Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Just had a thought... how about Shavian hangman?

Really easy to make. Lots of letters to choose from so hopefully more
difficult! It would let people get to grips with spelling phonemically.

Good idea / not?

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Computer Game


> RPG? How silly! What shavian needs is a platform adventure! discover
> the hidden treasure of shavian.... *g*
>
> ;D
>
> Lotsa love from the Mad Gamer
> --Star
>
> --- Mike <theomnis@...> wrote:
> > Hello everyone...it's been a long time since I've posted..I've been
> > lurking. Two of my hobbies include computer game design and Shavian,
> >
> > so I figured that something fun might be produced if i were to
> > combine the two. I have all the skills and technology need to do
> > such a thing, and all I really need are ideas.
> >
> > Right now, I'm thinking about making an RPG(Role-Playing Game) where
> > the player is trapped in the future where everything is written in
> > Shavian, or something of the sort. Please don't hesitate to offer
> > any other game ideas. I can do more than one.
> >
> > I'm really excited about this project, and I've been toying with the
> > idea for quite a while, but never decided to take any action. Let me
> >
> > know what you think.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> "Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster
killing...Hello!"
>
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Just had a thought... how about Shavian hangman?

Really easy to make. Lots of letters to choose from so hopefully more
difficult! It would let people get to grips with spelling phonemically.

Good idea / not?

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Computer Game


> RPG? How silly! What shavian needs is a platform adventure! discover
> the hidden treasure of shavian.... *g*
>
> ;D
>
> Lotsa love from the Mad Gamer
> --Star
>
> --- Mike <theomnis@...> wrote:
> > Hello everyone...it's been a long time since I've posted..I've been
> > lurking. Two of my hobbies include computer game design and Shavian,
> >
> > so I figured that something fun might be produced if i were to
> > combine the two. I have all the skills and technology need to do
> > such a thing, and all I really need are ideas.
> >
> > Right now, I'm thinking about making an RPG(Role-Playing Game) where
> > the player is trapped in the future where everything is written in
> > Shavian, or something of the sort. Please don't hesitate to offer
> > any other game ideas. I can do more than one.
> >
> > I'm really excited about this project, and I've been toying with the
> > idea for quite a while, but never decided to take any action. Let me
> >
> > know what you think.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> "Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster
killing...Hello!"
>
> __________________________________
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> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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>

Hugh's got a GREAT point! Way to go, Hugh...

--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> Just had a thought... how about Shavian hangman?
>
> Really easy to make. Lots of letters to choose from so hopefully more
> difficult! It would let people get to grips with spelling
> phonemically.
>
> Good idea / not?
>
> Hugh B


=====
"Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster killing...Hello!"

__________________________________
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> Hugh's got a GREAT point! Way to go, Hugh...
>
> --Star

Thankyou for your confidence! Unfortunately I'm a crappy coder so there's no
chance of me making anything like this... But I'll certainly 'crack open'
the VB and see if I can remember anything from school...

Anybody want to have a go despite me?

Prizes to be won!!! :-P

Hugh B

> Hugh's got a GREAT point! Way to go, Hugh...
>
> --Star

Thankyou for your confidence! Unfortunately I'm a crappy coder so there's no
chance of me making anything like this... But I'll certainly 'crack open'
the VB and see if I can remember anything from school...

Anybody want to have a go despite me?

Prizes to be won!!! :-P

Hugh B


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You make the fact that the future world using Shavian
is a bad thing. I understand the use of it as a game
element. Perhaps if the inhabitants of the future
looked down upon T.O. as archaic and illogical.

But, for what it's worth, I'm on the decline on
Shavian in my own side-project. I am realizing that
Shavian is co-dependent on accent and pronunciation
reforms and have been looking into "Global English"
and alternative English variants, which is probably
much more likely in the future.

--- Mike <theomnis@...> wrote:
> Hello everyone...it's been a long time since I've
> posted..I've been
> lurking. Two of my hobbies include computer game
> design and Shavian,
> so I figured that something fun might be produced if
> i were to
> combine the two. I have all the skills and
> technology need to do
> such a thing, and all I really need are ideas.
>
> Right now, I'm thinking about making an
> RPG(Role-Playing Game) where
> the player is trapped in the future where everything
> is written in
> Shavian, or something of the sort. Please don't
> hesitate to offer
> any other game ideas. I can do more than one.
>
> I'm really excited about this project, and I've been
> toying with the
> idea for quite a while, but never decided to take
> any action. Let me
> know what you think.
>
>


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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
group.

File : /texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm
Uploaded by : mixsynth <mixsynth@...>
Description : United States Declaration of Independence - in Shavian

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mixsynth <mixsynth@...>






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By the way - along with the declaration of indepence (new document just
completed, tell me what you think) I've uploaded all my transliterations
that were formerly on my website to the "texts" folder in the file vault.

This way everybody can run through them and enjoy them.

