Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

From: carl easton
Date: 2004-03-04 21:32:29 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Viewpoint

Toggle Shavian
Hi Paul,

Last month I finished reading the five books of Moses, Now I'm in Joshua. I finished reading the 6th chapter of Joshua last night. My goal is to read all of the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.

Anyways, best regards,

Carl

paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

Hi Carl

You could call it the written Torah or Chumash. We have an Oral
tradition or commentary on the 5 Books of Moses that we call the Oral
Torah.
Or you could say Tanach which includes all the books up until the
story of Ester and Mordechai. Happy Purim by the way.
We have some pretty good modern English translations by the way.
Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Torah has other meanings. For example, it is also used in the
sense of G-ds Law,
as determined from the 5 books of Moses.
P.P.S. This would be a very long term project for me.
I did transliterate the 23d Psalm into Shavian, tho.
____________________attached_________________________



--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think it's awesome that you plan to transliterate the five books
of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings from a modern translation.
In the Jewish Faith what are these books called together, by the way?
[If memory serves well the five books of Moses, are called the Torah.]
>
> best regards,
>
> Carl /kRal/
>
> paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> The King James Version is very poetical, and has a relatively small
> stack of words.
> There are few minor disagreements on small number of words in the
> older translations. Supposedly, the new translations are closer to
> the original meaning. Anyway,
> I suppose I could transliterate a modern translation of the first 5
> books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
> That covers the important stuff from my religous point of view.
>
> Regards, Paul Vandenbrink
> ______________________-attached-____________________________
> --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Paul and others,
> >
> > I'm glad you agree with me on certain points of interest. Yes, I
> plan on transliterating the Holy Bible (Old and New Testament). As
> for which version I will first do the King James Version. Then my
> favorite alternate translation th New International Version. In my
> last posting I mentioned the "Standard Works" of my Church (The
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) These include, the
> Holy Bible (King James Version), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
> and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. [Ethan has a website
> concerning a transliteration of the King James Bible into Shavian]
> >
> > However, I encourage all Shavian Enthusiast, not of my faith (if
> ambitious enough) to transliterate their Sacred Texts, to broaden
> the horizion of Shavian.
> >
> > And just like you Paul, I write with Shavian in my journal. I
> think my role to the Shavian Community should be to transliterate
> books into Shavian. I hope other Shavian Enthusiasts will take the
> opportunaty to make academic contributions to Shavian, so that
> Shavian will no longer be a "dead" alphabet, but have just as much
> vitality as T.O..
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Carl /kRal/
> >
> > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > Hi Carl & the group
> > As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate
> English-
> > speaking world:
> > I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to a
> > constant challenge to stay up to date.
> > That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
> > There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
> > A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a
> variant
> > pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
> > I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with T.O.,
> > though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
> > reading Shavian.
> >
> > So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> > transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more practice.
> > It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
> >
> > I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
> > Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some
> funny
> > pronunciations.
> >
> > I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile goal.
> > I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-
> speaking
> > world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian books,
> and
> > then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further exposure
> to
> > Shavian Alphabet.
> > We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our
favorite
> > writing system.
> > Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American
> cousins.
> >
> > Regards, Paul V.
> >
> > --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
> > speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
> > Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I
would
> > like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though
> there
> > is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
> > Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing
> texts
> > into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I will
> > first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I
> will
> > transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community
would
> > like to see into Shavian.
> > >
> > > Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think one
> of
> > the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to the
> > benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other
> stuff
> > it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what I
> > hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system --
Shavian.
> > >
> > > best regards,
> > >
> > > Carl /kRal/
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Click Here
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.




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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-03-05 17:17:53 #
Subject: [shavian] Viewpoints on the Bible and Shaw

