Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Scott Harrison wrote:



I run Jaguar. If you want to share with me you can.
--Scott


If by Jaguar you mean the make of your car, I'd rather share it.

Why are we still using this stupid Latin script ?

Yenovk



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English Has More Rime Than Reason
by James L. Julian, Ph. D.*
Chairman, Dept. of Journalism, San Diego State College
Reprinted from the Spelling Progress Bulletin and Newell Tune's Anthology, p. 4

The verbal spit-balls being tossed at those allegedly guilty for our horrible spelling skills are largely misdirected.

Frequently pelted are such innocents as grade schools, parents, high schools, television, colleges, comic books, educationists, and even opticians. The real culprit, and a monstrous one it is, is the [written] language itself.

English is an illogical, irrational hodgepodge
vain, vein, & vane rhyme VAn = Vein
comb, bomb, and tomb don't kOm, bcm, twm
him, hymm, and limb ryme but not climb him, lim, clYm

Let's face it. the English [writing system] is an illogical, irrational hodgepodge in which most letters stand for different sounds in different words. Note some absurdities: know rimes (also spelled r-h-y-m-e-s) with no, but not with now. Vain, vein and vane all rime, but: comb, bomb, and tomb do not. Climb doesn't rime with limb, which does with him and hymn.

You'll find nothing to rime in blood, mood, and hood, but you do in isle, I'll, eye'll and aisle. Sow (to plant) doesn't rime with sow (female swine), but it does with sew, hoe, go, and dough. And what's logical about lead (the metal) riming with said, led, and dread, but not with lead (the verb)?

Our language is illogical because years ago orthographers, the people who established "correct" spellings in the dictionaries, goofed on how to select the right spellings. [more <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/news/decodable-irregularity.html> ]

history-prob.html

© 2002 BETA Information Architects



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English Has More Rime Than Reason
by James L. Julian, Ph. D.*
Chairman, Dept. of Journalism, San Diego State College
Reprinted from the Spelling Progress Bulletin and Newell Tune's Anthology, p. 4

The verbal spit-balls being tossed at those allegedly guilty for our horrible spelling skills are largely misdirected.

Frequently pelted are such innocents as grade schools, parents, high schools, television, colleges, comic books, educationists, and even opticians. The real culprit, and a monstrous one it is, is the [written] language itself.

English is an illogical, irrational hodgepodge
vain, vein, & vane rhyme VAn = Vein
comb, bomb, and tomb don't kOm, bcm, twm
him, hymm, and limb ryme but not climb him, lim, clYm

Let's face it. the English [writing system] is an illogical, irrational hodgepodge in which most letters stand for different sounds in different words. Note some absurdities: know rimes (also spelled r-h-y-m-e-s) with no, but not with now. Vain, vein and vane all rime, but: comb, bomb, and tomb do not. Climb doesn't rime with limb, which does with him and hymn.

You'll find nothing to rime in blood, mood, and hood, but you do in isle, I'll, eye'll and aisle. Sow (to plant) doesn't rime with sow (female swine), but it does with sew, hoe, go, and dough. And what's logical about lead (the metal) riming with said, led, and dread, but not with lead (the verb)?

Our language is illogical because years ago orthographers, the people who established "correct" spellings in the dictionaries, goofed on how to select the right spellings. [more <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/news/decodable-irregularity.html> ]

history-prob.html

© 2002 BETA Information Architects



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On Tuesday, September 24, 2002, at 11:21 , Yenovk Lazian wrote:





Scott Harrison wrote:



I run Jaguar. If you want to share with me you can.
--Scott

If by Jaguar you mean the make of your car, I'd rather share it.

Why are we still using this stupid Latin script ?

Yenovk



Sorry, no Jaguar vehicle here. :-(

The reason I still use this Latin script is because most of the list members cannot handle mail messages with Unicode in them. What most people do is use a Latin script and switch the fonts so it appears like Shavian. However, the proper way to send messages in Shavian is to use Unicode. Until that time, I will still use Latin since people complain when I send Unicode.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

Steve,

Is your Shavian Unicode font 8 bit or 16 bit characters?

I still haven't been able to get it to display on my Mac OS X.1 using
Explorer 5. Do I need to switch browsers to something like Omni Web or
whatever?

Lee

on 9/25/02 5:29 AM, Scott Harrison wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, September 24, 2002, at 11:21 , Yenovk Lazian wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Scott Harrison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I run Jaguar. If you want to share with me you can.
>> --Scott
>>
>> If by Jaguar you mean the make of your car, I'd rather share it.
>>
>> Why are we still using this stupid Latin script ?
>>
>> Yenovk
>>
> Sorry, no Jaguar vehicle here. :-(
>
> The reason I still use this Latin script is because most of the list
> members cannot handle mail messages with Unicode in them. What most
> people do is use a Latin script and switch the fonts so it appears like
> Shavian. However, the proper way to send messages in Shavian is to use
> Unicode. Until that time, I will still use Latin since people complain
> when I send Unicode.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
>



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On Wednesday, September 25, 2002, at 04:22 , Lee wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Is your Shavian Unicode font 8 bit or 16 bit characters?
>
> I still haven't been able to get it to display on my Mac OS X.1 using
> Explorer 5. Do I need to switch browsers to something like Omni Web or
> whatever?
>
> Lee
>
Lee,

If you mean Scott when you say Steve, then I will answer. :-)

The Shavian font that I use (and is available on my webpage) is a
True Type font created by Phillip Driscoll (who seems to have
disappeared from the Shavian world altogether). The web pages I put
together are UTF-8, while the text files are 16-bit Unicode files (with
the proper byte order marker at the start so big- and little-endian
machines should be able to read them).

Note that the files use an interim Unicode encoding system since
the Unicode Consortium has not yet decided on the final code points for
Shavian (even though next to Deseret may be where they will be). The
font has the Shavian characters encoded at these points so it should not
be a problem.

To get all this working on X.1 or X.2, just take the font file
(cshaws2u.ttf) and put it in your ~/Library/Fonts directory. This makes
the font available to all applications. If Explorer does not handle the
pages you may need to tweak the fonts used for Unicode pages (since
Explorer really does not grok fonts). However, if you use OmniWeb you
do not need to do anything because it picks up the fact that my pages
are Unicode and get the font from your font library properly. Also,
with TextEdit you will be able to read the text versions of all my files
as well.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86



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--- In shavian@y..., "pvandenbrink11" <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> All of us in the Yahoo group, with exception of Hugh, seem to be on
> the wrong side of 45. Where are all the bright young things?

Well, it all depends what you mean by the "wrong" side of 45. I'm 35
right now, and have finished about 120 pages of a 140 page
transliteration project in preparation for transferring it over to
computerised form. L8r.



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Attached are images of my preliminary idea for a efficient a la dvorak
keyboard layout for shavian. The simple vowels and most used consonants on
the home row and attempted to place letters according to how I perceive
their frequency. Like a french keyboard, you need to hit shift to get the
numbers (and option on a mac to get the super-numeral punctuation marks).
The rhotic vowels are also shifted since there just aren't enough keys.
Despite their obvious graphic origins, I've placed P (or) over O (oak), X
(air) over E (age), and C (ear) over I (eat), because it those make more
sense to me and are easier to reach than over the seldom used ah, awe, and
ian

One thing I haven't given enough thought to is common pairings of letters.
Ideally, consecutive letters on the same hand should be typed from outside
to inside: pinky to index. If you see any problems right off the bat, let
me know. This should be much more efficient than the current layout people
are using, although it would take some effort to learn.

If anyone has any character frequency charts, especially for androcles, let
me know. They would be very helpful.

Craig



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The one thing that occurs to me is that D (array?) is probably used more
than several non-rhotic letters. I realize it "makes sense" for all the
shifted letters to be rhotic, but remember right now everyone tolerates
the QWERTY keyboard, which has no logic whatsoever, and are resistant to
any change.

On Sat, 2002-09-28 at 13:08, Craig Butz wrote:
> Attached are images of my preliminary idea for a efficient a la dvorak
> keyboard layout for shavian. The simple vowels and most used consonants on
> the home row and attempted to place letters according to how I perceive
> their frequency. Like a french keyboard, you need to hit shift to get the
> numbers (and option on a mac to get the super-numeral punctuation marks).
> The rhotic vowels are also shifted since there just aren't enough keys.
> Despite their obvious graphic origins, I've placed P (or) over O (oak), X
> (air) over E (age), and C (ear) over I (eat), because it those make more
> sense to me and are easier to reach than over the seldom used ah, awe, and
> ian
>
> One thing I haven't given enough thought to is common pairings of letters.
> Ideally, consecutive letters on the same hand should be typed from outside
> to inside: pinky to index. If you see any problems right off the bat, let
> me know. This should be much more efficient than the current layout people
> are using, although it would take some effort to learn.
>
> If anyone has any character frequency charts, especially for androcles, let
> me know. They would be very helpful.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz

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Hi Rubik
What is the name of book you are transliterating into the Shaw Alphabet?
Sorry about the invalid assumption on age.
I was concerned that us pre-boomers (i.e. 48) were the only ones who knew
about the alphabet. Androcles has been out of print a long time.
Anyway, I have been transliterating "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn",
with the aid of some volunteers and posting it over at www.shavian.org
under Hugh's Ikonboard for Shaw Messages. It is quite enjoyable work. Are
you going to post your book somewhere accessable?

Regards, Paul V.
____________________attached_________________________
At 12:59 AM 9/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In shavian@y..., "pvandenbrink11" <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > All of us in the Yahoo group, with exception of Hugh, seem to be on
> > the wrong side of 45. Where are all the bright young things?
>
>Well, it all depends what you mean by the "wrong" side of 45. I'm 35
>right now, and have finished about 120 pages of a 140 page
>transliteration project in preparation for transferring it over to
>computerised form. L8r.
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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