Have fun
Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: <shavian@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:28 PM
Subject: [shavian] New file uploaded to shavian


>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
> group.
>
> File : /texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm
> Uploaded by : mixsynth <mixsynth@...>
> Description : United States Declaration of Independence - in Shavian
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> mixsynth <mixsynth@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more.
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/mx3olB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

By the way - along with the declaration of indepence (new document just
completed, tell me what you think) I've uploaded all my transliterations
that were formerly on my website to the "texts" folder in the file vault.

This way everybody can run through them and enjoy them.

Have fun
Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: <shavian@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:28 PM
Subject: [shavian] New file uploaded to shavian


>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
> group.
>
> File : /texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm
> Uploaded by : mixsynth <mixsynth@...>
> Description : United States Declaration of Independence - in Shavian
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/texts/Declaration_Of_Independence.htm
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> mixsynth <mixsynth@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Hugh:

[Hugh Birkenhead wrote:]

Paige

My view is this: In the desire to allow letters to connect more fluidly in
handwriting, Read to a large degree sacrificed the cleanliness and
consistency of the individual letter shapes in Quikscript. The need to
create a clean typeface for print was not on the top of his mind.

I appreciate the point you are making and understand it to some extent. However, I assume the "consistency" you are referring to concerns the reversed letter pairs for voiced and unvoiced consonants. In my opinion, most speakers of English could not care less about this although this symmetry of design apparently appeals to people interested in alphabets. Since non-linguists do not think about whether a letter is voiced or unvoiced as they write, I cannot believe the presence or absence of such pairs affects how quickly a student learns to read. In TO lower case "b" and "d" are mirror images. Would it have been easier for beginning readers to associate the appropriate sound with each symbol if the "b" had represented the "t" phoneme? (so that "d" and "t" were paired) I think not.

By the way, I just noticed that I am using a variable width font in this post. Is there a variable width Shavian font? And if not, would it not make sense to introduce one. I recently noticed that Shavian in a fixed width font looks as clunky as TO does in a fixed width font. I believe even Gutenberg allowed less space for an "i" than he did for an "m."


We must bear in mind that Read was working with "ever-circulars" in the
build-up to the creation of Quikscript. This meant the only feedback on
Shavian he was getting was through handwriting in letters - so obviously it
was easy to worry about how easy the alphabet was to write in cursive
handwriting. There were to be no more typefaces made, as there was no money,
so the emphasis was quite understandably on an alphabet built first and
foremost for cursive handwriters.

While back then, with no computers or typefaces, the priority had to be
making it work with cursive handwriting, today the importance can once again
be put back with making a clear, attractive alphabet for print purposes.
People do not need to write cursively any more - they only need to be able
to type, as typing has the inherent ability of being faster than
conventional handwriting - and indeed, most people I know now prefer to
write, when they do need to write, in a printed fashion as it guarantees
ease of legibility.

I would question the preceding paragraph on several grounds.

A) People do not write cursive anymore: 1) Until a month ago or so (when he managed to get back online), I wrote letters and posted them by snail mail to my brother, who is with the Coalition Forces in Iraq. Some letters I wrote on the computer, but several times I wrote them out in cursive TO using pen and ink because I enjoyed it. Perhaps, I am a fossil. :-) 2) I have clients who bring me information regarding their cases written out in cursive. Yes, I also have clients who print, but at least as many use cursive as use print. 3) when I make notes in a file, I use cursive TO or Quikscript. I virtually never print, and my secretary seldom asks me to decipher what I have written.

B) [People] only need to be able to type. I agree that typing has the "inherent ability of being faster than conventional handwriting." However, my impression, partially derived from a few experiences in chat rooms, is that many, if not the majority, of people using computers are not touch typists. They cannot type faster than about 20 words per minute and that is with all kinds of errors. It seems likely to me that most people could still write faster than they can type. The big breakthrough they are waiting for is dictating to their computers. No doubt that is just a matter of time.

C) Most people prefer to write in a printed fashion. 1) This does not seem to be true where I live. A study on this would be interesting to see how accurate your impression is. Regarding increased legibility: this is only anecdotal, but my step-son prints, and his printing is virtually illegible. I would agree that printing is generally more legible than most people's cursive, but that is generally due to haste, and poorly formed characters or personal habits that alter the shapes of letters. Increased legibility is certainly not "guaranteed."

So in my opinion, the old requirement that letters join together perfectly
for cursive script is no longer urgent, because cursive script is no longer
an urgent priority. In looking for a replacement alphabet for English,
thanks to computers we can concentrate on making the print form legible and
ultimately pleasant to the eye. I believe Shavian is perfect for the job.

I agree the foregoing has some validity, but I believe people will continue to make notes and write with pens and pencils for some time to come. Despite the advantages of PDAs, in my opinion, there still is no substitute for jotting down a quick note with a pen for ease and convenience. (I do use a PDA, by the way, but for the search capabilities and ability to synchronize it with my computer). I certainly do not use it for "fun" of having to write with "graffiti" which is slower than writing by hand.

Paige Gabhart



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