Toggle Shavian
Hi Carl

There are a lot of correspondences between Moses and Joshua.
In much the same way, that Issac had to repeat some of things that
Avraham did.
Joshua had go through many of the same trials and tests of Moses.
Well worth while reading the 6 books together.
Things get pretty violent in these later books. Especially when the
tribe of Benjarmin repeat the crime of the City of Sodom. You have to
take it with a grain of salt and not look back. {Joke}
Anyway, were you going to post tranliterations?
Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Last month I finished reading the five books of Moses, Now I'm in
Joshua. I finished reading the 6th chapter of Joshua last night. My
goal is to read all of the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.
>
> Anyways, best regards,
>
> Carl
>
> paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> Hi Carl
>
> You could call it the written Torah or Chumash. We have an Oral
> tradition or commentary on the 5 Books of Moses that we call the
Oral
> Torah.
> Or you could say Tanach which includes all the books up until the
> story of Ester and Mordechai. Happy Purim by the way.
> We have some pretty good modern English translations by the way.
> Regards, Paul V.
>
> P.S. Torah has other meanings. For example, it is also used in the
> sense of G-ds Law,
> as determined from the 5 books of Moses.
> P.P.S. This would be a very long term project for me.
> I did transliterate the 23d Psalm into Shavian, tho.
> ____________________attached_________________________
>
>
>
> --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I think it's awesome that you plan to transliterate the five
books
> of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings from a modern translation.
> In the Jewish Faith what are these books called together, by the
way?
> [If memory serves well the five books of Moses, are called the
Torah.]
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > Carl /kRal/
> >
> > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > The King James Version is very poetical, and has a relatively
small
> > stack of words.
> > There are few minor disagreements on small number of words in the
> > older translations. Supposedly, the new translations are closer
to
> > the original meaning. Anyway,
> > I suppose I could transliterate a modern translation of the first
5
> > books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
> > That covers the important stuff from my religous point of view.
> >
> > Regards, Paul Vandenbrink
> > ______________________-attached-____________________________
> > --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hi Paul and others,
> > >
> > > I'm glad you agree with me on certain points of interest. Yes,
I
> > plan on transliterating the Holy Bible (Old and New Testament).
As
> > for which version I will first do the King James Version. Then
my
> > favorite alternate translation th New International Version. In
my
> > last posting I mentioned the "Standard Works" of my Church (The
> > Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) These include, the
> > Holy Bible (King James Version), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
> > and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. [Ethan has a
website
> > concerning a transliteration of the King James Bible into Shavian]
> > >
> > > However, I encourage all Shavian Enthusiast, not of my faith
(if
> > ambitious enough) to transliterate their Sacred Texts, to broaden
> > the horizion of Shavian.
> > >
> > > And just like you Paul, I write with Shavian in my journal. I
> > think my role to the Shavian Community should be to transliterate
> > books into Shavian. I hope other Shavian Enthusiasts will take
the
> > opportunaty to make academic contributions to Shavian, so that
> > Shavian will no longer be a "dead" alphabet, but have just as
much
> > vitality as T.O..
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Carl /kRal/
> > >
> > > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Carl & the group
> > > As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate
> > English-
> > > speaking world:
> > > I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to
a
> > > constant challenge to stay up to date.
> > > That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
> > > There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
> > > A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a
> > variant
> > > pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
> > > I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with
T.O.,
> > > though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
> > > reading Shavian.
> > >
> > > So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> > > transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more
practice.
> > > It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
> > >
> > > I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
> > > Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some
> > funny
> > > pronunciations.
> > >
> > > I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile
goal.
> > > I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-
> > speaking
> > > world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian
books,
> > and
> > > then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further
exposure
> > to
> > > Shavian Alphabet.
> > > We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our
> favorite
> > > writing system.
> > > Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American
> > cousins.
> > >
> > > Regards, Paul V.
> > >
> > > --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > > Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
> > > speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
> > > Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I
> would
> > > like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though
> > there
> > > is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
> > > Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing
> > texts
> > > into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I
will
> > > first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I
> > will
> > > transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community
> would
> > > like to see into Shavian.
> > > >
> > > > Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think
one
> > of
> > > the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to
the
> > > benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other
> > stuff
> > > it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what
I
> > > hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system --
> Shavian.
> > > >
> > > > best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Carl /kRal/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > Click Here
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Click Here
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.




Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shavian-unsubscribe@...

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-03-05 17:17:53 #
Subject: [shavian] Viewpoints on the Bible and Shaw

Toggle Shavian
Hi Carl

There are a lot of correspondences between Moses and Joshua.
In much the same way, that Issac had to repeat some of things that
Avraham did.
Joshua had go through many of the same trials and tests of Moses.
Well worth while reading the 6 books together.
Things get pretty violent in these later books. Especially when the
tribe of Benjarmin repeat the crime of the City of Sodom. You have to
take it with a grain of salt and not look back. {Joke}
Anyway, were you going to post tranliterations?
Regards, Paul V.


