Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

At 10:24 AM 10/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
>"a.m.callaway" <aca-@...> wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian/?start=275
>> At 07:13 PM 10/8/99 -0400, RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:
>Subject: [shavian] Re: heart and hot
[snip]
>> I've had several responses generally informing me that these sounds
>are
>> distinct. I suppose the CMU dictionary must have them listed as the
>same
>> for simplicity.
>
>Or maybe the compilers of CMU reflected their own dialect. Are there
>items
>in it you disagree with? I think I have seen one or two.
My concern was that there seemed to be a vowel short, as Hot and Heart
would be the same (but for the 'r'.)
But the bottom line is, it's still far superior than TO. :-)

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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At 10:45 AM 10/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
>As someone from the deepest Southern US there is... :)
>Subject: [shavian] Re: Fwd: Sayin's from the US Souf
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I don't think anyone could be offended by this.
I had to be careful.

>Pretty funny stuff!
>
[snip]
"I'll knock you into the middle of next week."
I think this is actually from Lewis Carroll

>"I'll slap you naked and hide your clothes."
Sounds like fun :-)

>There is one thing I would like to clear about Southern
>usage. The (non-) word "y'all" is a contraction of "you all"
In Australia "Youse" (sp?) is sometimes used to indicate plural.

>as serves as a second person plural. Hollywood sometimes
>depicts Southerners as using it for a second person singular.
>There probably are a few who do that now, but they learned it
>from TV, not from their neighbors.
>
>Just in case anyone cares... :)
Actually, in Oz we do sometimes say "G'day", but rarely use "Cobber". So if
you hear someone one TV say "G'day cobber." They are almost certainly a fake.

Er, I think we've drifted off topic...

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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To get back on topic... :)

Though I have an enthusiasm for Shavian, I have difficulty mastering it
again. What's that about an old dog and new tricks? But this dog used to
know that trick.

I have made myself a set of flash cards (is that expression known inter-
nationally?) but haven't much time to use them. By the way, that process
is fairly painless: Obtain some business card stock and print first on
one
side, then the other. Note that in your word processor, the second set
of
cards will have to be reversed left to right, assuming more than one
card
per row.

However, I am working on a piece of software to do much the same thing.
Conceivably it could be done at the character and word level, and could
work in both directions.

Though I intend to generalize the program and eventually sell it, I
will
of course provide it free to those on the Shavian egroup. Anyone
interested?

Andy, you might do such a thing as well as I, especially if you wanted
to
specialize it. I am not much on Windows programming... perhaps you are?

Hal



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Dear Hal,
Great ideas about learning Shavian! I also taped names to some common
things in my home so that I see the Shavian word for "refrigerator" at
least 3 times a day. Unfortunately learning "vacuum cleaner" has taken
much longer.... Also taping the cat was not a successful enterprise.
Dan



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At 11:24 AM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote:
>To get back on topic... :)
>
[snip-o-rama]
>However, I am working on a piece of software to do much the same thing.
>Conceivably it could be done at the character and word level, and could
>work in both directions.
>
>Though I intend to generalize the program and eventually sell it, I
>will
>of course provide it free to those on the Shavian egroup. Anyone
>interested?
>
>Andy, you might do such a thing as well as I, especially if you wanted
>to
>specialize it. I am not much on Windows programming... perhaps you are?
I'll mull on it. I've still got TPT for Windows to do yet. (TPT2000?)

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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At 03:58 PM 10/19/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Dear Hal,
> Great ideas about learning Shavian! I also taped names to some common
>things in my home so that I see the Shavian word for "refrigerator" at
>least 3 times a day. Unfortunately learning "vacuum cleaner" has taken
>much longer.... Also taping the cat was not a successful enterprise.
> Dan
A couple of yards of Gaffa tape should do the trick. :-0

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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Tips for learning Shavian... The one thing that found me finally becoming confident in using all of the Shavian characters was making my Shavian editor, Ghoti Fingers, because it required me to stare at the characters for hours on end while thinking about the program's design and structure. I don't, however, recommend that every learner try to write a Shavian program just to learn the alphabet. The second best thing is what we all need more of anyway: Shavian reading material.

There has been only one piece of Shavian transcription on my web site since I accidentally deleted my John Donne poem. Why don't I transcribe more? Why, because I'm a lazy old tinker. I find transcription quite boring, and I can nearly always think of something much better to do. Hugh seems to have been the most selfless and diligent in performing this arduous scribal task, but his energies and his transcriptions are finite. We need more stuff to read, and we need lots of it.

The obvious solution is Andy's The Phonetic Translator, which transcribes automatically. I've spent some time with this, but I've found that I usually have to edit much of its output, due partly to the characteristics of my accent and dialect, and partly, probably, to the fact that I haven't spent enough time "training" it by tweaking its phonetic dictionary. What puts me off spending more time with it, I think, is that it's a DOS program, and I've been spoilt (can one say this?) by Windows. So, until the Windows version arrives, I reckon I'm stuck with doing things by hand. But I said it before: I'm a lazy, rascally old tinker.

A while ago I planned on starting a small, occasional Shavian magazine-type web page, which would have been written completely in Shavian, and which would have featured Shavian transcriptions and little articles on matters of Shavian, orthographic or generally linguistic interest. I was going to call it The Kingsley Reader. But I just couldn't be bothered.

What I need is to feel somehow that regular acts of transcription are a social duty. What I need, Comrades, is a timetable -- one which, if I flout its edicts, will cause me to be scorned by my peers. Dear fellow shavioscribes, I think that's what you need too. It just won't work without you. How about this?: Everyone who's interested sends me an email expressing their wish to be added to a list of Operatives. From this list, I'll draw up a timetable: every week, say, it'll be someone's turn to transcribe some small piece of English-language writing into the Shavian alphabet. It can be anything: a passage from a novel, a poem, a newspaper article, something from the web -- anything that the transcriber deems worthy of being seared into everyone else's grey matter. (Cachinnate in the face of copyright law: we're only talking about short extracts, say for "review purposes".) It can be written in the scribe's own accent, or in King George V's tongue, or whatever they fancy. When they've done their transcription, they'll upload it to a special folder which we'll create in the eGroups Vault, and also post it to the mailing list.

How about it, folks? Please say yes. It should only mean half an hour's torture every few weeks, and your work will end up in the Shavian public domain, there for us and all tomorrow's Shavian neophytes to read. Send me an email if you're interested, or make your pledge publicly via the mailing list, that others might gurgle at your virtue.

Lionel Ghoti
ghoti@...

PS Talking Ghoti Fingers, the latest version of the virtual Shavian typewriter for Windows 95/98, is still available, as it has been for months now -- free, gratis and for doodley-squat. Talking Ghoti Fingers makes life easier. Get Talking Ghoti Fingers today.
www.shavian.f9.co.uk

PPS Talking Ghoti Fingers was created by a non-programmer fool using Delphi 2, which he got free off a magazine cover-CD. I urge all right-brainers to do likewise: it gives you a perverse feeling of power and helps to bridge that old C.P. Snow gap in your head.


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Hi Lionel Ghoti!

I'll help with the Kingsley Reader.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html

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Hi Lionel Ghoti!

I'll help with the Kingsley Reader.

Bob Richmond
Knoxville, Tennessee
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html

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> Hi Lionel Ghoti!
>
> I'll help with the Kingsley Reader.

So will I.

Hugh Birkenhead
www.funkymusic.co.uk