
>> Some are not described well enough to determine which is which.
>> I don't know if Discoll's ShawSans2 is there or not.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> --- In shavian@y..., "Robert S. Reeser" <reeser@c...> wrote:
>> > What fonts are preferred for posting in Shavian? (I like Philip
>> Driscoll's
>> > ShawSans2; is that o.k.?)
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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Hi all,

For those interested in alphabet design, here are the 20 most
common phonemes, pairs, and triples of phonemes as they occur
in individual English words. This is from a quick scan of the
CMU dictionary (write me for details).

There could be two uses for this. First, the more commonly
used phonemes could be written with easier strokes in your
favorite phonetic alphabet. For example, L is the fourth most
common phoneme, but in Quickscript has two curves, so is not as
efficient as other phonemes less used. (Perhaps that's because
of letter joining concerns in QS?) In the first Shaw
alphabet, it's only one curve.

Second, compression. We can already abbreviate common words
with consonants, but perhaps a very few new symbols could be
used to represent common paired or tripled phoneme sequences
within words (as opposed to joining two existing symbols).

The CMU dict and phoneme definitions are here: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict

I hope someone will find this useful!


freq phones freq diphones freq triphones
---- ------ ---- -------- ---- ---------
76691 AH 21739 AH-N 3521 M-AH-N
57683 N 12026 AH-L 2602 SH-AH-N
47502 S 9090 S-T 2198 AH-N-Z
46844 L 7129 IH-NG 2076 AH-N-T
45599 T 6955 M-AH 1977 S-AH-N
43619 R 6748 R-AH 1749 T-AH-N
40371 K 6637 T-AH 1537 AH-S-T
36550 IH 6498 AH-S 1527 K-AH-N
33008 IY 6216 L-AH 1468 AH-N-D
30450 D 6050 AA-R 1449 B-AH-L
27944 M 5991 R-IY 1377 L-AH-N
27606 ER 5927 S-AH 1366 K-AH-L
26627 EH 5771 AO-R 1350 EY-SH-AH
25735 Z 5708 N-T 1343 AH-N-S
23504 AA 5704 K-AH 1338 T-AH-D
20549 AE 5667 IH-N 1315 AE-N-D
19904 B 5387 L-IY 1271 S-T-R
18540 P 5230 AE-N 1182 T-IH-NG
17971 OW 5206 N-AH 1131 L-IH-NG
12936 F 5155 IH-K 1129 S-T-AH
12909 G 5096 N-D 1104 R-AH-N



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Hi Mitch,

It look's like we both spent time on this research on the CMU pronunciation dictionary. My conclusion was the data I compiled in an effort to find the most frequent sounds or phonemes was totally useless to me because I never write the dictionary and seldom use probably 95 percent of it. The words that I use 95 percent of the time are most likely only about 5 or 10 percent of the dictionary.

I would like to see results of a frequency count compiled from phonemes as they are really used. Also, I'd like to see a frequency count of phonemes, diphones, triphones, word combinations and phrases compiled.

I've done some additional research on the words I use and am willing to share my results of phonemes descending by frequency list if you are interested.

Lee

===
on 10/9/01 2:15 AM, em pee wrote:



Hi all,

For those interested in alphabet design, here are the 20 most
common phonemes, pairs, and triples of phonemes as they occur
in individual English words. This is from a quick scan of the
CMU dictionary (write me for details).

There could be two uses for this. First, the more commonly
used phonemes could be written with easier strokes in your
favorite phonetic alphabet. For example, L is the fourth most
common phoneme, but in Quickscript has two curves, so is not as
efficient as other phonemes less used. (Perhaps that's because
of letter joining concerns in QS?) In the first Shaw
alphabet, it's only one curve.

Second, compression. We can already abbreviate common words
with consonants, but perhaps a very few new symbols could be
used to represent common paired or tripled phoneme sequences
within words (as opposed to joining two existing symbols).

The CMU dict and phoneme definitions are here: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict

I hope someone will find this useful!


freq phones freq diphones freq triphones
---- ------ ---- -------- ---- ---------
76691 AH 21739 AH-N 3521 M-AH-N
57683 N 12026 AH-L 2602 SH-AH-N
47502 S 9090 S-T 2198 AH-N-Z
46844 L 7129 IH-NG 2076 AH-N-T
45599 T 6955 M-AH 1977 S-AH-N
43619 R 6748 R-AH 1749 T-AH-N
40371 K 6637 T-AH 1537 AH-S-T
36550 IH 6498 AH-S 1527 K-AH-N
33008 IY 6216 L-AH 1468 AH-N-D
30450 D 6050 AA-R 1449 B-AH-L
27944 M 5991 R-IY 1377 L-AH-N
27606 ER 5927 S-AH 1366 K-AH-L
26627 EH 5771 AO-R 1350 EY-SH-AH
25735 Z 5708 N-T 1343 AH-N-S
23504 AA 5704 K-AH 1338 T-AH-D
20549 AE 5667 IH-N 1315 AE-N-D
19904 B 5387 L-IY 1271 S-T-R
18540 P 5230 AE-N 1182 T-IH-NG
17971 OW 5206 N-AH 1131 L-IH-NG
12936 F 5155 IH-K 1129 S-T-AH
12909 G 5096 N-D 1104 R-AH-N



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I would be interested in your findings on usage-based frequency.