--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Last month I finished reading the five books of Moses, Now I'm in
Joshua. I finished reading the 6th chapter of Joshua last night. My
goal is to read all of the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.
>
> Anyways, best regards,
>
> Carl
>
> paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> Hi Carl
>
> You could call it the written Torah or Chumash. We have an Oral
> tradition or commentary on the 5 Books of Moses that we call the
Oral
> Torah.
> Or you could say Tanach which includes all the books up until the
> story of Ester and Mordechai. Happy Purim by the way.
> We have some pretty good modern English translations by the way.
> Regards, Paul V.
>
> P.S. Torah has other meanings. For example, it is also used in the
> sense of G-ds Law,
> as determined from the 5 books of Moses.
> P.P.S. This would be a very long term project for me.
> I did transliterate the 23d Psalm into Shavian, tho.
> ____________________attached_________________________
>
>
>
> --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
wrote:
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > I think it's awesome that you plan to transliterate the five
books
> of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings from a modern translation.
> In the Jewish Faith what are these books called together, by the
way?
> [If memory serves well the five books of Moses, are called the
Torah.]
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > Carl /kRal/
> >
> > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > The King James Version is very poetical, and has a relatively
small
> > stack of words.
> > There are few minor disagreements on small number of words in the
> > older translations. Supposedly, the new translations are closer
to
> > the original meaning. Anyway,
> > I suppose I could transliterate a modern translation of the first
5
> > books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
> > That covers the important stuff from my religous point of view.
> >
> > Regards, Paul Vandenbrink
> > ______________________-attached-____________________________
> > --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
> wrote:
> > > Hi Paul and others,
> > >
> > > I'm glad you agree with me on certain points of interest. Yes,
I
> > plan on transliterating the Holy Bible (Old and New Testament).
As
> > for which version I will first do the King James Version. Then
my
> > favorite alternate translation th New International Version. In
my
> > last posting I mentioned the "Standard Works" of my Church (The
> > Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) These include, the
> > Holy Bible (King James Version), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
> > and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. [Ethan has a
website
> > concerning a transliteration of the King James Bible into Shavian]
> > >
> > > However, I encourage all Shavian Enthusiast, not of my faith
(if
> > ambitious enough) to transliterate their Sacred Texts, to broaden
> > the horizion of Shavian.
> > >
> > > And just like you Paul, I write with Shavian in my journal. I
> > think my role to the Shavian Community should be to transliterate
> > books into Shavian. I hope other Shavian Enthusiasts will take
the
> > opportunaty to make academic contributions to Shavian, so that
> > Shavian will no longer be a "dead" alphabet, but have just as
much
> > vitality as T.O..
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Carl /kRal/
> > >
> > > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Carl & the group
> > > As for the role the Shavian Alphabet should play to literate
> > English-
> > > speaking world:
> > > I find literacy even with the Traditional Orthography (T.O.) to
a
> > > constant challenge to stay up to date.
> > > That's why I prefer Shavian over the T.O.
> > > There isn't the struggle to pick up the correct pronunciation.
> > > A lot of new English word are borrowed from french and have a
> > variant
> > > pronunciation (i.e. Ouevre)
> > > I would like to be able to read as fast with Shavian as with
T.O.,
> > > though there is not enough literature to become super-swift at
> > > reading Shavian.
> > >
> > > So, what I hoping is that someone will build a program to
> > > transliterate existing texts into Shavian, so I can more
practice.
> > > It would be nice if their was a newspaper, even.
> > >
> > > I am glad to hear that Carl intends to translate the Bible into
> > > Shavian. A modern translation I hope. The King James has some
> > funny
> > > pronunciations.
> > >
> > > I also think that this is an ambitious but very worthwhile
goal.
> > > I think one of the first few steps to exposing the English-
> > speaking
> > > world to the benefits of Shavian, is to bring out Shavian
books,
> > and
> > > then to do all the other stuff it takes to give further
exposure
> > to
> > > Shavian Alphabet.
> > > We have to do what we can to propogate and deseminate our
> favorite
> > > writing system.
> > > Hopefully revised enough to understandable by our American
> > cousins.
> > >
> > > Regards, Paul V.
> > >
> > > --- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi Folks,
> > > >
> > > > Concerning the role Shavian should play to literate English-
> > > speaking world: As for me I am highly literate with Traditional
> > > Orthography (T.O.). However, I prefer Shavian over T.O.. I
> would
> > > like to be just as literate with Shavian as with T.O., though
> > there
> > > is not enough literature to become super-literate at reading
> > > Shavian. So, what I would like to do is transliterate existing
> > texts
> > > into Shavian, once I get an internet-ready computer. And I
will
> > > first transliterate the "Standard Works" of my Church. Then I
> > will
> > > transliterate just about anything else the Shavian Community
> would
> > > like to see into Shavian.
> > > >
> > > > Though, that is ambitious it is a worthwhile goal. I think
one
> > of
> > > the first few steps to exposing the English-speaking world to
the
> > > benefits of Shavian, to bring out Shavian books, then the other
> > stuff
> > > it takes to give further exposure to Shavian. And that is what
I
> > > hope we can do to publicize our favorite writing system --
> Shavian.
> > > >
> > > > best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Carl /kRal/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > Click Here
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Click Here
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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From: Bob Schmertz
Date: 2004-03-06 01:36:56 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Viewpoints on the Bible and Shaw

