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In the Unicode proposal for Shavian at http://www.unicode.org/pending/
shavian/shavian.html , the letter NUN is written as RUN, not to
mention the IPA renditions of the letters are all messed up.



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Your request for a Shavian flag has come at a good time - we Americans could use some diversion from the grizzly events of the last week, events which occurred just two hours south.

My humble submission is attached. While it may not prove capable of embroidery, it should be, at least, web-worthy.

We Americans seem to love 3-letter acronyms (NBC, CNN, IBM, ATT etc.) so I thought a three-letter tribute to our founding Genius might be appropriate. After all, he is one of the few men of modern times whose initials are as famous as his name, and his name itself has spawned its own adjective.

Some may find the color scheme a little to English for the Irish Shaw, but I don't think anybody really has a copyright on red, white, and blue.



Is there a flag or icon that represents Shavian? I am producing
an educational product and am planning on including a bit of
Shavian text and would like a flag to go with the text.

Possibilities that I can think of include:

- A Dublin flag (birthplace of Shaw)
- A Hertfordshire flag (where Shaw died, which is connected with
the birth of Shavian, but there doesn't seem to be such a flag...)
- A flag containing icons from Androcles and the Lion
- Something connected with Kingsley Read

Ideally it would be simple and attractive.

I would think that someone with more than my little knowledge of
Shaw, Read, and / or Shavian should be able to give better

ideas.



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On 16 Sep 01, at 13:20, Robert McBroom wrote:

> We Americans seem to love 3-letter acronyms (NBC, CNN, IBM, ATT etc.)
> so I thought a three-letter tribute to our founding Genius might be
> appropriate. After all, he is one of the few men of modern times
> whose initials are as famous as his name, and his name itself has
> spawned its own adjective.

Um, I would suggest either G-B-S or (preferably) J-B-SH. After all,
it's "/JPJ" and not "/george" :)

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>

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spizzgat@... scripsit:

> In the Unicode proposal for Shavian at http://www.unicode.org/pending
> shavian/shavian.html , the letter NUN is written as RUN,

Mea culpa: I made that error when typing out the Conscript Unicode version,
from which the Unicode proposal was cloned. I will make sure it is fixed.

> not to
> mention the IPA renditions of the letters are all messed up.

They are encoded in Unicode, and look fine if you use a Unicode
font such as Bitstream Cyberbit or Code 2000.

--
John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@...
Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact,
at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door.
--sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan

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I like the flag - I'd use it - however the first letter should really be 'J', as in 'JPJ'.

Hugh B
www.mixsynth.btinternet.co.uk <http://www.mixsynth.btinternet.co.uk>


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert McBroom <mailto:info@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Flag / Icon

Your request for a Shavian flag has come at a good time - we Americans could use some diversion from the grizzly events of the last week, events which occurred just two hours south.

My humble submission is attached. While it may not prove capable of embroidery, it should be, at least, web-worthy.

We Americans seem to love 3-letter acronyms (NBC, CNN, IBM, ATT etc.) so I thought a three-letter tribute to our founding Genius might be appropriate. After all, he is one of the few men of modern times whose initials are as famous as his name, and his name itself has spawned its own adjective.

Some may find the color scheme a little to English for the Irish Shaw, but I don't think anybody really has a copyright on red, white, and blue.



Is there a flag or icon that represents Shavian? I am producing
an educational product and am planning on including a bit of
Shavian text and would like a flag to go with the text.

Possibilities that I can think of include:

- A Dublin flag (birthplace of Shaw)
- A Hertfordshire flag (where Shaw died, which is connected with
the birth of Shavian, but there doesn't seem to be such a flag...)
- A flag containing icons from Androcles and the Lion
- Something connected with Kingsley Read

Ideally it would be simple and attractive.

I would think that someone with more than my little knowledge of
Shaw, Read, and / or Shavian should be able to give better

ideas.



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________________________________




--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk


"wun simpol iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd /SY

You guys are, of course, absolutely correct.


I noticed the same thing - about 5 minutes after I pushed the "send" button. But by that time there was no place to hide. I guess 6 months of study has not gotten me completely free from the tyranny of "ay...bee...cee..."


Ironically, my first effort was spelled "gbs" but I caught my error and smugly corrected it to "gbS". Oh well.


I have attached the corrected version.


And one afterthought: Could the instigator of this little contest really have meant "logo" when he wrote "flag"? These days, there is a lot more use for a decent logo than a flag, unless he's going to start a Shavian Scout Troop.

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Dear Bob,

George Bernard Shaw was known as G.B.S. It was, in his day, always written in capitals with the full stops (periods) between the letters and pronounced “gee bee ess” to which he was usually referred. I fail to see the logic of using letters, for your logo/flag, of the phonetic alphabet that would probably spell the word something like

gI bI S. As it is written in phonetic script without punctuation, I, an ignorant beginner, would imagine it to be a word, to be pronounced something like “guhbuhes” and have no clue of what it signified. In short, I think the Shavian alphabet quite unsuitable for indicating initials. Full stops between the letters are, surely essential, if you wish to indicate that they are not meant to be combined, but read separately. Should not the capital letter symbol, too, be used? - /g./b./s.

Alas, I cannot understand Hugh Birkenshaw’s comment :- “I like the flag - I'd use it - however the first letter should really be 'J', as in 'JPJ'. Although I do understand the use of the J sign J for George, I cannot see it working as an initial for G. The names of the letters of the English Alphabet were one of the things that G.B.S. fought against because they bear almost no relationship to the way the letter is sounded; B called bee usually sounded as buh P as puh; G is guh in Gill and juh in Jill.

Should one not, under the circumstances use the word SHAW on your logo/flag? The full name, George Bernard Shaw might be possible, also, as the layman will take it to be an Arabic script, anyway, so we might as well have something that a student of Shavian can understand, n’est pas?

Shaw, himself, preferred to be known as Bernard Shaw as he hated the name George. He liked G.B.S., however.

May I ask whether there is any significance in the colours you have chosen?

Personally, I do think that a logo should be either deep-etched or, in this case, in a circle, not a rectangle, to give the feeling of universality – which is, I think the ultimate aim of the Shavian alphabet.

Forgive my presumption in pointing out these things, about which I know little, but you have invited comment.

Regards, Quentin Kyle. (I share an e-mail address, which is cutler@....


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Robert

There are ten fonts available for downloading in the file section on
the discussion group server
http://groups.yahoo.com/grop/shavian/files

Some are not described well enough to determine which is which.
I don't know if Discoll's ShawSans2 is there or not.

Steve

--- In shavian@y..., "Robert S. Reeser" <reeser@c...> wrote:
> What fonts are preferred for posting in Shavian? (I like Philip
Driscoll's
> ShawSans2; is that o.k.?)


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