Shavian eGroup Archive Browser
From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-02-11 01:12:40 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Scissors question
Toggle Shavian
> > Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?
> > 𐑒𐑨𐑯 𐑧𐑯𐑰𐑚𐑳𐑛𐑰 𐑮𐑰𐑛 𐑞
> ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑑𐑧𐑒𐑕𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑞𐑦𐑕
> > 𐑥𐑧𐑕𐑩𐑡?
> > --
> > ·𐑰𐑔𐑩𐑯 (Ethan)
>
> All I see are squares.
>
> Hugh B
>
>
I see wierder things than squares... if I didn't know better I'd call
it a garbage dump.
--Star
=====
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-02-11 01:12:40 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Scissors question
Toggle Shavian
> > Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?
> > pp(p/ p'p/p0pp3pp0 p.p0p p
> B7pp1pp>p/ pp'ppp p&p/ pp&p
> > p%p'pp)p!?
> > --
> > B7p0pp)p/ (Ethan)
>
> All I see are squares.
>
> Hugh B
>
>
I see wierder things than squares... if I didn't know better I'd call
it a garbage dump.
--Star
=====
Why is it always me and the burning death?
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From: Ethan
Date: 2004-02-11 05:54:06 #
Subject: [shavian] Shavian in UTF-8
Toggle Shavian
Star Raven wrote:
>>>Can anybody read the Shavian text in this message?
>>>ð‘’ð‘¨ð‘¯ ð‘§ð‘¯ð‘°ð‘šð‘³ð‘›ð‘° ð‘®ð‘°ð‘› ð‘ž
>>
>>·ð‘–ð‘±ð‘ð‘¾ð‘¯ ð‘‘ð‘§ð‘’ð‘•ð‘‘ ð‘¦ð‘¯ ð‘žð‘¦ð‘•
>>
>>>ð‘¥ð‘§ð‘•ð‘©ð‘¡?
>>>--
>>>·ð‘°ð‘”ð‘©ð‘¯ (Ethan)
>>
>>All I see are squares.
>>
>>Hugh B
>>
>>
>
>
> I see wierder things than squares... if I didn't know better I'd call
> it a garbage dump.
>
> --Star
Yes, I see! It's in your reply, having been scrambled by your software
and then sent along.
That text, which shows up as boxes or question marks to some and as
garbage to others is the official encoding standard for Shavian, which
is encoded in UTF-8 instead of US-ASCII or ISO-8859-1. Each character
takes four bytes, except for the namer dot, which takes two, and other
punctuation which takes one byte. That is why my name, which is five
characters long, including the namer dot, comes out as
·ð‘°ð‘”ð‘©ð‘¯ (18 characters) if not properly interpreted! If only
we could get all the computers to support the Unicode standard!
Since I'm using UTF-8, likely everybody whose computer doesn't
understand UTF-8 will have the garbage in this message doubled in
length...
--
·???????? - Ethan
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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-02-12 07:11:42 #
Subject: [shavian] Shavian T-Shirts?
Toggle Shavian
While Googling, I just happened to run across this
site: http://www.cafeshops.com/shavian
They seem to sell T-shirts and coffee mugs with
a Shavian alphabet message. Who runs this site?
As a side note, it seems that most Shaw Alphabet
sites that turn up on Google are dead as well as
most of the links on Bob Richardson's site. Where
have they all gone?
--Phillip Driscoll
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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-02-12 10:56:41 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] What role should Shavian play to the English-speaking Literate World?
Toggle Shavian
Ethan skribis:
>
> But the one thing which I think would do the most for Shavian is the
> role I think it should play - it should be taught to young children who
> haven't yet learned how to read! Perhaps if it were used in this way,
> these children would find reading to be an enjoyable activity, not
> fraught with spelling and pronuciation problems as the current system
> is. More children would learn to read, and would read better. There
> would be fewer problems with dislexia and other such reading disorders.
> Then the traditional orthography could be taught, after they have
> already gained the concept of reading in Shavian. It's a major jump to
> go from not reading at all to reading TO, but to go from nothing to
> Shavian and from Shavian to TO would be easier, I believe.
As I recall this was attempted back in the 1960s with the Initial
Teaching Alphabet. The ITA was a phonemic alphabet. Many
children's books were published in it. The idea was to use this
phonemic spelling to teach children how to read, then they
could be transitioned to TO.
As I recall, children did learn reading faster and better with ITA,
but the transitioning was a big problem. It turned out to be more
difficult to teach TO to those who had already learned a phonemic
system than to just start out with TO (which was why the ITA was
abandoned).
(As an aside, I doubt that Shavian would correct problems with
Dyslexia. There is less distinction between many Shavian letters
than Latin ones. I suspect Dyslexia would be just as much a
problem as it is now.)
--Ph. D.
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2004-02-12 12:42:53 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian T-Shirts?
Toggle Shavian
awesome! wish they had more but, hey, that's great.. Spelling reform
now! I love it. I didn't know there was a serif version of shavian...
hmmm....
