I prefer the letter "err" because I also pronounce "array" as two
syllables when it's at the beginnng of a word. And elsewhere, I
don't distinguish it from "err" at all. But I don't suppose it
matters much which letter we use if we're going to use it for both
values. I would prefer to spell "array" with a schwa followed by "r."
--- In shavian@..., "paul vandenbrink"
<pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> Hey Hugh
> After going through a number of these responses, it seems that most
> interested people are interested in retaining in the Shaw
> International Alphabet, the vocalic vowel "r" letter from the
> Original Shaw Alphabet.
> But as there are 2 letters representing this sound (Array, Err),
> which one makes the most sense to add back in?
> Ethan seems to prefer "err", possibly because he could not make
sense
> of "Array". I prefer "Array" for a couple of inconsequential
> reasons. Any other preferences. American accents preferred.
> MAJORITY RULES.
>
>
> Regards, Paul V.
> ___________________attached_________________________________
>
> --- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> > Joe wrote:
> > > The "ah," "on," "awe" distinction seems to vary greatly
> between
> > > accents -- perhaps more than any other sounds, as far as I
know.
> I
> > > also live in Southern Indiana (though I'm originally from Terre
> > > Haute, so my speech is more representative of, that area); and
I
> > > distinguish "awe" when I'm not being lazy with my speech,
> but "ah,"
> > > and "on" both come out like "ah" when I say them. This is the
> way i
> > > talk, but I can't say what the "standard" pronunciation is. It
> just
> > > depends on who's talking.
> > > I take "semi-vowel" as a reference to what I would call an
> > > approximant. This would take a good while to explain fully;
but
> > > suffice to say they're barely impeded, and they're almost like
> vowels.
> > > Actually, "err" is a pure vowel sound. It's a rhotic
schwer
> > > (not schwa). "Err" and "array" don't contain any true R
sounds.
> And
> > > the distinction between them is not really significant. "Err"
> occurs
> > > only in stressed syllables, and "array" occurs only in
unstressed
> > > syllables. The pronunciation is decided by stress, and is no
> more
> > > significant to meaning than the stress is. There is really no
> need
> > > to distinguish them in spelling if you know which syllable to
> > > stress. With that in mind, I wish Reed had created some way to
> > > indicate stress in spelling. I've dabbled in creating some
> > > alternative notations of my own, and the method I've come to
like
> > > best is to use an apostrophe (') before a syllable with primary
> > > stress, and a comma (,) to indicate secondary stress (if
> desired).
> > > Both would come before the syllable they mark. I don't mean to
> try
> > > to change the way we use Shavian, but this could be useful for
> obsure
> > > words or to distinguish between words that are otherwise
> identical.
> > >
> > > -AllegroX
> >
> > Is schwer the IPA symbol that looks like a small 3 with a little
> hook on
> > the top?
> >
> > One good way to determine if a sound is a vowel is if your tongue
> > doesn't touch any part of your mouth while you say it, and it can
> form a
> > syllable by itself. The letter "err" as pronounced by most
> Americans
> > fits this criterion.
> >
> > You mention the letter "array" and its use in unaccented
> syllables. It
> > sounds like something similar to the difference between the
letters
> > "ado" and "up", which I do use, but sometimes inconsistantly. I
> could
> > use "array" for unaccented "schwer" syllables, I suppose, but my
> > confusion over the matter stems from the word "array", which I
> pronounce
> > like "a ray", with a distinct "roar" consonant after the "ado".
> Thus
> > the letter "array" seems like a non-syllabic letter to me. Maybe
I
> need
> > to revise my usage. But if I do, then I will have to spell the
> word
> > *array* as /arE/, rather than /DE/, since that's the way I
> pronounce it.
> > I have been using "err" for both accented and non-accented
> syllables.
> >
> > Even if we use slightly different spellings, according to the way
> we
> > talk, we can still be understood, just as we can understand the
> speech
> > of someone with a different accent. Maybe even easier.
> >
> > --
> > Ethan
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