Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Hi Phil

Quickskript puts a little tic at the end of the "woe" and "yea"
letters. It is easy to add. It is just like making a check mark.
One of Kingsley's mor understandable improvements.

Regards, Paul V.

_______________________attached________________________
In shavian@..., "Ph. D." <phild@a...> wrote:
> Ethan skribis:
> >
> > There is no Shaw function for the asterisk, that I'm
> > aware of, yet there are other uses for the asterisk,
> > including the marking of footnotes*, text *emphasis*
> > in email messages, and in computer command lines
> > ($ ls shavian/*.txt). If we put the namer dot on the
> > asterisk (shift 8) key, then that key would become
> > unavailable for these other purposes, or would be
> > more difficult to use. Try differentiating the command
> > line *.*, if it looks like ·.·! Or what about our ·emphasis·,
> > or ·.txt? How about the footnote·?
>
>
> In the same way, I've always thought that the Shaw
> character for Woe was unfortunate since it looks so
> much like a slash. Consider a path name in Shavian
> with slashes and Woe characters. The Woe is lower,
> but still it makes it difficult to distinguish.
>
> Capital G seems the way to go for the namer dot.
>
> --Ph. D.




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Hello,

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Jack and Stephen,

According to Tauber, On Language, Shaw mentions GHOTI as a defect in the traditional orthography in a London Times article. Probably a letter to the editor.

Carney and others have pointed out that such a spelling for FISH violates some of the positional rules of English spelling. GH can be /f/ in a terminal position but never in an initial position. I believe that O = /I/ in only one word <women> so it is hardly a normal pattern. <ti> in a terminal position is never pronounced /S/ <sh>.

I do not know who was the first person to suggest this creative spelling of FISH.
You might check Alexander Ellis, a cohort of Isaac Pitman, who wrote several essays which illustrated the full extent of the orthographic options in traditonal English spelling starting around 1870. One of Ellis' examples was the word scissors whcih could be spelled several hundred different ways. Unifon: sizcrz Jolly: siz&rz. Spanglish: sizzerz. There is no second guessing when it comes to the fonetik spelling beyond having to know the convention for representing schwa and relative stress. By contrast, it is almost impossible to guess the English spelling from the pronunciation alone.

A 5 phonogram sound-spelling would on the average have 14 spellings per phonogram or over 500,000 optional traditional spellings in a 5 phonogram word. I don't recall if Ellis played around with creative spellings beyond listing them as possible alternative spellings.

The number of combinations cited by Ellis is inflated because he ignores the positional restraints in English spelling. Counting these, the number of possibilities can be reduced to around 15,000. This is still slightly inflated because some spellings will have a higher frequency than others and these would be tried first. sizzers would probably be the first guess for an adult. A 2nd grader would probably guess sizrs.

<GHOTI> is not a simplified spelling so Shaw would not be concerned that this would be a source of ridicule for phonemic spelling. In an earlier period, much of the ridicule of phonemic spelling, then called fonetik, was directed toward Isaac Pitman's spellings.
Most of them appeared in Punch.

Some spellings do look odd and uneducated but this is just because they are unfamiliar or collide with a conventional spelling. Children will write "I luv u mome" which is close to Unifon, a phonemic spelling system: "I luv U momE" The caps incidate long vowels. Thus, Unifon could be ridiculed as a childish spelling or an unlearned spelling.

Unifon is a variant of comic book spelling since it is printed: I LUV U MOME
It doesn't take too much imagination to find funny sound spellings in Unifon [www.unifon.org]
chauffeur = SOF3R wrestle = RES3L or with a syllabic L: RESL
diarrhea /"dI-&-'rE-&/ diarrhoea typed as dicrEc printed as DI3RE3
boutique /b?-'tEk / <boo-teek> typed as bUtEk printed as BUTEK

I hope this helps.

Steve
Steve Bett, Ph.D., editor, Journal of the Simplified Spelling Society

Jack wrote:

I will throw this question open to other members of
the Simplified Spelling Society and our associate,
Spell4Literacy and hope you will get further insight
into the origin of 'ghoti'.

I looked, as you must have done, at google.com and
found references you refer to below.

Yours sincerely

Jack Bovill
Chair, SSS

--- Stephen Goranson <goranson@...> wrote: >
> Dear Jack Bovill,
>
> If I may, I'd like to ask about the author of
> "ghoti." The four sources below
> raise questions. Was it not Shaw? Why would Shaw worry?

