Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

On 1 May 02, at 12:02, RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:

> Bob Richmond
> Knoxville TN (occasionally pronounced K-Town)

Hey! K-Town is Kaiserslautern in south-west Germany! (Where there is a
US army base.)

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=681221441>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Hi Philip Newton!

>>Hey! K-Town is Kaiserslautern in south-west Germany! (Where there is a US
army base.)<<

Don't I know! I lived there for two years 1953-55, graduated from the
American high school there, and am the president of the Fifties chapter of
the school's alumni association. See my Web pages beginning at
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/germany.html

The big Army post (there's no such thing as an Army base) west of
Kaiserslautern is called Vogelweh.

Knoxville is occasionally called K-Town. I think the gay community here uses
this name.

Bob Richmond


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=816301336>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

--- usmaak <usmaak@...> wrote: > You might want to take a
look at the Read_Alphabet group here at
> Yahoo. It is about the Quickscript method of writing. It has
> optional characters that represent the sounds that Shavian does not
> have single characters for. It is pretty interesting stuff.

go to http://quikscript.teraiten.cjb.net/ for more information about
Quickscript and typing in Shavian and Quickscript

>
> -Scott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rubik67
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:20 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Questions, and a proposal.
>
>
> I just discovered Shavian writing on the 18th, and by the 20th I
> was
> so royally pissed with standard English spelling I pretty much
> resolved right then and there to bring about the reformation that
>
> Shaw wanted, even if I had to do it solo. However, I have a
> couple of
> questions about the alphabet. First of all, what's the difference
> in
> pronunciation between "o" (short), "ah", and "awe"? Second, how
> do
> you represent the nasal "i" sound in "ing"? It's somewhere
> between
> "ih" and "ee", but it doesn't seem to have any representation
> anywhere.
> Now for the proposal: As cool as the Shavian alphabet is, there
> appears to be one major flaw in it... the letter "x", which is
> pronounced either "ks" or "gz", depending on context. Shavian,
> unfortunately, doesn't have any similar compound, so there are
> occasional words which actually expand in Shavian (for
> example, "exit", "maxim", etc). To correct this, I suggest adding
> a
> couple of new characters to the standard set, which are a
> combination of the "k" and "s" characters for the unvoiced x, and
> a
> combination of "g" and "s" for the voiced version. To create
> these
> new characters, simply add the top of the "s" character to the
> "k"
> character and the bottom of the "s" to the "g" character. The
> little
> loop extension shouldn't be any longer than half the length of
> the
> top third of the Shavian letter space to prevent blending and
> potential confusion (ie. xi with kp and ix with bg). This will
> eliminate the one and only advantage that standard spelling has
> over
> Shavian.
> As for shawalphabet.com's "Shavian", it seems to violate at least
> two
> of Shaw's proposed rules (ie. pleasant to look at, and everything
>
> being written with a single stroke), so I seriously doubt it can
> be
> considered real Shavian. For now, I'm definitely sticking with
> the
> alphabet provided in Androcles. L8r.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=980846333>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

maraville by the locals thanks, only k-towners and other yankees or
yankee wannabees call it murvul.

For further resourses, please see the musical "the music man" and the
song Iowa.

thank you very much,
Star

--- RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:
> Star writes: >.Hey Bob... I used to live in Maryville.<<
>
> Of course, Maryville, Tennessee (a community to the south of
> Knoxville) is
> pronounced murvle by the locals. - over toward Nashville is
> Gordonsville,
> pronounced gurnjvl. And down past 'Nooga is Whitwell, pronounced
> whuwwll.
>
> Bob Richmond
> Knoxville TN (occasionally pronounced K-Town)
>


=====
Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.
--George E. Woodberry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1000239/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=1020311830%3eM=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1000239/R=1>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1000239/rand=472003085>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Oh, clerk rhyming with work: an er making an er sound, yet another
example as to why we americans are better :)

Just kidding!

--Star

--- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
> On 1 May 02, at 8:28, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > My question is, then: Clerk?
> > If you used ah, wouldn't it be Clark--like the name? as opposed to
> a
> > store clerk?
>
> In (standard, non-rhotic) RP, both "clerk" and "Clark" are pronunced
> like "clahk". The first word doesn't rhyme with "work", even though
> it
> looks as if it should -- it's one of English's strange spellings.
>
> Sort of like the Thames, which is pronounced "Temz", not "Thaymz" or
> "Tamez".
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
>


=====
Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.
--George E. Woodberry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=803938570>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

> Knoxville is occasionally called K-Town. I think the gay community
> here uses
> this name.

no, we maravillians call it K-town, but only long after we have left :P

--Star

=====
Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.
--George E. Woodberry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=374421775>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Of course we British are somewhat phonetically challenged:
Norwich (Norritch, not Norrwitch)
Leicester (Lester, not Leysester)
Loughborough (Luffburra, not Loogabarooga!!)

But:
Connecticut ('Connetticut')?
Arkansas ('Arkensaw')?
Illinois ('Illanoy')?

Phoneticity lacking somewhat in the leftpondian region as well... :)

The Welsh deserve some credit for having the guts to name a town Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. At least they've spelt it phonetically (the concept we English-speakers can't seem to understand) - think what a nightmare it would be if it weren't phonetic!! :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Star Raven <mailto:celestraof12worlds@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Questions, and a proposal.

Oh, clerk rhyming with work: an er making an er sound, yet another
example as to why we americans are better :)

Just kidding!

