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Perhaps there could be a slight alteration of the first letter, such as
a line or cross or something as part of the first letter to say "this
is the first part of a symbol" so that you could use single symbols for
common elements such as oxygen and carbon.

--Star

--- Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:
> As I was sitting in chemistry class today, I looked up at the
> periodic table and
> wondered what it would look like in Shavian. I thought it would be
> rather interesting
> to see all the elements marked with Shavian letters. That's when I
> decided I have to
> make one.


=====
Why is it always me and the burning death?

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Re: the curves in your fonts, don't worry too much, the fonts look great as they are!

But the positions - it would be good to have a set of fonts that all use the official Unicode points, for download. I have Microsoft's keyboard layout editor (which creates an installable package for Windows XP computers) - all I have to do is create a keyboard layout that uses Shaw characters, offer it for download, and people (at least those using XP) will have the ability to switch to the Shavian keyboard layout whenever appropriate (using XP's "language bar") and enter Shavian characters - without having to change fonts! I don't know if the Mac can do this, or if anyone here can create keyboard layouts for it... hands up anyone...

Hugh B

P.S. "Andagii" appears to have a problem with spacing - the cursor moves too far to the right when typing conventional Roman letters in - if I type in "hello there" the cursor will end up a whole word's length to the right of "there" (try it yourselves)

----- Original Message -----
From: Ph. D. <mailto:phild@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Unicode

Shaw has been assigned permanent code points starting
at hex 10450. This is in plane 1 which means that more
then two bytes are needed for each character.

I currently use Fontographer 4.1 which does not recognize
code points greater than hex FFFF. Ethan has offered to
move the characters in my fonts to the correct code points.
I'm currently in the process of smoothing the curves in my
fonts, but I've just been too busy with my day job and my
other interests to get very far.

--Phillip Driscoll

----- Originala Mesagxo -----
De: Scott Harrison <mailto:scott@...>
Al: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sendita: Lundon, 29an de marto 2004, 12:23 ptm
Temo: Re: [shavian] Unicode

On Mar 28, 2004, at 08:33, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:

(FAO in particular Phillip Driscoll)

Can anyone tell me what stage we are at regarding Unicode points?

Has Shavian been allocated some permanent points, and if so do we have a font that has the Shavian characters at those permanent points?

If the fonts we have have the Shavian characters in the old 'temporary' positions, should it be an easy matter to move them to the permanent ones?

Shavian has been assigned its permanent Unicode points starting in version 4.0 of Unicode. There are a couple of fonts out there that handle Shavian at those points -- Andagii and ESL_Gothic_Unicode come to mind right now. Moving characters in a font can be problematic and should only be done with a font tool I would imagine. However, it is easy enough to get fonts with the characters in the proper positions. If you want specific fonts you may want to talk with the font creators to have them produce fonts with the proper code points.

The major issue will be to convert documents already in Unicode at the temporary points over to their final points, or to convert ASCII documents over to Unicode.




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> Dear Joe and others,
>
> On the following website there is a periodic table in Shavian script.
>
> http://www.mithrandir.com/Shavian/Shavian.html
>
> John Warner

But this still brings up the point of how to tell one element from
another? They are two symbol groups, which works, but having just
glanced at it, it might be easier to have sort of a "chemistry"
shavian. After all, it would not be the first time that science has
altered the alphabet to their own use... can you say mathematics? sure,
I knew you could.

--Star


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Hi Hugh,

I agree we Shavian Users must use the American Heritage Dictionary for Formal Shavian pronouncation, as you have indicated due to it's equivalence of Shaw Letters and balance of Brittish and American accents.

regards,

Carl

Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:

As an aside... (I know I know I've said it before) I still think we should
use the American Heritage Dictionary as a guide for pronunciations because
it is a perfect compromise of British and American Englishes. It uses
rhoticisms, it features indications of when to use up/ado, when to use
err/array, when to use ah/awe, and it's easily checkable via
www.dictionary.com. Check it out...

So basically, when anyone isn't sure about how a word should be spelled when
writing something for mass consumption, simply look it up there.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <allegrox_2000@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: Wow, it's been a long time


> --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
> > P.S. I like the Shaw poster - it's great stuff and I'd like one for
myself!
>
> Thank you!
>
> > [dIpends] perhaps could be [dipends] but it doesn't matter
> > [anrIzanabal] should be [unrIzanabal] with an initial 'u'
>
> I say [dIpendz], though I could change the first vowel to better show the
actual stress.
> And I wrote [anrIzanabal] because, for some reason, when I said it to
myself, I didn't
> stress the initial vowel. I had it the other way, and then I changed it .
. . . I think I'm
> really losing my mind.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



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Hi Paul,

Your awesome for helping me with this. Tommorrow and/or next week I'll see if I can find a Jewish-English translation of the story of the Tower of Babel, post that at www.shavian.org <http://www.shavian.org> and I was also thinking of translitering the said story from the New Living Translation.

best of regards,

Carl

paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@...> wrote:

Hi Carl

I finished the Shaw transliteration of "The Tower of Babel" on Hugh's
Ikonboard and I noticed some minor variations between our
translations of the story. Nothing too significant. The theme of G-ds
ultimate power still comes thru. Anyway let me know if you have any
questions.
Regards, Paul V.