Since this [ghoti] is not a phonemic or simplified spelling, Shaw would not worry.
Shaw was so concerned about sound-spellings being mistaken for uneducated spellings, however, that he called for a completely new alphabet unrelated to the contaminated and compromised Roman alphabet. [see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian]

> Was Jones quoting an
> earlier publication by himself?

You can check the date on the Shaw article in the London Times.
If it comes before Nov. 1943, then he is probably quoting Shaw.

If not, then he may have been referencing something that may have been
brought up in one of the meetings of the spelling society. Reducing the number
of possible creative or orthogrically legitimate spellings was a concern of the society.

Joyce would not read
> Christian Science
> Monitor, presumably not the first publication? In
> short, who wrote it [GHOTI] --whether
> properly called enthusiast or not?
>
> Thee Times [London] 2 Nov 1943 p.2:
>
> A Hard Spell for Fish
> Professor Jones on Sounds and Letters
> Dr. Daniel Jones...speaking on "Reform in English
> Spelling" astonished his
> audience at the college last night by suggesting the
> word 'fish' could be
> spelled 'ghoti
>
> Michael Holroyd, Bernard Shaw, vol. III p. 501,
> writes a bit unclearly that
> GBS was concerned about ridicule of spelling reform
> as a crank subject, which
> he tried to prevent. "But when an enthusiastic
> convert suggested that 'ghoti'
> would be a reasonable way to spell 'fish' under the
> old system (...),

That was the critique of traditional spelling. There were too many orthographic options.
/F/ can be spelled several different ways. [See Dewey, G. 1971 for the exact number]
/I/ can be spelled over 14 ways
/S/ can be spelled several ways and some overlap with other sounds

> the subject seemed about to be engulfed in the ridicule
> from which Shaw was determined to save it.

Ridicule is better than being ignored.
Shaw and Twain probably did more the ridicule simplified spelling than those who were opposed to it. They became converts to fonetik spelling and preferred sound-signs that would not be confused with traditional spelling. Both liked Pitman shorthand but wanted a linear version of it -- something that could be typeset. See JSSS-31 for a discussion.

" I don't get why M.H. thought this example was a worry
> to GBS; but he presents it as not offered by Shaw.
> The very next sentence (on
> p. 501) mentions "the phonetic enthusiast James
> Lecky...." That's why I though[t]
> the two so-called "enthusiasts" might be identical;
> but evidently they are not.

Shaw was a fonetik enthusiast. I think the problem is with the two concepts of
fonetik. One notion is that any spelling that is orthographically possible is fonetik with respect to traditional English spelling. The orthographic options are often used to distinguish homophones: scent/sent/cent.

The other idea of fonetik refers to a single system of sound signs where there is one and only one symbol for each speech sound.

> Finnegans Wake (1939) has "gee each owe tea eye smells fish."

> Christian Science Monitor 27 Aug 1938 p. 17 in an
> unsigned column, "In a
> lighter vein": "A foreigner insisted that 'fish'
> should be spelled 'ghoti'...."'...
>
> best wishes,
>
> Stephen Goranson
> Perkins Library
> Duke University
> Durham NC
> goranson@...


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I noticed in your discussion of the Nonsense word Ghoti
that you said that:
"Counting these, the number of
> possibilities can be reduced to around 15,000. This is still
slightly inflated
> because some spellings will have a higher frequency than others and
these would
> be tried first. sizzers would probably be the first guess for an
adult. A
> 2nd grader would probably guess sizrz."

I don't know of any English spelling rule that would
allow the reader to think the "SC" diagraph signifies the plain
"S" sound.
Perhaps it might be useful from a simplified spelling point
of view, it would be nice to have a list of words, such as "scissors"
where the spelling has diverged so far from any notion of rational
English spelling that we should shun them and only use synonyms.
For example, I would like to use the word, "shears" from this point
point on.

Paul V.

P.S. Just a personal preference, but I would like to hear more about
Practical matters, rather than discuss a hypothetical test case,
over and over.