--Star

--- Philip Newton <philip.newton@... <mailto:philip.newton@...> > wrote:
> On 1 May 02, at 8:28, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > My question is, then: Clerk?
> > If you used ah, wouldn't it be Clark--like the name? as opposed to
> a
> > store clerk?
>
> In (standard, non-rhotic) RP, both "clerk" and "Clark" are pronunced
> like "clahk". The first word doesn't rhyme with "work", even though
> it
> looks as if it should -- it's one of English's strange spellings.
>
> Sort of like the Thames, which is pronounced "Temz", not "Thaymz" or
> "Tamez".
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
>


=====
Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.
--George E. Woodberry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=803938570>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Alright, time for me to be snarky...

--- Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@...> wrote:
> Of course we British are somewhat phonetically challenged:
> Norwich (Norritch, not Norrwitch)
> Leicester (Lester, not Leysester)
> Loughborough (Luffburra, not Loogabarooga!!)
>

You limeys and your silly names for things, add to Connecticut,
Arkansas, Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio, and many other state names are
derived from Native American names for places. For instance, Kentucky
means "land of blood." Isn't that neat?

> But:
> Connecticut ('Connetticut')?
> Arkansas ('Arkensaw')?
> Illinois ('Illanoy')?
>
> Phoneticity lacking somewhat in the leftpondian region as well... :)
>

Like I said, don't blame us for our pronunciation problems, if
anything, we americans should blame you Brits. Our dialect is derrived
from yours. As are the dialects of Austrailia, New Zealand, and
ebonics.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it! Ha!

> The Welsh deserve some credit for having the guts to name a town
> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. At least
> they've spelt it phonetically (the concept we English-speakers can't
> seem to understand) - think what a nightmare it would be if it
> weren't phonetic!! :)

That's Phonetic? I hate to ask, but it does MEAN something, doesn't it?
Anyway, if you want to complain about the lack of phonetic spelling,
Gaelic and French are BOTH easily worse than English.

Phydeux??

I'm just messin' with you, though, I think British and its dialects are
quite beautiful as a spoken language.

Love and luck,
Star


=====
Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure.
--George E. Woodberry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3466>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.2021092.3499911.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1036972/rand=692944547>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Of course, in the USA we inherit a lot of English place names with their
orthographic problems - I'm told that Leicester (a town in western North
Carolina) is pronounced lester by some its inhabitants, LEEcester by others)
- and to that we add the orthographic horrors of Native American names. In
the USA, one knows how to pronounce them if one lives in the area. Thus
Coscituate, Massachusetts (kuh-SITCH-a-wit)
Willamette, Oregon (wuh-LAMM-it)
Nacogdoches, Texas (NACK-a-DOACH-is)
Refugio, Texas (ree-FURY-oh - actually Spanish, of course)
Deseret, Utah (DEZZ-a-ret - looks French, but is "Reformed Egyptian"
and don't even get me started on Hawai'i (where I was born).

I've read that the pronunciation of English place names is in many instances
being conformed to the orthography. Is that true? Will Worcestershire become
WAR-cess-ter-SHIRE rather than WUSTasher?

Is the abbreviation "Hants" - and a couple of similar ones - pronounced as
written?

My middle name (my mother's maiden name, unfortunately for my online
security) is Southwick. My New England Southwicks, as well as the big Utah
Mormon Southwick family (we're probably related) pronounce the name as
written, as do the New England place names that derive from it. According to
the BBC pronunciation guide, it can be southwick or suthick depending on
where you are. And the New England progenitor Lawrence Southwick, signing his
will in the mid 17th century, spelled it Sethick.

Some year the USA should divert a few pence from its dubious wars to create a
pronouncing gazetteer of American place names. With glosses in Shavian, of
course.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1042587/rand=293041113>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

I've read that the pronunciation of English place names is in many instances
being conformed to the orthography. Is that true? Will Worcestershire become
WAR-cess-ter-SHIRE rather than WUSTasher?

No, as far as I can see, this certainly isn't happening to any great extent. There is one notable exception I can think of so far, and that is Coventry: my Grandmother would pronounce it 'Cuventry', whereas everyone these days pronounces it as it is written.

Is the abbreviation "Hants" - and a couple of similar ones - pronounced as written?

Although one would abbreviate it in written form as 'Hants', one would always read it as 'Hampshire'. Only when describing the abbreviation itself would one ever utter 'hants' (to rhyme with 'pants').

My middle name (my mother's maiden name, unfortunately for my online
security) is Southwick. My New England Southwicks, as well as the big Utah Mormon Southwick family (we're probably related) pronounce the name as written, as do the New England place names that derive from it. According to the BBC pronunciation guide, it can be southwick or suthick depending on where you are. And the New England progenitor Lawrence Southwick, signing his will in the mid 17th century, spelled it Sethick.

Yes, most people here say 'Suthick' (soft 'th') for that surname. Just as we have to say 'fanshaw' instead of 'featherstone-haugh'! :)

Some year the USA should divert a few pence from its dubious wars to create a pronouncing gazetteer of American place names. With glosses in Shavian, of course.

We could do that too - I'm sure it would prove interesting, especially if you were to include Welsh place-names! But we British are so damned apathetic about everything I imagine no one will bother for at least another 50 years.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee

Hugh Birkenhead
Norwich (norritch), Norfolk (nor-f*** - I imagine the Yahoo swear filter will catch this one!)

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=217097.2003762.3481930.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1042587/R=0/*http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=29150849&siteid=39282504&bfpage=account>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=217097.2003762.3481930.1829184/D=egroupmail/S=1705213030:HM/A=1042587/rand=293041113>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .