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Hi Paul,

Congratulations, on your Revised Shaw Abjad making it to www.omniglot.com <http://www.omniglot.com> . I'll do my best to learn it, like I am doing with Quikscript.

best of regards,

Carl

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What's this "Abjad"? What does it mean, and why does it not appear anywhere on www.shawalphabet.com <http://www.shawalphabet.com> ?

P.S. Paul I still think it shouldn't say "Shaw Alphabet has 53 letters" - the Shaw Alphabet has 48. The *revised* version has 53 and maybe it would help if that were pointed out?

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: carl easton <mailto:shavintel16@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:16 PM
Subject: [shavian] Revised Shaw Abjad

Hi Paul,

Congratulations, on your Revised Shaw Abjad making it to www.omniglot.com <http://www.omniglot.com> . I'll do my best to learn it, like I am doing with Quikscript.

best of regards,

Carl


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan" <ethanl@...>

> carl easton wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > That's okay. Originally, Kingley Read in Androcles and the Lion,
> > mentioned to use the spellings from that volume when the time came to
> > formalized Shavian spelling. Which is as you have indicated is the
> > Northern England accent.
> >
> > So, I assume to derive this Northern England accent from a dictionary,
> > one might use the Oxford dictionary. However, due there also being
> > Shavian Ethusiasts around the World. An American Spelling is needed for
> > us western hemisphere people.

I really don't think this is so much of a big thing. Obviously there are
words like "forest [forist/fPist]", "mum/mom", "simultaneous
[simaltEnIas/sFmaltEnIas]", "defence/defense [difens/dIfens], "grass
[grys/grAs]" etc that will be spelt differently but those aren't too
numerous. Everything else should end up the same no matter which side of the
atlantic it's written on.

> > regards,
> >
> > Carl

Hugh B




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--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...> wrote:
> What's this "Abjad"? What does it mean, and why does it not appear anywhere on
www.shawalphabet.com?


An abjad is like an alphabet, but it doesn't explicitly indicate vowels with their own
letters. They may use place holders or diacritics, but not separate vowel letters.

Of course, some abjads are also written as alphabets by adding extra letters.

Some good examples of abjads are Hebrew and Arabic. Tolkien's tengwar and sarati
(elvish scripts) are, as well.




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Damn this...

It looks like Windows XP's character map application doesn't support
supplementary Unicode characters. Which means I can't view the Shavian
characters contained in 'Andagii'.

I'm going to have to find another one that does - anyone have any
suggestions?

Thanks
Hugh B




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Took a look at the site and was very confused... That's not the shaw I
know and love... 48 letters, plus /hw/ (on occasion) that's what I'm
familliar with. But I don't even recognise the squiggles on
shaw-alphabet.com.... did I miss something?

--Star

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> What's this "Abjad"? What does it mean, and why does it not appear
> anywhere on www.shawalphabet.com?
>
> P.S. Paul I still think it shouldn't say "Shaw Alphabet has 53
> letters" - the Shaw Alphabet has 48. The *revised* version has 53 and
> maybe it would help if that were pointed out?
>
> Hugh B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: carl easton
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:16 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Revised Shaw Abjad
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Congratulations, on your Revised Shaw Abjad making it to
> www.omniglot.com . I'll do my best to learn it, like I am doing with
> Quikscript.
>
> best of regards,
>
> Carl
>
>
>
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Further confusion on my part... this does not actually answer the
question, IMHO. And to me it is just confusing shaw with squiggles...
and complicated lines... the reason I was drawn to shavian to begin
with was it's simplicity, and the fact that, no matter how bad my
handwriting gets sometimes, I can still tell letters apart.

--Star

--- Joe <allegrox_2000@...> wrote:
> --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
> wrote:
> > What's this "Abjad"? What does it mean, and why does it not appear
> anywhere on
> www.shawalphabet.com?
>
>
> An abjad is like an alphabet, but it doesn't explicitly indicate
> vowels with their own
> letters. They may use place holders or diacritics, but not separate
> vowel letters.
>
> Of course, some abjads are also written as alphabets by adding extra
> letters.
>
> Some good examples of abjads are Hebrew and Arabic. Tolkien's
> tengwar and sarati
> (elvish scripts) are, as well.
>
>


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On Apr 2, 2004, at 08:29, Star Raven wrote:

> Took a look at the site and was very confused... That's not the shaw I
> know and love... 48 letters, plus /hw/ (on occasion) that's what I'm
> familliar with. But I don't even recognise the squiggles on
> shaw-alphabet.com.... did I miss something?
>
The website is very confusing because it seems to be promoting an
alphabet calling it the Shaw (Shavian) alphabet. The names of the
letters are wrong, as well as having letters that are not in Shavian.
It would be much better if this alphabet were labeled as a modification
or variation of the Shavian alphabet since people not familiar with
Shavian can become quite confused.