_______________attached________________________-




--- In shavian@..., stbett@y... wrote:
> Jack and Stephen,
>
> According to Tauber, On Language, Shaw mentions GHOTI as a defect
in the
> traditional orthography in a London Times article. Probably a
letter to the
> editor.
>
> Carney and others have pointed out that such a spelling for FISH
violates
> some of the positional rules of English spelling. GH can be /f/ in
a terminal
> position but never in an initial position. I believe that O = /I/
in only one
> word <women> so it is hardly a normal pattern. <ti> in a terminal
position is
> never pronounced /S/ <sh>.
>
> I do not know who was the first person to suggest this creative
spelling of
> FISH.
> You might check Alexander Ellis, a cohort of Isaac Pitman, who
wrote several
> essays which illustrated the full extent of the orthographic
options in
> traditonal English spelling starting around 1870. One of Ellis'
examples was the
> word scissors whcih could be spelled several hundred different
ways. Unifon:
> sizcrz Jolly: siz&rz. Spanglish: sizzerz. There is no second
guessing when it
> comes to the fonetik spelling beyond having to know the convention
for
> representing schwa and relative stress. By contrast, it is almost
impossible to
> guess the English spelling from the pronunciation alone.
>
> A 5 phonogram sound-spelling would on the average have 14 spellings
per
> phonogram or over 500,000 optional traditional spellings in a 5
phonogram word. I
> don't recall if Ellis played around with creative spellings beyond
listing
> them as possible alternative spellings.
>
> The number of combinations cited by Ellis is inflated because he
ignores the
> positional restraints in English spelling. Counting these, the
number of
> possibilities can be reduced to around 15,000. This is still
slightly inflated
> because some spellings will have a higher frequency than others and
these would
> be tried first. sizzers would probably be the first guess for an
adult. A
> 2nd grader would probably guess sizrs.
>
> <GHOTI> is not a simplified spelling so Shaw would not be concerned
that this
> would be a source of ridicule for phonemic spelling. In an earlier
period,
> much of the ridicule of phonemic spelling, then called fonetik, was
directed
> toward Isaac Pitman's spellings.
> Most of them appeared in Punch.
>
> Some spellings do look odd and uneducated but this is just because
they are
> unfamiliar or collide with a conventional spelling. Children will
write "I luv
> u mome" which is close to Unifon, a phonemic spelling system: "I
luv U
> momE" The caps incidate long vowels. Thus, Unifon could be
ridiculed as a
> childish spelling or an unlearned spelling.
>
> Unifon is a variant of comic book spelling since it is printed: I
LUV U MOME
> It doesn't take too much imagination to find funny sound spellings
in Unifon
> [www.unifon.org]
> chauffeur = SOF3R wrestle = RES3L or with a syllabic L: RESL
> diarrhea /"dI-&-'rE-&/ diarrhoea typed as dicrEc printed as
DI3RE3
> boutique /bü-'tEk / <boo-teek> typed as bUtEk printed as
BUTEK
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Steve
> Steve Bett, Ph.D., editor, Journal of the Simplified Spelling
Society
> Jack wrote:
>
> I will throw this question open to other members of
> the Simplified Spelling Society and our associate,
> Spell4Literacy and hope you will get further insight
> into the origin of 'ghoti'.
>
> I looked, as you must have done, at google.com and
> found references you refer to below.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Jack Bovill
> Chair, SSS
>
> --- Stephen Goranson <goranson@d...> wrote: >
> > Dear Jack Bovill,
> >
> > If I may, I'd like to ask about the author of
> > "ghoti." The four sources below
> > raise questions. Was it not Shaw? Why would Shaw worry?
> Since this [ghoti] is not a phonemic or simplified spelling, Shaw
would not
> worry.
> Shaw was so concerned about sound-spellings being mistaken for
uneducated
> spellings, however, that he called for a completely new alphabet
unrelated to the
> contaminated and compromised Roman alphabet. [see
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian]
> > Was Jones quoting an
> > earlier publication by himself?
> You can check the date on the Shaw article in the London Times.
> If it comes before Nov. 1943, then he is probably quoting Shaw.
>
> If not, then he may have been referencing something that may have
been
> brought up in one of the meetings of the spelling society.
Reducing the
> number
> of possible creative or orthogrically legitimate spellings was a
concern of
> the society.
> Joyce would not read
> > Christian Science
> > Monitor, presumably not the first publication? In
> > short, who wrote it [GHOTI] --whether
> > properly called enthusiast or not?
> >
> > Thee Times [London] 2 Nov 1943 p.2:
> >
> > A Hard Spell for Fish
> > Professor Jones on Sounds and Letters
> > Dr. Daniel Jones...speaking on "Reform in English
> > Spelling" astonished his
> > audience at the college last night by suggesting the
> > word 'fish' could be
> > spelled 'ghoti
> >
> > Michael Holroyd, Bernard Shaw, vol. III p. 501,
> > writes a bit unclearly that
> > GBS was concerned about ridicule of spelling reform
> > as a crank subject, which
> > he tried to prevent. "But when an enthusiastic
> > convert suggested that 'ghoti'
> > would be a reasonable way to spell 'fish' under the
> > old system (...),
> That was the critique of traditional spelling. There were too many
> orthographic options.
> /F/ can be spelled several different ways. [See Dewey, G. 1971 for
the exact
> number]
> /I/ can be spelled over 14 ways
> /S/ can be spelled several ways and some overlap with other sounds
> > the subject seemed about to be engulfed in the ridicule
> > from which Shaw was determined to save it.
> Ridicule is better than being ignored.
> Shaw and Twain probably did more the ridicule simplified spelling
than those
> who were opposed to it. They became converts to fonetik spelling
and
> preferred sound-signs that would not be confused with traditional
spelling. Both
> liked Pitman shorthand but wanted a linear version of it --
something that could
> be typeset. See JSSS-31 for a discussion.
> " I don't get why M.H. thought this example was a worry
> > to GBS; but he presents it as not offered by Shaw.
> > The very next sentence (on
> > p. 501) mentions "the phonetic enthusiast James
> > Lecky...." That's why I though[t]
> > the two so-called "enthusiasts" might be identical;
> > but evidently they are not.
> Shaw was a fonetik enthusiast. I think the problem is with the two
concepts
> of
> fonetik. One notion is that any spelling that is orthographically
possible
> is fonetik with respect to traditional English spelling. The
orthographic
> options are often used to distinguish homophones: scent/sent/cent.
>
> The other idea of fonetik refers to a single system of sound signs
where
> there is one and only one symbol for each speech sound.
> > Finnegans Wake (1939) has "gee each owe tea eye smells fish."
>
> > Christian Science Monitor 27 Aug 1938 p. 17 in an
> > unsigned column, "In a
> > lighter vein": "A foreigner insisted that 'fish'
> > should be spelled 'ghoti'...."'...
> >
> > best wishes,
> >
> > Stephen Goranson
> > Perkins Library
> > Duke University
> > Durham NC
> > goranson@d...