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Hi Joe,

I've also thinking about how to integrate Shavian with Science. The conclusion used Roman for abbreviations and Shavian for the actual text. It's kinda like how we use Greek letters in Mathematic, though we don't write with Greek letters.

regards,

Carl

Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:

As I was sitting in chemistry class today, I looked up at the periodic table and
wondered what it would look like in Shavian. I thought it would be rather interesting
to see all the elements marked with Shavian letters. That's when I decided I have to
make one.

But then I started thinking about how I would actually go about assigning letters to
the elements. This is where it gets complicated.

In case anyone is not well acquainted with it, the Periodic table lists all the known
elements in order of their atomic number (number of protons), each having a one- or
two-letter "symbol" that represents it. In the current system, the first letter is always
capitalized, the second (if there is one) is always lowercase. This makes it easy to tell
where one symbol ends and the next begins because each starts with a capital letter.

You probably already knew that, but I'm just making sure. And it's a good lead-in.
^_~

Anyway, this presents a problem for transliteration, since Shavian has only one case.
I even thought of the idea of starting every symbol with a tall or deep letter, and
making any additional letter short. But it just doesn't work with some elements.

Namer does could be used, perhaps, but that could cause confusion with the
hydration dot, which is used to show how much water is in a crystal.

But I thought maybe they should just each have exactly two letters. Then there would
be no confusion. I'm not really sure, though. It'll be interesting to see what others
think about it.




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--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott@m...> wrote:

> As John Warner mentioned, you can find what I did for a periodic table
> on my website. From the notes there you will see that I did decide on
> a uniform two characters for each element. It seems to work well, and
> there is no ambiguity with regard to where one element ends and another
> starts.


Your table looks good. It's about what had in mind. I tried to assign the elements
symbols myself, but most are identical to what you've got.

Anyway, I think you've done a better job than I would have, and there's no sense in
trying to reinvent the wheel, as they say.




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--- In shavian@..., Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote:

> Perhaps there could be a slight alteration of the first letter, such as
> a line or cross or something as part of the first letter to say "this
> is the first part of a symbol" so that you could use single symbols for
> common elements such as oxygen and carbon.

That may be a good idea. Maybe just underlining the first letter would work. Of
course, after thinking about that for a while, I've realized that in type, the adjacent
underlined letters will tend to look connected since the underline is a single,
continuous line.

In any case, dots are definitely not a good idea, but a crossbar may work.




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On Mar 30, 2004, at 11:03, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:



Re: the curves in your fonts, don't worry too much, the fonts look great as they are!

But the positions - it would be good to have a set of fonts that all use the official Unicode points, for download. I have Microsoft's keyboard layout editor (which creates an installable package for Windows XP computers) - all I have to do is create a keyboard layout that uses Shaw characters, offer it for download, and people (at least those using XP) will have the ability to switch to the Shavian keyboard layout whenever appropriate (using XP's "language bar") and enter Shavian characters - without having to change fonts! I don't know if the Mac can do this, or if anyone here can create keyboard layouts for it... hands up anyone...




I have two keyboard layouts for Mac OS X available on my website. One matches the "classic" layout I originally found in the DeMeyere fonts and the other was posted on this group by Star Raven. As long as the Mac has a Unicode font that contains Shavian characters at their Unicode 4.0 loaded, there is no problem typing and displaying Shavian.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86

Hi Carl

You can try the Jerusalem Bible. That's a Jewish English Edition.
My translation from the Hebrew is pretty close to the original, too.
I used the Rashi interpretation, which is definitive for the literal
meaning.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. The New Living Translation is pretty good. No Hurry, tho.
___________________attached__________________

--- In shavian@..., carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Your awesome for helping me with this. Tommorrow and/or next week
I'll see if I can find a Jewish-English translation of the story of
the Tower of Babel, post that at www.shavian.org and I was also
thinking of translitering the said story from the New Living
Translation.
>
> best of regards,
>
> Carl
>
> paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> Hi Carl
>
> I finished the Shaw transliteration of "The Tower of Babel" on
Hugh's
> Ikonboard and I noticed some minor variations between our
> translations of the story. Nothing too significant. The theme of G-
ds
> ultimate power still comes thru. Anyway let me know if you have any
> questions.
> Regards, Paul V.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shavian-unsubscribe@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.



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