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On 3 May 99, at 1:54, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:

> koments welkam - TANks in advyns fP eni risIvd,

Your message came out looking like this :). Still, thanks to the
similarity of Shavian and English keyboard layouts, I could read it
without having to convert the font. Still,...

And thanks for the link. Have to take a look.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>

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Oops, I goofed. Of course your message was in Shavian. It was just that I
had switched off my mailer's option "show 'fancy' version by default", and
so it gave me plain text instead of the HTML; hence, the font suggestion was
lost. Sorry to bother you.

Cheers,
Philip
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Hugh Birkenhead [mailto:mixsynth@...]
Gesendet am: Montag, 3. Mai 1999 02:54
An: Shavian Mailing List
Betreff: [shavian] More interest on the net than thought...? And elsewhere??

helO agen /SEvia!

[etc.]

It seems that there is a nice new addition to the Mailing list web page: a
members' chat room!

I'm sure it'll be useful if people could talk interactively, but the only
problem is that whenever one person enters, there will almost never be
anyone else to talk to, so they leave.

I think that it would be a nice idea if we agreed on some time during the
day/week that we could all manage - then things could get discussed, because
there would be enough people there to make it possible.

Whaddya say??

Hugh


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On 3 May 99, at 21:03, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:

> It seems that there is a nice new addition to the Mailing list web page: a
> members' chat room!
>
> I'm sure it'll be useful if people could talk interactively, but the only
> problem is that whenever one person enters, there will almost never be
> anyone else to talk to, so they leave.

Ah yes, the bane of all chat rooms :)

> I think that it would be a nice idea if we agreed on some time during the
> day/week that we could all manage - then things could get discussed, because
> there would be enough people there to make it possible.

Interesting problem, especially since we have list members from the US,
Europe, and Australia -- agreeing on a time where everyone will be
awake might be tough.

What alphabet would we discuss things in? Since the chat room is
presumably fixed-font, I suppose it would have to be the Latin
alphabet.

> Whaddya say??

Nice idea. Can't say how much time I'll have at fixed times, though.
One nice thing about e-mail is the asynchronous feature -- sender and
receiver don't have to agree on a time, but can read and write whenever
they want.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>

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Evenin' all (And Philip)

Having taken notice of Philip's suggestions, I'm nearly done on a new Phonetic Translator. This one's about 10% faster on the translation than the existing, but the real speed increase is in loading the dictionary, which is now about 20 times faster. On my machine it loads in about 2 seconds. It's slightly more complex to use, and has a couple of new features. It should be up on my downloads page sometime next week.


Toodle-Pip
A.M.Callaway
acal@...
www.ozemail.com.au/~acal

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I believe a compromise can be made between conformity and
standardization. Two or three popular pronunciations could be selected
for each word, and the writer could pick which one best suits his/her
dialect. I oppose this idea, however, because it would mean a lot of
time finding out what pronunciations are popular and expect people to
stick to your standards. Through time, naturally, I expect certain
spellings to be prominent and others to be rarities, but a writer is
not obliged to stick to a popular spelling. For example, the word
"nuclear" would be spelled nMklID or nVklID by most, and nMkVlD or
nVkVlD frowned upon and only in use by people who stand up for their
erroneous pronunciation. So I guess you could say I support personal
conformity. This is the way people wrote before the printing press was
invented. They would spell according to their pronunciations, so the
word "where" had many spellings including wair, hwair, werr, hwerr,
ware, hware, etc.


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I believe a compromise can be made between conformity and
standardization. Two or three popular pronunciations could be selected
for each word, and the writer could pick which one best suits his/her
dialect. I oppose this idea, however, because it would mean a lot of
time finding out what pronunciations are popular and expect people to
stick to your standards. Through time, naturally, I expect certain
spellings to be prominent and others to be rarities, but a writer is
not obliged to stick to a popular spelling. For example, the word
"nuclear" would be spelled nMklID or nVklID by most, and nMkVlD or
nVkVlD frowned upon and only in use by people who stand up for their
erroneous pronunciation. So I guess you could say I support personal
conformity. This is the way people wrote before the printing press was
invented. They would spell according to their pronunciations, so the
word "where" had many spellings including wair, hwair, werr, hwerr,
ware, hware, etc.