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paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Feb 9, by saying

>I noticed in your discussion of the Nonsense word Ghoti
>that you said that:
>"Counting these, the number of
>> possibilities can be reduced to around 15,000. This is still
>slightly inflated
>> because some spellings will have a higher frequency than others and
>these would
>> be tried first. sizzers would probably be the first guess for an
>adult. A
>> 2nd grader would probably guess sizrz."
>
>I don't know of any English spelling rule that would
>allow the reader to think the "SC" diagraph signifies the plain
>"S" sound.

At the bottom I've included a list of all words on my computer's
standard dictionary that contain the sequence "sci". I'd appreciate it
if anyone responding to this message would remember to chop the list off
in your response to keep the message sizes down.

In all words I'm familiar with in the list, except "ASCII", the "sc"
before a syllabic i is pronounced as /s/; when the i is not the main
vowel in the syllable (e.g., "conscious"), it is a /S/ sound. Looks
like a rule to me.

I notice my dictionary is missing the word "scion"; my father convinced
me in my youth that this was pronounced with a "hard c". I never heard
anyone say the word for most of my life, so I was in my thirtes, I
believe, before I started to doubt it and looked it up.

>Perhaps it might be useful from a simplified spelling point
>of view, it would be nice to have a list of words, such as "scissors"
>where the spelling has diverged so far from any notion of rational
>English spelling that we should shun them and only use synonyms.
>For example, I would like to use the word, "shears" from this point
>point on.

My big objection to the spelling of "scissors" is the double-s being
pronounced as a "z". This is the exact opposite of what it should
signify; it should indicate that the sound is, without question, an 's'
sound and not a 'z' sound. But on your main point... I'm not sure where
you're going with that. I thought the point of the whole thing was to
just throw out the old spellings and give them new ones; anybody should
be able to identify what "sizzers" is supposed to mean. And if we're
going to respell everything, why would we need to avoid words that
currently have funny T.O. spelling?

