In message <c52lsa+lqbt@eGroups.com>, paul vandenbrink
<pvandenbrink@...> writes
>Hi John
>
>We are not talking about cultural imperialism in Shavian
>script here. We are simply trying to give some non-native speaker a
>hand-up. To write Shavian, you need to know how to say it in English.
>If you don't know the exact pronunciation in your accent group then
>you look it up in the Dictionary and you will find a nice safe
>neutral pronunciation.
>
>I would never suggest that anyone writing a note check all the words
>first in the dictionary.
>That negates the main benefit of the Shavian Alphabet.
>You just write it how it sounds.
>Shaw is a shortcut to literacy.
>
>Regards, Paul V.
>
>P.S. AHD is a good dictionary, but no one said it is the be all and
>end all.
>P.P.S. Oh, and we could never be a regulating body. We have too many
>dissenting opinions.
Hi Paul,
I agree that a quick note should be written as anyone feels as long as
it is understandable to the person expected to read it. I used to teach
and getting people to record information that I could read (or sometimes
that they could read back to me) was always a fun thing to work on.
I have to say that I feel that picking a single dictionary is limiting -
limiting to one language user group. There are I feel about four broad
categories of accent in the USA and an awful lot more in the UK - my
specific dialect / accent is a Yorkshire one with a close affinity to
the nearby Lancastrian dialects / accents and can thus be distinguished
clearly from accents / dialects within 20 km.
I often think of the song - a Harry Connick Junior one, I think, called
"Let's call the whole thing off"
With in OT the fabulous text:
You say "either" and I say "either"
You say "neither" I say "neither"
"either" "either", "neither" "neither"
Let's call the whole thing off
Which unless you knew the song is nonsensical and in Shavian would be
explicit.
I think that the best forms of cultural imperialism are those that are
not recognized as such. I had a wonderful experience of this recently
when at a club I belong to there was a discussion about retaining grace
and the loyal toast at the club dinners. One person, talking to me, said
"But the club has a history of being non-political and non-religious so
that is why I am for keeping the grace and loyal toast" - He didn't see
the illogical nature of his statement because to him having a religious
grace was not religious and having a loyal toast to the Queen was not
political.
So the fact that I feel that to choose the American Heritage Dictionary
is a manifestation of cultural imperialism, as would any dictionary
incidentally, is not addressed by denying it.
I don't doubt that the American Heritage Dictionary is a good
dictionary. It is not it that I query but the practice of picking one
dictionary that concerns me.
Maybe I am very biased by my own experience but my experience is that to
open my mouth and utter words is to be political - at least to position
me in the world of English speakers. In the US, I either have a quaint
British accent or more often with people in shops a slightly bizarre
incomprehensible accent.
Speakers of various forms of British English can understand several
accents (and dialects) including generally T.V. American (I call it that
as not everyone speaks it in the US and I certainly learnt it from the
T.V.) I do not pretend to speak successfully with these accents but I do
understand them.
So my vote is for no dictionary as a standard - it should be our own
pronunciations that count.
John Warner
--
John Warner
john.warner@...
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