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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2003-09-14 17:34:12 #
Subject: [shavian] Assumptions?

Toggle Shavian
Hi Hugh
What ever happened to a plain old phone call?
It would be interesting to exchange words. Our accent groups are
quite dissimilar. I have a cheezy Canadian monotone Accent, (less
stress on some syllables) that you might find difficult to
understand, especially if you make use of an extreme RP university
accent, as I suspect.
Regards, Paul V.
____________________attached_______________________________

--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Gershon Vandenbrink" <pvandenbrink@s...>
>
>
> > And while I stress "potion" on the second syllable.
>
> I would be interested to hear a sound clip of you saying it with
stress on
> the 'tion'. I would never have imagined it being said that way...
>
> > I would say the stress
> > difference between my first and second syllable of o-cean is
negligable.
> > But if I am speaking quickly, I say oash-un (Shaw OS-an). Either
is quite
> > acceptable in my accent group.
>
> So you could just as easily say 'o-SHAN'? Again, a recording would
make
> interesting listening...
>
> Hugh B


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From: Ethan
Date: 2003-09-14 19:24:25 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Ghoubteiptough

Toggle Shavian
Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
>
> I still can't believe how only in the Shavian group molehills can turn into
> mountains...
>
> Hugh B

Oh, I wish! But it's not just in the Shavian group. I see it in so
many other places... I guess a lot of people are looking for a fight
these days!

Everybody has strange ways of saying things.

In my accent group, Creek = crick.

Tune is pronounced "toon", never "tyoon"; Newfoundland is "Noofunlan"
and the people who live there, "Noofies"; News = "nooze"; Some of this
change is still in progress, as evidenced by the fact that most people
say "Exkyooz mee", but sometimes it's said "Exkooz me" (and at times,
"exkyoozay mwah"...)

I grew up in the same house with my parents and grandparents. My
father, grandfather, and grandmother all pronounce the "h" sound in
which, where, what, whale, etc. but my mother does not, and neither do
I. So for me, whales and Wales both sound the same.

Also, "there", "their", "they're", all sound the same when I say them.
In Shavian, /HD/. But a friend of mine pronounces all three words
differently. (Something like /HX/, /HED/, and /HED/ with a lengthened /E/.)

"Two" and "too" are identical, but "to" is short and unaccented, and
sounds much different.

Sometimes I have learned that I was saying a word wrong for years,
because I had never heard it said and read at the same time. How
embarrassing!

But if you ever learn a foreign language (and we Americans are the worst
for not doing this) you will quickly learn that you are like a baby,
especially when you learn through immersion, as I learned French. You
feel like even the native toddlers have a great deal more knowlege of
how to talk than you do! It puts you in your place really quick.

Okay, enough of my babbling, back into lurk mode...

--
Ethan


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From: Steve Bett
Date: 2003-09-15 07:10:51 #
Subject: [shavian] ocean motion

Toggle Shavian
Ocean motion [tradspel]
OSan mOSan [Shavian ASCII and ENgliS]
'O-sh&n 'mO-sh&n [Merriam Webster]
'oUS@n 'moUS@n [SAMPA]

How else would it be pronounced in modern English?
It may have been pronounced as spelled in Middle English.

Pronunciation: 'O-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English occean, from Latin oceanus, from Greek
Õkeanos, a river thought of as encircling the earth.
Date: 14th century

Steve

--- In shavian@..., Paul Gershon Vandenbrink
<pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:

> I usually pronounce ocean, to rhyme with lotion, potion and motion.
> And while I stress "potion" on the second syllable. I would say
the stress difference between my first and second syllable of o-cean
is negligable. But if I am speaking quickly, I say oash-un (Shaw OS-
an). Either is quite acceptable in my accent group.



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From: carl easton
Date: 2003-09-15 20:52:39 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: About the "on" shavian letter

Toggle Shavian
Hi Folks,

I apologize for making it seem like I was rejecting the 'on' letter. In truth I do not. I'm now using it again for words whose 'ah' sound is represented by (in traditional orthography) an 'o'.

best regards,

Carl

dshepx <dshep@...> wrote:

--- In shavian@..., carl easton
<shavintel16@y...> wrote:

> Based on my research done off of www.omniglot.com I
discover that the sound for "on" is simply a rounded "ah".

