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From: Star Raven
Date: 2003-07-15 17:18:33 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] aesthetics

Toggle Shavian
It's so nice to have solved this problem like adults. Yaya for us...
now on to the important things: transliterating....

--Star

--- "C. Paige Gabhart" <pgabhart@...> wrote:
> Star:
>
> Thank you for your considered reply.


=====
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From: carl easton
Date: 2003-07-16 20:51:39 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: The Aesthetic value of the original Shavian Alphabet

Toggle Shavian
Hi folks,

This is yet another apologetic response. Since I'm new to Shavian Discussion I didn't realize that there were people here that had websites on Shavian, of their own. And I think I stepped on some you folks feet. In particular I would like to apologize to Paul. I didn't realize it was your new alphabet I thought looked difficult to understand. And for you Rubik it was Paul's alphabet I had in mind. (www.shawalphabet.com <http://www.shawalphabet.com> ). Now that I'm in the open I think I must restate my position on Shavian.
I have always been interested in phonetics and I have been on a quest to find a writing system for English which is phonetic. First, I found I.T.A.. Second, Deseret. And Finally, Shavian. It seems to me that Shavian was the best one for the English Language. I found Shavian on www.omniglot.com <http://www.omniglot.com> it appealed to me because it resembles ancient writing systems. And the best part it is phonetic and comprehensive. Then I found out about Unifon and Quickscript. (Which I like but they don't suit my purposes for the ideal writing system.). Unifon is easy to understand. And Quickscript I like because it is the cursive of Shavian (When I think of Shavian I think of the Original). Though Quickscript is difficult for me because I am a printer mostly. So I like to print my letters. Which I think has aesthetic value.

Best regards to everyone in this fine group,

Carl

rubik67 <rubik67@...> wrote:

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:

> And another thing when I originally said the Original Shavian
is better looking than the later onesl; I had in mind the Shaw
Alphabet made after QS. Which seems to be the sloppiest one ever.

Oh? Do tell! I wasn't aware there was another one. Where could I find
some information about this "Third Shavian" script? L8r.




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From: Paige Gabhart
Date: 2003-07-17 05:07:15 #
Subject: [shavian] aesthetics

Toggle Shavian
Carl:

You should keep in mind that the design of Quikscript makes it easy to
for letters to connect, but it certainly is no requirement that they do
so. It is perfectly acceptable for them to be written separately. In
fact, junior QS, which Read intended for the beginner, is written with
each letter separate.
Paige Gabhart

carl easton wrote:

[snip]

> And Quickscript I like because it is the cursive of Shavian (When I
> think of Shavian I think of the Original). Though Quickscript is
> difficult for me because I am a printer mostly. So I like to print my
> letters. Which I think has aesthetic value.
>
>
>
> */r/*
>
> click here
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30504&media=atkins>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.





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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2003-07-17 10:11:07 #
Subject: [shavian] My website = gone (but not for good)

Toggle Shavian
Dear Shavia

Unfortunately, due to BT Internet having closed my old account, my website is now off the air. All the shavian fonts and transliterations on it are therefore inaccessible...

...for the time being.

I might end up using the webspace on our new NTL account, but I have a suspicion that it's not big enough. I will let you know when it comes back, whatever.

rigRdz
Hugh B

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From: Craig Butz
Date: 2003-07-17 13:09:44 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: My website = gone (but not for good)

Toggle Shavian
In a previous episode, Hugh B. said:

> Unfortunately, due to BT Internet having closed my old account, my website is
> now off the air. All the shavian fonts and transliterations on it are
> therefore inaccessible...

You could upload stuff to the yahoogroups space.


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From: carl easton
Date: 2003-07-17 21:20:38 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] aesthetics

Toggle Shavian
Paige:

You are right after I wrote that article I read an article probably by you that all Shaw's alphabets should be treated with respect. Which I try to do. I am a big fan of writing systems, and this includes Quickscript. I like QS don't get me wrong but I have always had trouble with both traditional cursive and shavian cursive (QS) nothing against its user value.

Carl

Paige Gabhart <pgabhart@...> wrote:

Carl:

You should keep in mind that the design of Quikscript makes it easy to
for letters to connect, but it certainly is no requirement that they do
so. It is perfectly acceptable for them to be written separately. In
fact, junior QS, which Read intended for the beginner, is written with
each letter separate.
Paige Gabhart

carl easton wrote:

[snip]

> And Quickscript I like because it is the cursive of Shavian (When I
> think of Shavian I think of the Original). Though Quickscript is
> difficult for me because I am a printer mostly. So I like to print my
> letters. Which I think has aesthetic value.
>
>
>
> */r/*
>
> click here
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705213030:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30504&media=atkins>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.






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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2003-07-17 23:55:37 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] aesthetics

Toggle Shavian
Paige

My view is this: In the desire to allow letters to connect more fluidly in
handwriting, Read to a large degree sacrificed the cleanliness and
consistency of the individual letter shapes in Quikscript. The need to
create a clean typeface for print was not on the top of his mind.

We must bear in mind that Read was working with "ever-circulars" in the
build-up to the creation of Quikscript. This meant the only feedback on
Shavian he was getting was through handwriting in letters - so obviously it
was easy to worry about how easy the alphabet was to write in cursive
handwriting. There were to be no more typefaces made, as there was no money,
so the emphasis was quite understandably on an alphabet built first and
foremost for cursive handwriters.

