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----- Original Message -----
From: "Faraday Fordham" <for03001@...>


> Americans pronounce so many things
> differently.. especially the whole "r" thing.
[snip]
> I've done so much Shavian that my roommates say im stahting to
> sound slahtly british, dahling. also...

If you read the Five Orange Pips you will probably get yourself a British
inflection, admittedly...

It's funny but the 'r' thing is the one 'American' feature of Shavian that I
thought was clearly visible? All 'r's in General American are included in
all Shavian writing using the 'compound' letters (array, err, air, are, or,
ear).

> we also pronounce Ado/up the same.

So do Brits.

It just takes explanation. The difference is not so much 'phonetic' (i.e. a
difference of sound) as it is with the rest of the characters but merely one
of stress. The sounds of ado and up (and array and err) are more or less
indistinguishable, except that 'ado' is unstressed and 'up' is stressed. The
reason for having these two otherwise identical characters is a way of
marking where the stress in a word ISN'T present - so you can work out which
syllables will have the stress and therefore the 'rhythm' of most words
written in Shavian. It works out as a way of avoiding the use of accents for
marking where the stress IS. And it works.

Hugh Birkenhead
Redcoat :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Faraday Fordham" <for03001@...>


> Americans pronounce so many things
> differently.. especially the whole "r" thing.
[snip]
> I've done so much Shavian that my roommates say im stahting to
> sound slahtly british, dahling. also...

If you read the Five Orange Pips you will probably get yourself a British
inflection, admittedly...

It's funny but the 'r' thing is the one 'American' feature of Shavian that I
thought was clearly visible? All 'r's in General American are included in
all Shavian writing using the 'compound' letters (array, err, air, are, or,
ear).

> we also pronounce Ado/up the same.

So do Brits.

It just takes explanation. The difference is not so much 'phonetic' (i.e. a
difference of sound) as it is with the rest of the characters but merely one
of stress. The sounds of ado and up (and array and err) are more or less
indistinguishable, except that 'ado' is unstressed and 'up' is stressed. The
reason for having these two otherwise identical characters is a way of
marking where the stress in a word ISN'T present - so you can work out which
syllables will have the stress and therefore the 'rhythm' of most words
written in Shavian. It works out as a way of avoiding the use of accents for
marking where the stress IS. And it works.

Hugh Birkenhead
Redcoat :)


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Thought I'd add my contacts.

Yahoo! - theomnis
AIM - antidof
ICQ - 75452719


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I am unfamilar about instant messangers.
There seems to be 3 common ones. See below.
What is the simplest one to use? I will look into it.

Regards, Paul V.
______________________________________________________________

--- In shavian@..., "Mike" <theomnis@y...> wrote:
> Thought I'd add my contacts.
>
> Yahoo! - theomnis
> AIM - antidof
> ICQ - 75452719


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I'd suggest Yahoo if you're looking for simplicity, or possibly AOL
Instant Messenger.


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Hi Bryan

I started transilerating Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn in a General
American Accent. Did about 20 pages or so.
It is written in a General Midwest American accent.
You can see it over at Hugh's Ikon board at his Shavian site.
It is in the Shaw section.
Let me know if you need more information on how to find it?
You may have to set the filter for notes more the 90 days old.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. We have had some heated discussions on what subset of the Shaw
Alphabet to use for General American Pronunciation. You might want to
browse through the older messages.
As American's don't make quite as many fine distinctions between some
of the short vowel sounds as the British, it is more practical to use
only a Subset of Shaw Alphabet when writing in an American Accent.

P.P.S. I pronounce "egg" as "eig" as well. And I have a Canadian Mid-
West accent. Seems pretty prevalent up here in Canada.

P.P.P.S. Some of the names of the Shaw Letters don't represent their
sound in American Pronunciation.
I pronounce "Err" like air and "Array" like A-Ray.
"Earl" or "Urge" sounds closer for the first sound.
I only hear the Array sound as a composite sound at the end of words
like Mayor, fire, tire, lawyer or tower.
Likewise, I only hear the short almost insignificant "Ado" sound in
the middle or end of words. Linguists call it the "schwa" if that is
any help.
I hear it in the middle of words like tele-phone, inte-resting and at
the end of words like Drama, tuba, nova.