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In response to your questions, I believe these depend on the purpose of
your pangram. If you are using it to show off a Shavian font, I suggest
you use the namer dot and it doesn't matter whether you use the
abbreviations, because it makes no difference. Also, I believe the word
"work" should be spelled wXk, but that's just how I say it.

Toodles,
Levi (that's lIvF, not lIvI! I hate when people call me that.)
:¬)


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As seen in Peter McCarthy's NOTES ON THE SPELLING <http://www.shavian.f9.co.uk/reading.html> (of Shavian), "It would be possible to extend the number of word-signs beyond the four provided for in the design. Thus, common words such as the following could regularly be spelt with a single consonant (the corresponding Roman letter is shown in brackets after each word): for (f), be (b), with (w), he (h), are (r), so (s), do (d). Further economies could be made by writing other common words with two letters, omitting the vowel between initial and final consonants, e.g., that (tht), was (wz), have (hv), not (nt), this (ths), but (bt), from (fm), had (hd), has (hz), been (bn), were (wr), and so on. If such spellings became standardized, these invariable written forms would stand equally well for strong and weak forms in pronunciation, each reader supplying whichever he found appropriate in the context (which is what he does now). Naturally, it would always remain possible for a writer to indicate, by spelling out in full, any particular form he wished -- to avoid ambiguity, or for the sake of emphasis, or in order to specify, for example in stage dialogue, some particular reading. For the reasons given in (6) above, Androcles has been transliterated without any abbreviations save those mentioned in (3) above. It is possible, however, that other abbreviations would come into use for private purposes but not for printing; it is also possible that some might come to be adopted in print as well."

Should there be any extended word-signs and if so, how should we approach this subject?
________________________________

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F dOnt nO if eniwun rimembDz (P Ivan if eniwun nOtist), but F Vst t Vz tM v H ekstra wxd-sFnz: f (fP) n w (wiH). F stil Vz Hem wen rFtiN /SEvian t mFself. F TiNk HAt H wunz in /pItD /makRTi'z nOts wUd bI fFn t Vz enitFm At Yl, bikoz evriwun nOz Hem from H bUk. obviasli, sins His /intDnet kamVniti iz ryHD smYl At prezant, eni 'strEnJ' wxd sFnz wUd bI pikt up bF evribodi strEtawE. F TiNk At prezant wI Yt Onli t stik t H wunz priskrFbd in H bUk, fP ifektiv kamVnikESan'z sEk.

b.t.w. iz eniwun sabskrFbd t H alt.usage.english nVzgrMp, n if sO hAv V bIn rIdiN wot sum pIpal hAv bIn sEiN abQt /SEvian? it sImz mP pIpal dM nO v it HAn woz TYt. weHD HE lFk it P not iz a difDant kwescan, hQevD.

Hugh Birkenhead
http://www.soundbox.freeuk.com

----- Original Message -----
From: nerd525@... <mailto:nerd525@...>
To: shavian@eGroups.com <mailto:shavian@eGroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 8:31 PM
Subject: [shavian] Word-Signs

As seen in Peter McCarthy's NOTES ON THE SPELLING <http://www.shavian.f9.co.uk/reading.html> (of Shavian), "It would be possible to extend the number of word-signs beyond the four provided for in the design. Thus, common words such as the following could regularly be spelt with a single consonant (the corresponding Roman letter is shown in brackets after each word): for (f), be (b), with (w), he (h), are (r), so (s), do (d). Further economies could be made by writing other common words with two letters, omitting the vowel between initial and final consonants, e.g., that (tht), was (wz), have (hv), not (nt), this (ths), but (bt), from (fm), had (hd), has (hz), been (bn), were (wr), and so on. If such spellings became standardized, these invariable written forms would stand equally well for strong and weak forms in pronunciation, each reader supplying whichever he found appropriate in the context (which is what he does now). Naturally, it would always remain possible for a writer to indicate, by spelling out in full, any particular form he wished -- to avoid ambiguity, or for the sake of emphasis, or in order to specify, for example in stage dialogue, some particular reading. For the reasons given in (6) above, Androcles has been transliterated without any abbreviations save those mentioned in (3) above. It is possible, however, that other abbreviations would come into use for private purposes but not for printing; it is also possible that some might come to be adopted in print as well."

Should there be any extended word-signs and if so, how should we approach this subject?
________________________________

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