While back then, with no computers or typefaces, the priority had to be
making it work with cursive handwriting, today the importance can once again
be put back with making a clear, attractive alphabet for print purposes.
People do not need to write cursively any more - they only need to be able
to type, as typing has the inherent ability of being faster than
conventional handwriting - and indeed, most people I know now prefer to
write, when they do need to write, in a printed fashion as it guarantees
ease of legibility.

So in my opinion, the old requirement that letters join together perfectly
for cursive script is no longer urgent, because cursive script is no longer
an urgent priority. In looking for a replacement alphabet for English,
thanks to computers we can concentrate on making the print form legible and
ultimately pleasant to the eye. I believe Shavian is perfect for the job.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paige Gabhart" <pgabhart@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: [shavian] aesthetics


> Carl:
>
> You should keep in mind that the design of Quikscript makes it easy to
> for letters to connect, but it certainly is no requirement that they do
> so. It is perfectly acceptable for them to be written separately. In
> fact, junior QS, which Read intended for the beginner, is written with
> each letter separate.
> Paige Gabhart
>
> carl easton wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > And Quickscript I like because it is the cursive of Shavian (When I
> > think of Shavian I think of the Original). Though Quickscript is
> > difficult for me because I am a printer mostly. So I like to print my
> > letters. Which I think has aesthetic value.
> >
> >
> >
> > */r/*
> >
> > click here
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17052130
30:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
4&media=atkins>
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2003-07-17 23:58:00 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] aesthetics

Toggle Shavian
Paige

My view is this: In the desire to allow letters to connect more fluidly in
handwriting, Read to a large degree sacrificed the cleanliness and
consistency of the individual letter shapes in Quikscript. The need to
create a clean typeface for print was not on the top of his mind.

We must bear in mind that Read was working with "ever-circulars" in the
build-up to the creation of Quikscript. This meant the only feedback on
Shavian he was getting was through handwriting in letters - so obviously it
was easy to worry about how easy the alphabet was to write in cursive
handwriting. There were to be no more typefaces made, as there was no money,
so the emphasis was quite understandably on an alphabet built first and
foremost for cursive handwriters.

While back then, with no computers or typefaces, the priority had to be
making it work with cursive handwriting, today the importance can once again
be put back with making a clear, attractive alphabet for print purposes.
People do not need to write cursively any more - they only need to be able
to type, as typing has the inherent ability of being faster than
conventional handwriting - and indeed, most people I know now prefer to
write, when they do need to write, in a printed fashion as it guarantees
ease of legibility.

So in my opinion, the old requirement that letters join together perfectly
for cursive script is no longer urgent, because cursive script is no longer
an urgent priority. In looking for a replacement alphabet for English,
thanks to computers we can concentrate on making the print form legible and
ultimately pleasant to the eye. I believe Shavian is perfect for the job.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paige Gabhart" <pgabhart@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: [shavian] aesthetics


> Carl:
>
> You should keep in mind that the design of Quikscript makes it easy to
> for letters to connect, but it certainly is no requirement that they do
> so. It is perfectly acceptable for them to be written separately. In
> fact, junior QS, which Read intended for the beginner, is written with
> each letter separate.
> Paige Gabhart
>
> carl easton wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > And Quickscript I like because it is the cursive of Shavian (When I
> > think of Shavian I think of the Original). Though Quickscript is
> > difficult for me because I am a printer mostly. So I like to print my
> > letters. Which I think has aesthetic value.
> >
> >
> >
> > */r/*
> >
> > click here
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17052130
30:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3050
4&media=atkins>
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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From: Mike
Date: 2003-07-18 11:28:18 #
Subject: [shavian] Shavian Computer Game

Toggle Shavian
Hello everyone...it's been a long time since I've posted..I've been
lurking. Two of my hobbies include computer game design and Shavian,
so I figured that something fun might be produced if i were to
combine the two. I have all the skills and technology need to do
such a thing, and all I really need are ideas.

Right now, I'm thinking about making an RPG(Role-Playing Game) where
the player is trapped in the future where everything is written in
Shavian, or something of the sort. Please don't hesitate to offer
any other game ideas. I can do more than one.

I'm really excited about this project, and I've been toying with the
idea for quite a while, but never decided to take any action. Let me
know what you think.


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From: Star Raven
Date: 2003-07-18 13:04:46 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Computer Game

Toggle Shavian
RPG? How silly! What shavian needs is a platform adventure! discover
the hidden treasure of shavian.... *g*

;D

Lotsa love from the Mad Gamer
--Star

--- Mike <theomnis@...> wrote:
> Hello everyone...it's been a long time since I've posted..I've been
> lurking. Two of my hobbies include computer game design and Shavian,
>
> so I figured that something fun might be produced if i were to
> combine the two. I have all the skills and technology need to do
> such a thing, and all I really need are ideas.
>
> Right now, I'm thinking about making an RPG(Role-Playing Game) where
> the player is trapped in the future where everything is written in
> Shavian, or something of the sort. Please don't hesitate to offer
> any other game ideas. I can do more than one.
>
> I'm really excited about this project, and I've been toying with the
> idea for quite a while, but never decided to take any action. Let me
>
> know what you think.
>
>


=====
"Alright, enough with the storyline, let's get back to the monster killing...Hello!"

__________________________________
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