P.P.P.P.S. It is remarkably internally consistent. Worth pursuing.
Please keep up the good work.
____________________________________attached_______________


--- In shavian@..., "Faraday Fordham" <for03001@b...>
wrote:
> 'K... Im an american. I just joined this group. Real name = Bryan,
> but Faraday is my cat's name. i wanted to see how much Spam i would
> get from my Yahoo account. my cat has been approved for several
> credit cards so far, and has "won" several thousand dollars..
> anyway, on to shavian. Americans pronounce so many things
> differently.. especially the whole "r" thing. i've downloaded and
> deciphered the five orange pips, and several other shavian stories,
> but am having difficulties cuz everything is so... british
sounding.
> are there any booke with american accents that i can download or
> read? I've done so much Shavian that my roommates say im stahting
to
> sound slahtly british, dahling. also... isn't the "egg" sound
> phonetically identical to "age"??? or do the redcoats
> pronounce "egg" to rhyme with "peg" or "beg"??? we also pronounce
> Ado/up the same. comments??? answers??? thanx, friends!!!


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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/2005

I'm an American too. And some of the Shavian letters I do not use as often as the Brittish would. I don't own a computer. But I do go to the library to keep tabs on Shavian. Since I don't have a computer I don't have the fonts. So, I just write in Shavian through handwritting.


Faraday Fordham <for03001@...> wrote:

'K... Im an american. I just joined this group. Real name = Bryan,
but Faraday is my cat's name. i wanted to see how much Spam i would
get from my Yahoo account. my cat has been approved for several
credit cards so far, and has "won" several thousand dollars..
anyway, on to shavian. Americans pronounce so many things
differently.. especially the whole "r" thing. i've downloaded and
deciphered the five orange pips, and several other shavian stories,
but am having difficulties cuz everything is so... british sounding.
are there any booke with american accents that i can download or
read? I've done so much Shavian that my roommates say im stahting to
sound slahtly british, dahling. also... isn't the "egg" sound
phonetically identical to "age"??? or do the redcoats
pronounce "egg" to rhyme with "peg" or "beg"??? we also pronounce
Ado/up the same. comments??? answers??? thanx, friends!!!



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--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/2005

I am currently working on a better keyboard layout, which will be more
logical than the current. Until then I also use shavian in handwriting
form. If anyone has the ability to aid me in this pursuit, I am not
familliar with any alphabet creation programs in which I can do this.

--Star

--- carl easton <shavintel16@...> wrote:
> I'm an American too. And some of the Shavian letters I do not use as
> often as the Brittish would. I don't own a computer. But I do go to
> the library to keep tabs on Shavian. Since I don't have a computer I
> don't have the fonts. So, I just write in Shavian through
> handwritting.


=====
"Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster killing...Hello!"

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com

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--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 18/02/2005

Hi Mike

Thanks for the advice
and hand holding.

Yahoo Instant Messenger now works fine, and I didn't even have to
define a new userid, as my current Yahoo Groups userid and password
work fine. I can even use it on other computers, say at an internet
cafe.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I wouldn't call it simple myself. Seems sophisticated and quite
complex. Good that there wasn't much that was counter-intuitive.
Internally consistency is essential.

P.P.S. Excuse my abrupt disconnection/discorporation from
conversation yesterday.

--- In shavian@..., "Mike" <theomnis@y...> wrote:
> I'd suggest Yahoo if you're looking for simplicity, or possibly AOL
> Instant Messenger.


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Hi Star & Carl

Good Luck on your keyboard. I was just thinking that a few more
buttons/keys would be nice.

And on another topic.
When I said that some of the names of the Shaw Letters don't
represent their sound in American Pronunciation in a previous note,
I forgot to give an exaample of both sounds, especially both sounds
in the same word.

I pronounce "Err" like air and "Array" like A-Ray.
"Earl" or "Urge" sounds closer for the first sound.
I only hear the Array sound as a composite sound at the end of words
like Mayor, fire, tire, lawyer or tower.

You can hear both of the 2 "ur" sounds in the word "emperor" in
normal American pronunciation. The final "ur" sound is a little
longer and more stressed. But there is even less distinction, in the
2 "ur" sounds in the word "murder", so I would just write it mDdD.
Emperor I would write empDx.

Regards, Paul V.

________________attached_________________________________



--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...>
wrote:
> I am currently working on a better keyboard layout, which will be
more
> logical than the current. Until then I also use shavian in
handwriting
> form. If anyone has the ability to aid me in this pursuit, I am not
> familliar with any alphabet creation programs in which I can do
this.
>
> --Star
>
> --- carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> > I'm an American too. And some of the Shavian letters I do not
use as
> > often as the Brittish would. I don't own a computer. But I do
go to
> > the library to keep tabs on Shavian. Since I don't have a
computer I
> > don't have the fonts. So, I just write in Shavian through
> > handwritting.
>
>
> =====
> "Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster
killing...Hello!"
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com


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