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Hal recently wrote:

At least two of you now think that I pronounce "err" as "air" -- but
actually I don't. "Err" and "air" are as distinct for me as "ferry"
and "fairy" (or "berry" and "Barry").

I'm curious: all of the contrasting pairs given by Hal here are NOT
contrasting pairs at all in my own Southern (USA) dialect; err and air, and
ferry and fairy sound the same to me. Is the the case elsewhere in America?

Thanks.

Bill

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Is anyone on this list by any chance on the ICQ network? (www.icq.com)

Hugh Birkenhead
www.funkymusic.co.uk


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Dear friends,
In Chicago and Seattle the words mentioned are sounded the same as well.
I have heard dialects where the "e" in "berry" is the same as the "e" in
bed", while the "a" in "Barry" is the more open vowel, close to but not
quite the "a" in "cat." That may be true for some speakers. It does not
interfere with understanding these speakers which is at the heart of the
issue. Which sounds appear to change meaning?
The person who notices this has good linguistic ears, if not trained
as a linguist! Dan


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Dear friends,
In Chicago and Seattle the words mentioned are sounded the same as well.
I have heard dialects where the "e" in "berry" is the same as the "e" in
bed", while the "a" in "Barry" is the more open vowel, close to but not
quite the "a" in "cat." That may be true for some speakers. It does not
interfere with understanding these speakers which is at the heart of the
issue. Which sounds appear to change meaning?
The person who notices this has good linguistic ears, if not trained
as a linguist! Dan


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At 07:13 PM 10/8/99 -0400, RSRICHMOND@aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 10/8/99 11:50:24 AM, Andy Callaway wrote:
>
><<I've been reading some of the other stuff about variations in
>pronunciation. I, too have struck this problem. In Australia, the words
[snip]

I've had several responses generally informing me that these sounds are
distinct. I suppose the CMU dictionary must have them listed as the same
for simplicity.

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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Evenin' All
Following a conversation about different accents, inluding north v. south,
I thought you might appreciate this little snippet that someone just sent me.
WARNING! A bit off-topic, and may offend some people.





>From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahyaa@FrontierSoftware.com.au>
>To: Alan Knipe <AlanK@starnetsystems.com.au>,
> Andrew Callaway
> <acal@...>,
> Eric Best <ebest@...>,
> Rasheed Abdal-Aziz <rasheed@...>,
> Vince Thornton
> <vuncet@...>
>Subject: Sayin's from the US Souf
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:34:50 +1000
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
>
>
>Sayin's from the US Souf
>
>"Well knock me down and steal muh teeth!"
>"Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit."
>"I'll slap you so hard, your clothes will be outta style."
>"This'll jar your preserves."
>"Cute as a sack full of puppies."
>"If things get any better, I may have to hire someone to help me enjoy it."
>"Gooder than grits."
>"It's so dry, the trees are bribing the dogs."
>"It's been hotter'n a goat's butt in a pepper patch."
>
>Wintry roads are said to be 'slicker than otter snot'.
>A bothersome person is 'like a booger that you can't thump off'.
>When something is bad then you say 'that ain't no count'.
>If something is hard to do, it's 'like trying to herd cats'.
>A hectic schedule keeps you 'busier than a cat covering doo-doo on a marble
>floor'.
>
>"She's uglier than homemade soap."
>"Your momma's so fat, when she got on the scales to be weighed, it said 'to
>be continued'."
>"He fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down."
>"Uglier than a lard bucket full of armpits."
>"The wheel's still turning, but the hamster's dead."
>
- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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[snip]
>When I thought it was possible to rename the Shavian letters, I suggested
>renaming the letter "earn" which is unambiguous.
My Uncle Ern's got an urn...

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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Hi!
As a Saint Louisian I agree with Mr. Driscoll but I pronounce Barry and
berry the way it is recorded in the dictionary. The other word combinations
were not clear to me until they were pointed out and I decided it would be
better to change as I wanted to speak English not as it is understood
dialectically but rather internationally. I have been called on saying
hawrse for horse and pronouncing hoarse and horse. If we want to understand
each other clearly, we do need to pontificate a bit and select an English
dictionary, an internationally known one, and then use that as a guide to
govern our own way of speaking. Generally we are not taught in school to
consider this critical point of communication but when we travel it becomes
noticeable if we speak dialectically instead of internationally. Is there
any problem in accepting an international English dictionary as a guide to
avoid detailed discussion about how to write a phonetic script? Otherwise,
we are doomed to discuss this issue ad infinitum.
sidban2@...




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Hi!
As a midwestern I have benn called on using hawrse for horse and horse for
horse. But, I always distinguished berry from Barry. Choosing an
international English dictionary would prevent the problem of not being able
to understand the pronunciation of others. I tend to abide by what serves
the international community since I travel a great deal. It is a personal
choice but I do not see anything wrong with using your dialect when you are
in your dialect in your hometown environment and using an international
pronunciation when you are away from it. For those who would like to
standard pronunciation, what dictionary do you think would serve that
purpose? Those who live in England may have a better choice of dictionaries
than we do in the U.S. I have been very interested in Collins Dictionaries
as a possibility
sidban2@...




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I have become the proud owner of the bound presentation edition of this
work, after a London library decided my need was far greater than theirs.

Greetings from Palembang, Indonesia, where I am now living, to all fellow
cranks.


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