… … …

The Americans amongst us have in all likelihood heard the
low-back-rounded vowel, but perhaps did not notice it or thought
it was a peculiarity of the speaker. It is the vowel of "Bond,
James Bond", and is used in all the "short-o" situations, even in
parts of America. Listen carefully next time to 007.

regards,
dshep




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From: carl easton
Date: 2003-09-15 20:52:39 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: About the "on" shavian letter

Toggle Shavian
Hi Folks,

I apologize for making it seem like I was rejecting the 'on' letter. In truth I do not. I'm now using it again for words whose 'ah' sound is represented by (in traditional orthography) an 'o'.

best regards,

Carl

dshepx <dshep@...> wrote:

--- In shavian@..., carl easton
<shavintel16@y...> wrote:

> Based on my research done off of www.omniglot.com I
discover that the sound for "on" is simply a rounded "ah".

… … …

The Americans amongst us have in all likelihood heard the
low-back-rounded vowel, but perhaps did not notice it or thought
it was a peculiarity of the speaker. It is the vowel of "Bond,
James Bond", and is used in all the "short-o" situations, even in
parts of America. Listen carefully next time to 007.

regards,
dshep




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From: carl easton
Date: 2003-09-15 21:06:34 #
Subject: [shavian] My theory why 'ha-ha' and 'hung' look similiar

Toggle Shavian
Hey Folks,

Have you ever wondered why 'ha-ha' and 'hung' look similiar, even though they are unrelated sounds I theorize that maybe these letters can only be used at the extremities of each syllable. For instance, "ha-ha" can only be used at the beginning of a syllable, while, "hung" can only be used at the end of the syllable.

I would like to know what you folks think, about this theory.

Best Regards,

Carl

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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2003-09-16 00:09:24 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: My theory why 'ha-ha' and 'hung' look similiar

Toggle Shavian
Hi Carl
That's a useful way of thinking of it. I never made the connection
before, although it is quite true that these sounds can only
pronouced in certain places in an English syllable. In fact
the "hung" always follows a vowel, and not just every vowel either.
I had always thought of these sounds as just leftovers, that were
matched together haphazardly.
If you are looking for a sound that only can be pronounced in the
middle of a syllable. Check out "wool".
"yea" and "woe" only can be pronounced before a vowel.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. The rule is pretty good, but there are few exceptions for "hung".
For example length and bank

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hey Folks,
>
> Have you ever wondered why 'ha-ha' and 'hung' look similiar, even
though they are unrelated sounds I theorize that maybe these
letters can only be used at the extremities of each syllable. For
instance, "ha-ha" can only be used at the beginning of a syllable,
while, "hung" can only be used at the end of the syllable.
>
> I would like to know what you folks think, about this theory.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Carl
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software


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From: Bob Schmertz
Date: 2003-09-16 02:17:38 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Where phonemes can occur (was hung/ha-ha theory)

Toggle Shavian
paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Sep 15, by saying

>If you are looking for a sound that only can be pronounced in the
>middle of a syllable. Check out "wool".

Oops, I think you made a mistake ;-)

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz


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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2003-09-16 12:20:55 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Where phonemes can occur (was hung/ha-ha theory)

Toggle Shavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Schmertz" <rschmertz@...>


> paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Sep 15, by saying
>
> >If you are looking for a sound that only can be pronounced in the
> >middle of a syllable. Check out "wool".
>
> Oops, I think you made a mistake ;-)

Aha, I say [Mps], to rhyme with "hoops".

But in the north of England all instances of the 'up' vowel are pronounced
as 'wool'. I don't think Shavian allows for this though and they still have
to use 'up'.


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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2003-09-16 12:22:58 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Where phonemes can occur (was hung/ha-ha theory)

Toggle Shavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Schmertz" <rschmertz@...>


> paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Sep 15, by saying
>
> >If you are looking for a sound that only can be pronounced in the
> >middle of a syllable. Check out "wool".
>
> Oops, I think you made a mistake ;-)

Aha, I say [Mps], to rhyme with "hoops".

But in the north of England all instances of the 'up' vowel are pronounced
as 'wool'. I don't think Shavian allows for this though and they still have
to use 'up'.