>
>Paul V.
>
>P.S. Just a personal preference, but I would like to hear more about
>Practical matters, rather than discuss a hypothetical test case,
>over and over.
>

Here's the list:

rschmrtz-2k:/usr/share/dict: grep -i sci words
abscissa
abscissas
acquiescing
ASCII
bioscience
coalescing
conscience
consciences
conscientious
conscientiously
conscious
consciously
consciousness
disciple
disciples
disciplinary
discipline
disciplined
disciplines
disciplining
fascicle
fascinate
fascinated
fascinates
fascinating
fascination
fascism
fascist
interdisciplinary
lascivious
luscious
lusciously
lusciousness
Mogadiscio
omniscient
omnisciently
oscillate
oscillated
oscillates
oscillating
oscillation
oscillations
oscillator
oscillators
oscillatory
oscilloscope
oscilloscopes
plebiscite
plebiscites
Priscilla
rescind
resuscitate
science
sciences
scientific
scientifically
scientist
scientists
scissor
scissored
scissoring
scissors
subconscious
subconsciously
unconscionable
unconscious
unconsciously
unconsciousness
undisciplined

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz



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Hi Bob
I was responding to the idea of simplified spelling,
rather than strictly speaking about the Shavian alternative.
Obviously, I have a big stake in people using Shavian, and it is my
preferred method of writing.
But when the spelling T.O. gets too wild for example, Ghoti, I would
expect realistically for people to avoid those words, if there is any
kind of reasonable synonym.
Regards, Paul V.
SC = sh in conscious

--- In shavian@..., Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@s...> wrote:
> paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Feb 9, by saying
>
> >I noticed in your discussion of the Nonsense word Ghoti
> >that you said that:
> >"Counting these, the number of
> >> possibilities can be reduced to around 15,000. This is still
> >slightly inflated
> >> because some spellings will have a higher frequency than others
and
> >these would
> >> be tried first. sizzers would probably be the first guess for an
> >adult. A
> >> 2nd grader would probably guess sizrz."
> >
> >I don't know of any English spelling rule that would
> >allow the reader to think the "SC" diagraph signifies the plain
> >"S" sound.
>
> At the bottom I've included a list of all words on my computer's
> standard dictionary that contain the sequence "sci". I'd
appreciate it
> if anyone responding to this message would remember to chop the
list off
> in your response to keep the message sizes down.
>
> In all words I'm familiar with in the list, except "ASCII", the "sc"
> before a syllabic i is pronounced as /s/; when the i is not the main
> vowel in the syllable (e.g., "conscious"), it is a /S/ sound. Looks
> like a rule to me.
>
> I notice my dictionary is missing the word "scion"; my father
convinced
> me in my youth that this was pronounced with a "hard c". I never
heard
> anyone say the word for most of my life, so I was in my thirtes, I
> believe, before I started to doubt it and looked it up.
>
> >Perhaps it might be useful from a simplified spelling point
> >of view, it would be nice to have a list of words, such
as "scissors"
> >where the spelling has diverged so far from any notion of rational
> >English spelling that we should shun them and only use synonyms.
> >For example, I would like to use the word, "shears" from this point
> >point on.
>
> My big objection to the spelling of "scissors" is the double-s being
> pronounced as a "z". This is the exact opposite of what it should
> signify; it should indicate that the sound is, without question,
an 's'
> sound and not a 'z' sound. But on your main point... I'm not sure
where
> you're going with that. I thought the point of the whole thing was
to
> just throw out the old spellings and give them new ones; anybody
should
> be able to identify what "sizzers" is supposed to mean. And if
we're
> going to respell everything, why would we need to avoid words that
> currently have funny T.O. spelling?
>
> >
> >Paul V.
> >
> >P.S. Just a personal preference, but I would like to hear more
about
> >Practical matters, rather than discuss a hypothetical test case,
> >over and over.
> >
>
> Here's the list:
>
> rschmrtz-2k:/usr/share/dict: grep -i sci words
> abscissa
> abscissas
> acquiescing
> ASCII
> bioscience
> coalescing
> conscience
> consciences
> conscientious
> conscientiously
> conscious
> consciously
> consciousness
> disciple
> disciples
> disciplinary
> discipline
> disciplined
> disciplines
> disciplining
> fascicle
> fascinate
> fascinated
> fascinates
> fascinating
> fascination
> fascism
> fascist
> interdisciplinary
> lascivious
> luscious
> lusciously
> lusciousness
> Mogadiscio
> omniscient
> omnisciently
> oscillate
> oscillated
> oscillates
> oscillating
> oscillation
> oscillations
> oscillator
> oscillators
> oscillatory
> oscilloscope
> oscilloscopes
> plebiscite
> plebiscites
> Priscilla
> rescind
> resuscitate
> science
> sciences
> scientific
> scientifically
> scientist
> scientists
> scissor
> scissored
> scissoring
> scissors
> subconscious
> subconsciously
> unconscionable
> unconscious
> unconsciously
> unconsciousness
> undisciplined
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bob Schmertz



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paul vandenbrink wrote:

> P.S. Just a personal preference, but I would like to hear more about
> Practical matters, rather than discuss a hypothetical test case,
> over and over.