Toggle Shavian
These 12KB messages are getting pretty off-topic (although, ironically,
I'm glad I don't have to think too hard about whether to delete them).

paul vandenbrink incurred the wrath of Bob on Mar 5, by saying

>Hi Carl
>
>There are a lot of correspondences between Moses and Joshua.
>In much the same way, that Issac had to repeat some of things that
>Avraham did.
>Joshua had go through many of the same trials and tests of Moses.
>Well worth while reading the 6 books together.
>Things get pretty violent in these later books. Especially when the
>tribe of Benjarmin repeat the crime of the City of Sodom. You have to
>take it with a grain of salt and not look back. {Joke}
>Anyway, were you going to post tranliterations?
>Regards, Paul V.
>

[270 lines snipped]

--
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Bob Schmertz



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From: Ethan
Date: 2004-03-06 05:26:46 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Everybody wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>>Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
>>>>
>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>>
>>>Service.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------
>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>>>Click Here
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>
>>Service.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>>Click Here
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
> Service.
>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It might be a good idea to remove unnecessary parts from responses, such
as what I left in above for an example. That way, the messages don't
continue to grow with each response, and we won't have too much trouble
finding the relevant parts of the message!

--
·???????? - Ethan




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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2004-03-06 14:08:07 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Off-topic:

Do what I do and top post. That's how Outlook Express has it set up by
default and despite the many moaners who hate it, it's a much better way of
organising it. That way the message you really WANT to read is right under
your nose rather than 28837873425 lines down.

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan" <ethanl@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages


> Everybody wrote:
>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>>Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>>>
> >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >>>
> >>>Service.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >>>Click Here
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >>
> >>Service.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------
> >>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >>Click Here
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >
> > Service.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> It might be a good idea to remove unnecessary parts from responses, such
> as what I left in above for an example. That way, the messages don't
> continue to grow with each response, and we won't have too much trouble
> finding the relevant parts of the message!
>
> --
> ·???????? - Ethan
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2004-03-06 14:11:35 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Off-topic:

Do what I do and top post. That's how Outlook Express has it set up by
default and despite the many moaners who hate it, it's a much better way of
organising it. That way the message you really WANT to read is right under
your nose rather than 28837873425 lines down.

Hugh B


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan" <ethanl@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages


> Everybody wrote:
>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>>Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>>>
> >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >>>
> >>>Service.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>---------------------------------
> >>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >>>Click Here
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >>
> >>Service.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------
> >>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> >>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >>Click Here
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >
> > Service.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> It might be a good idea to remove unnecessary parts from responses, such
> as what I left in above for an example. That way, the messages don't
> continue to grow with each response, and we won't have too much trouble
> finding the relevant parts of the message!
>
> --
> ·???????? - Ethan
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>




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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-03-07 02:59:51 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Hi Hugh
I always Top post even if I have to cut out the section that I am
responding to and paste it into my message.
I will just have to remember to clear away the debris. At the end of
my messages. Sorry for the size of the post.

Hi Bob
Sorry, I will try and stay on topic. Too much religous discussion
going around, and any anyway there are religous sites for all that.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> Off-topic:
>
> Do what I do and top post. That's how Outlook Express has it set
up by
> default and despite the many moaners who hate it, it's a much
better way of
> organising it. That way the message you really WANT to read is
right under
> your nose rather than 28837873425 lines down.
>
> Hugh B
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ethan" <ethanl@3...>
> To: <shavian@...>
> Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:28 AM
> Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages
>
>
> > Everybody wrote:
> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>---------------------------------
> > >>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> > >>>>>Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>---------------------------------
> > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >>>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> > >>>
> > >>>Service.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>---------------------------------
> > >>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> > >>>>Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > >>>Click Here
> > >>>
> > >>>---------------------------------
> > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> > >>>
> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >>>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >>>
> > >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > >>
> > >>Service.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>---------------------------------
> > >>>Do you Yahoo!?
> > >>>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > >>Click Here
> > >>
> > >>---------------------------------
> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >>shavian-unsubscribe@...
> > >>
> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > >
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>---------------------------------
> > >>Do you Yahoo!?
> > >>Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It might be a good idea to remove unnecessary parts from
responses, such
> > as what I left in above for an example. That way, the messages
don't
> > continue to grow with each response, and we won't have too much
trouble
> > finding the relevant parts of the message!
> >
> > --
> > ·?`°?`"?`©?`¯ - Ethan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