Alright, fellow disciples of Shaw, we need to do something to pick up
the shavian sites... use free hosted sites, or perhaps the whole crew
should collaborate on one site?
Just a thought,
Write on, and be joyous
--Star, in snowy TN
--- "Ph. D." <phild@...> wrote:
> While Googling, I just happened to run across this
> site: http://www.cafeshops.com/shavian
>
> They seem to sell T-shirts and coffee mugs with
> a Shavian alphabet message. Who runs this site?
>
> As a side note, it seems that most Shaw Alphabet
> sites that turn up on Google are dead as well as
> most of the links on Bob Richardson's site. Where
> have they all gone?
>
> --Phillip Driscoll
>
>
=====
Why is it always me and the burning death?
__________________________________
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From: Scott Harrison
Date: 2004-02-12 21:37:20 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian T-Shirts?
Toggle Shavian
On Thursday, Feb 12, 2004, at 07:42 US/Eastern, Star Raven wrote:
>
> Alright, fellow disciples of Shaw, we need to do something to pick up
> the shavian sites... use free hosted sites, or perhaps the whole crew
> should collaborate on one site?
>
>
I have already volunteered to have shavian.org run from my
mithrandir.com server. Perhaps we can devise a strategy where the
community can use that site. However, this would need coordination
with Philip Newton as shavian.org is his domain. Also, as far as I
know, he has not actually changed the location of shavian.org to run
from my server.
If others are interested in using my machine to host a web site I may
be able to do that as well. However, not all of you since my ISP will
probably kill me and charge me lots of money. Basically if you are
interested you will need to be able to use ssh to access my server
since I do not let most forms of communication into my machine. Just
drop me a line and we can discuss things.
--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86
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From: Ph. D.
Date: 2004-02-12 23:32:25 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian T-Shirts?
Toggle Shavian
Star Raven skribis:
>
> awesome! wish they had more but, hey, that's great.. Spelling reform
> now! I love it. I didn't know there was a serif version of shavian...
> hmmm....
It appears to be my font called "Shaw Roman." But who
created these items? Someone on this list?
--Phillip Driscoll
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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-02-13 18:00:32 #
Subject: [shavian] Re: What role should Shavian play to the English-speaking Literate World?
Toggle Shavian
Hi Philip
You might want to check the internet on your assumptions about
dyslexia.
I have seen a couple articles in the last few months that show from
statistical evidence, that Dyslexia is much less of a problem in
countries where the spelling is consistenly phonemic.
It is the extra mental processing that complicated spelling rules
invoke, rather than funny looking letters which are hard to
distinguish, which accentuates a Dylexic persons reading
difficulties.
The Hebrew Alphabet is the king of similar looking characters, but
does not have same level of difficulty attributed to ENglish
spelling.
Regards, Paul V.
--- In shavian@..., "Ph. D." <phild@a...> wrote:
> Ethan skribis:
> >
> > But the one thing which I think would do the most for Shavian is
the
> > role I think it should play - it should be taught to young
children who
> > haven't yet learned how to read! Perhaps if it were used in
this way,
> > these children would find reading to be an enjoyable activity,
not
> > fraught with spelling and pronuciation problems as the current
system
> > is. More children would learn to read, and would read better.
There
> > would be fewer problems with dislexia and other such reading
disorders.
> > Then the traditional orthography could be taught, after they
have
> > already gained the concept of reading in Shavian. It's a major
jump to
> > go from not reading at all to reading TO, but to go from nothing
to
> > Shavian and from Shavian to TO would be easier, I believe.
>
>
> As I recall this was attempted back in the 1960s with the Initial
> Teaching Alphabet. The ITA was a phonemic alphabet. Many
> children's books were published in it. The idea was to use this
> phonemic spelling to teach children how to read, then they
> could be transitioned to TO.
>
> As I recall, children did learn reading faster and better with
ITA,
> but the transitioning was a big problem. It turned out to be more
> difficult to teach TO to those who had already learned a phonemic
> system than to just start out with TO (which was why the ITA was
> abandoned).
>
> (As an aside, I doubt that Shavian would correct problems with
> Dyslexia. There is less distinction between many Shavian letters
> than Latin ones. I suspect Dyslexia would be just as much a
> problem as it is now.)
>
> --Ph. D.
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From: paul vandenbrink
Date: 2004-02-16 14:55:57 #
Subject: [shavian] What role should Shavian play to the English-speaking Literate World?
Toggle Shavian
Obviously, if you are very literate in the Roman Alphabet, going
back to Kindergarden and staarting over can seem to be a chore.
I suspect, the best strategy would be best to focus on pre-teens and
early teenagers up to about 16. We could focus on the Shaw Alphabets
secretive/mysterious aspects. Have your own personal and confidental
Diary.
We should have Young persons Shaw Chat room and/or bulletin board.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I just found another Shaw page at
http://www.geocities.com/arago2188/
Anybody in the group know who it belongs too?
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