--
Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86




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Hi Carl

Don't forget India, Pakistan and Hong Kong. Altogether they have more
Second Lnguage English Speakers than America, and their accent is
closer to the British Accent.
English is a world language. The majority of countries in the world
accept English as their preferred second language.

Regards, Paul V.
______________attached________________________

--- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> carl easton wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > That's okay. Originally, Kingley Read in Androcles and the Lion,
> > mentioned to use the spellings from that volume when the time
came to
> > formalized Shavian spelling. Which is as you have indicated is
the
> > Northern England accent.
> >
> > So, I assume to derive this Northern England accent from a
dictionary,
> > one might use the Oxford dictionary. However, due there also
being
> > Shavian Ethusiasts around the World. An American Spelling is
needed for
> > us western hemisphere people.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Carl
>
>
> According to the numbers found at
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lan_eng_spe
>
> Native English speakers per country, 1984 estimates -
> UK: 55 million
> US: 210 million
>
> I think that it is important to consider where the people are, and
how
> they speak when deciding where to standardize. If you go by the
> numbers, standard American English should be given preference.
Consider
> also that most Canadians speak almost the same as standard American
English.
>
> That said, it would scarcely be fair to force the American standard
on
> people who find it strange, so I think it would be good to have at
least
> a standard for British English as well, so everybody can be as
> comfortable as possible. But would either standard be acceptible
for
> people in, say, Australia, New Zeeland, or South Africa?
>
> --
> ·ð?˜Â°Ã°Ââ€˜â€Ã°Ââ€˜Â©Ã°Ââ€˜Â?- Ethan



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Hi Scott

Sorry for all the confusion.
Frankly, I was surprised to find the Revised Shaw Abjad on the
Omniglot Web-page so quickly.
I really do have to thank Simon Ager of Brighton, England for his
understanding of my Revision, and his acting so quickly to post it
and make it available on-line.
The Revision was original a small enhancement to Shavian to allow the
writer to substitute Vowel variables or placeholders, in cases where
there were multiple pronunciations of the same word in English due to
Accent variation.

I only found out through perusal of Simon Ager's site, that Alphabets
which minimize or eliminate the writing of Vowels are called Abjads
instead of Alphabets, so I submitted it under that category.

As for my website www.shawalphabet.com, it is going through some
changes and some of the documentation still reflects an earlier
revision, where I did not necessarily indicate all of the crucial
vowel letters. I will change all references from Alphabet to Abjad,
when I get the opportunty. If you click on forum inside the Portal
page you will see an uptodate description of what is the Revise Shaw
Alphabet.

In English, words and syllables beginning or ending in a vowel sound
aare crucial and need to be indicated for easy recognition of the
word. It is the embedded vowel in the middle of a word which are
extraneous to the quick recognition of the word and can be indicated
with a Vowel marker or placeholder.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. I still use the regular original Shaw Alphabet as well as my own
Revision, and hope you accept my participation in the group as
someone who puts great value on the unparalleled simplicity, logical
consistency and art of the Shaw Alphabet.

________________attached____________________________________



--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott@m...> wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2004, at 08:29, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > Took a look at the site and was very confused... That's not the
shaw I
> > know and love... 48 letters, plus /hw/ (on occasion) that's what
I'm
> > familliar with. But I don't even recognise the squiggles on
> > shaw-alphabet.com.... did I miss something?
> >
> The website is very confusing because it seems to be
promoting an
> alphabet calling it the Shaw (Shavian) alphabet. The names of the
> letters are wrong, as well as having letters that are not in
Shavian.
> It would be much better if this alphabet were labeled as a
modification
> or variation of the Shavian alphabet since people not familiar with
> Shavian can become quite confused.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison PGP Key ID: 0x0f0b5b86




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