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From: Bob Schmertz
Date: 2004-03-07 09:00:58 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Hugh Birkenhead incurred the wrath of Bob on Mar 6, by saying

>Off-topic:
>
>Do what I do and top post. That's how Outlook Express has it set up by
>default and despite the many moaners who hate it, it's a much better way of
>organising it. That way the message you really WANT to read is right under
>your nose

And the parts that those parts are responding to are a page or two down,
so you get the fun of non-sequential reading and jumping up and down if
you want to really understand what the part you "WANT" to read means.
Yes, we should all do our work the way Microsoft wants us to do it,
because they know better than we do.

>rather than 28837873425 lines down.

In my experience, when using bottom- or inline-posting, the numbers
don't get this big, because people are more aware of all the stuff they
are passing around, and more likely to trim. With the top-post method,
it's so easy to ignore the 28837873425 lines below your own reply,
because only the top 20 lines of your quoted text appear in your window,
and this, IMO, is PRECISELY why the subject of this sub-thread contains
the number "10,000". The comparisons between the Torah and the books of
the Bible were being bandied about with the rest of the iceberg getting
bigger and bigger. So I fail to see what your suggestion does to help
things, although perhaps you were not suggestsing a solution but merely
expressing your irritation at having to scroll down past a lot of Yahoo
advertising to find out what Ethan had to say. But, especially in this
casse, this was exactly the best way for him to make his point.

>
>Hugh B
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ethan" <ethanl@...>
>To: <shavian@...>
>Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:28 AM
>Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages
>
>

[illustrative lines full of Yahoo advertising snipped]

>>
>> It might be a good idea to remove unnecessary parts from responses, such
>> as what I left in above for an example. That way, the messages don't
>> continue to grow with each response, and we won't have too much trouble
>> finding the relevant parts of the message!
>>
>> --
>> ·𐑰𐑔𐑩𐑯 - Ethan
>>

[more yahoo stuff, added since Ethan's post, snipped]

--
Cheers,
Bob Schmertz


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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-03-07 18:06:50 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: 10,000+ character messages

Toggle Shavian
Hi Everybody
Shall we just agree that a little creative editing is in everyones
best interest and move on.
The Medium is not the message.
Regards, Paul V.
___________________________________attached__________________________
--- In shavian@..., Bob Schmertz <rschmertz@s...> wrote:
> Hugh Birkenhead incurred the wrath of Bob on Mar 6, by saying
>
> >Off-topic:
> >
> >Do what I do and top post. That's how Outlook Express has it set
up by
> >default and despite the many moaners who hate it, it's a much
better way of
> >organising it. That way the message you really WANT to read is
right under
> >your nose
>
> And the parts that those parts are responding to are a page or two
down,
> so you get the fun of non-sequential reading and jumping up and
down if
> you want to really understand what the part you "WANT" to read
means.
> Yes, we should all do our work the way Microsoft wants us to do it,
> because they know better than we do.
>
> >rather than 28837873425 lines down.
>
> In my experience, when using bottom- or inline-posting, the numbers
> don't get this big, because people are more aware of all the stuff
they
> are passing around, and more likely to trim. With the top-post
method,
> it's so easy to ignore the 28837873425 lines below your own reply,
> because only the top 20 lines of your quoted text appear in your
window,
> and this, IMO, is PRECISELY why the subject of this sub-thread
contains
> the number "10,000". The comparisons between the Torah and the
books of
> the Bible were being bandied about with the rest of the iceberg
getting
> bigger and bigger. So I fail to see what your suggestion does to
help
> things, although perhaps you were not suggestsing a solution but
merely
> expressing your irritation at having to scroll down past a lot of
Yahoo
> advertising to find out what Ethan had to say. But, especially in
this
> case, this was exactly the best way for him to make his point.
>





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