Yes, practical matters, like how to get Shavian working well on our
computers!
??????, ?????????????????? ??????????, ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ·??????????
?????????? ?????? ???? ???? ????????????????!

Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?
?????? ?????????????? ?????? ?? ·?????????? ?????????? ???? ??????
???????????
--
·???????? (Ethan)





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Bob Schmertz wrote:
> At the bottom I've included a list of all words on my computer's
> standard dictionary that contain the sequence "sci". I'd appreciate it
> if anyone responding to this message would remember to chop the list off
> in your response to keep the message sizes down.

Done!

> In all words I'm familiar with in the list, except "ASCII", the "sc"
> before a syllabic i is pronounced as /s/; when the i is not the main
> vowel in the syllable (e.g., "conscious"), it is a /S/ sound. Looks
> like a rule to me.

Pronounced like "sk":
ASCII - This is an acronym, as many of you know, for "American Standard
Code for Information Interchange", and as a modern acronym, it's
understandable that it might not follow the normal spelling /
pronunciation rules.

Pronounced like "sh":
conscience (and derivatives)
This word, like others in the list with similar construction, follows
the same rule as words like nation, anxious, and mission, and this
acounts for the "sh" sound.

fascism
Mogadiscio
These two words are of foreign origin, and follow the rules of the
languages they come from. Fascism comes from Italian, and Mogadiscio is
an alternative spelling for Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia.

So I guess you could conclude that it is a rule of English spelling that
"sc" before a front vowel (e,i,y) is pronounced like "s", unless the
word falls under the rule regarding words like mission, etc. with a few
exeptions, being mostly words of foreign origin.

> I notice my dictionary is missing the word "scion"; my father convinced
> me in my youth that this was pronounced with a "hard c". I never heard
> anyone say the word for most of my life, so I was in my thirtes, I
> believe, before I started to doubt it and looked it up.

The American Heritage Dictionary says that scion is pronounced like
"????????" (sIan). (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/S0148900.html)

>
> Here's the list:
>
> rschmrtz-2k:/usr/share/dict: grep -i sci words

Hey, I tried that and guess what?

[ethan@main ethan]$ cd /usr/share/dict/
[ethan@main dict]$ grep -i sci words
abscissa
abscissas
acquiescing
ASCII
bioscience
coalescing
...

I didn't even know you could do that!

--
·???????? - Ethan



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On 9 Feb 2004 at 23:37, Ethan wrote:

> Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?

I cannot, at least from this computer and email program (which are
probably both equally at fault - Pegasus Mail for not understanding UTF-
8 (!!!) and Win98 for not being terribly good at Unicode).

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>




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Philip Newton wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2004 at 23:37, Ethan wrote:
>
>
>>Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?
>
>
> I cannot, at least from this computer and email program (which are
> probably both equally at fault - Pegasus Mail for not understanding UTF-
> 8 (!!!) and Win98 for not being terribly good at Unicode).
>
> Cheers,
> Philip

Yes, of that I'm familiar. I haven't yet managed to get Win98 to
display plane 1 characters at all, no matter what the encoding. I can't
even get it to consitently display plane 0 characters! I've heard
though that 2000 and XP both have good support for plane 1 characters.
If so, then all that's needed is the font, and you're off and running.

I get around the trouble by using Linux most of the time! Its support
for plane 1 Shavian characters is getting better all the time.

I'm currently using my convertor program I mentioned a while ago to
create the Shavian text. If I can figure out how to create a keymap for
Shavian, I might be able to type directly in Shavian just by pressing a
"magic key" or key combo to switch to my Shavian keymap. That'll be the
day I've been waiting for!

Oh, and my convertor program works great, but isn't quite ready for
public release. A couple of bugs could cause confusion for users, so I
have to fix them first.

--
·???????? - Ethan




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