Thanks,

James L. (Jim) Weaver,
Chief Scientist
Learning Assistant Technologies, Inc.
4201 S. Washington St.
Marion, IN 46953
765.677.2685


-----Original Message-----
From: shavian@... [mailto:shavian@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 8:55 AM
To: shavian@...
Subject: Re: [shavian] Phoneme Frequencies
Importance: Low


Hi Mitch,

It look's like we both spent time on this research on the CMU
pronunciation dictionary. My conclusion was the data I compiled in an
effort
to find the most frequent sounds or phonemes was totally useless to me
because I never write the dictionary and seldom use probably 95 percent of
it. The words that I use 95 percent of the time are most likely only about
5
or 10 percent of the dictionary.

I would like to see results of a frequency count compiled from phonemes
as they are really used. Also, I'd like to see a frequency count of
phonemes, diphones, triphones, word combinations and phrases compiled.

I've done some additional research on the words I use and am willing to
share my results of phonemes descending by frequency list if you are
interested.

Lee

===
on 10/9/01 2:15 AM, em pee wrote:

>> Hi all,
>>
>> For those interested in alphabet design, here are the 20 most
>> common phonemes, pairs, and triples of phonemes as they occur
>> in individual English words. This is from a quick scan of the
>> CMU dictionary (write me for details).
>>
>> There could be two uses for this. First, the more commonly
>> used phonemes could be written with easier strokes in your
>> favorite phonetic alphabet. For example, L is the fourth most
>> common phoneme, but in Quickscript has two curves, so is not as
>> efficient as other phonemes less used. (Perhaps that's because
>> of letter joining concerns in QS?) In the first Shaw
>> alphabet, it's only one curve.
>>
>> Second, compression. We can already abbreviate common words
>> with consonants, but perhaps a very few new symbols could be
>> used to represent common paired or tripled phoneme sequences
>> within words (as opposed to joining two existing symbols).
>>
>> The CMU dict and phoneme definitions are here:
>> http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict
>>
>> I hope someone will find this useful!
>>
>>
>> freq phones freq diphones freq triphones
>> ---- ------ ---- -------- ---- ---------
>> 76691 AH 21739 AH-N 3521 M-AH-N
>> 57683 N 12026 AH-L 2602 SH-AH-N
>> 47502 S 9090 S-T 2198 AH-N-Z
>> 46844 L 7129 IH-NG 2076 AH-N-T
>> 45599 T 6955 M-AH 1977 S-AH-N
>> 43619 R 6748 R-AH 1749 T-AH-N
>> 40371 K 6637 T-AH 1537 AH-S-T
>> 36550 IH 6498 AH-S 1527 K-AH-N
>> 33008 IY 6216 L-AH 1468 AH-N-D
>> 30450 D 6050 AA-R 1449 B-AH-L
>> 27944 M 5991 R-IY 1377 L-AH-N
>> 27606 ER 5927 S-AH 1366 K-AH-L
>> 26627 EH 5771 AO-R 1350 EY-SH-AH
>> 25735 Z 5708 N-T 1343 AH-N-S
>> 23504 AA 5704 K-AH 1338 T-AH-D
>> 20549 AE 5667 IH-N 1315 AE-N-D
>> 19904 B 5387 L-IY 1271 S-T-R
>> 18540 P 5230 AE-N 1182 T-IH-NG
>> 17971 OW 5206 N-AH 1131 L-IH-NG
>> 12936 F 5155 IH-K 1129 S-T-AH
>> 12909 G 5096 N-D 1104 R-AH-N
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>> finalURL =
>>
>"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168643.1620686.3205344.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213
030
>> :HM/A=816901/R=0/*http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?cid=12973";
>> finalURL2 =
>>
>"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168643.1620686.3205344.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213
030
>>
>:HM/A=816901/R=1/*http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=DEPARTMENT_I
D=2
>> 2=12969=f"; finalURL3 =
>>
>"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168643.1620686.3205344.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213
030
>>
>:HM/A=816901/R=2/*http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=DEPARTMENT_I
D=3
>> 0=12968=f"; finalURL4 =
>>
>"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168643.1620686.3205344.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213
030
>>
>:HM/A=816901/R=3/*http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=DEPARTMENT_I
D=3
>> 5=12967=f"; finalURL5 =
>>
>"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=168643.1620686.3205344.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213
030
>>
>:HM/A=816901/R=4/*http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=DEPARTMENT_I
D=2
>> 1=12970=f"; var flashFileURL =
>> "http://us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/overstock_com/redosyahoo.swf"; var
>noFlashImg =
>> "http://us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/overstock_com/osyahooalt.jpg"; function
>> makeNewWindow(url) { var newWindow = window.open(url); }
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:55:23 -0600
Lee Hickenlooper <leehickenlooper@...> wrote:

| I would like to see results of a frequency count compiled from phonemes
| as they are really used. Also, I'd like to see a frequency count of
| phonemes, diphones, triphones, word combinations and phrases compiled.

Agreed. The dict answered how often do they occur in the dict, not really how
often they occur in writing. It would be easy to extend the dict program to do this.

Can anyone suggest a useful, modern corpus? It seems the problem is
how to find one that embodies how *most* people write:
- The Gutenburg archive and other free texts have old writings in them (wherefore art thou...).
- Usenet postings have lots of modern writing, but lots of non-native speakers' writings and
lots of those who chose not to (War3Z, D00dZ) and spam (FREE SEX!!!)
- We could grab the news wires, but who writes like journalists? Maybe if we skip headlines.

My vote would be to pick just a few large writings by several authors if we could agree on
whose. Must be free, in plain text or HTML. Must not be domain-specific, or it will throw off
the count.

Later, - Mitch

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