Hi John
It appears that we are in close enough agreement, so as to consider
your concern to be more in the style than in the substance.
I don't believe one dictionary will suffice for all English speakers,
although it might suffice for our small group. As for the extent of
the speech variations or ranges of accents, that the Shaw Alphabet
must encompass, I beleive that can be minimzed. Most educated or
literate speakers of English, have a local standard accent in their
repertoire.
Hopefully, they would make use of that local standard, when
communicating internationally.
Regards, Paul V.
_________attached________________________________
--- In shavian@..., John Warner <john.warner@l...> wrote:
> In message <c52lsa+lqbt@e...>, paul vandenbrink
> <pvandenbrink@s...> writes
> >Hi John
> >
> >We are not talking about cultural imperialism in Shavian
> >script here. We are simply trying to give some non-native speaker a
> >hand-up. To write Shavian, you need to know how to say it in
English.
> >If you don't know the exact pronunciation in your accent group then
> >you look it up in the Dictionary and you will find a nice safe
> >neutral pronunciation.
> >
> >I would never suggest that anyone writing a note check all the
words
> >first in the dictionary.
> >That negates the main benefit of the Shavian Alphabet.
> >You just write it how it sounds.
> >Shaw is a shortcut to literacy.
> >
> >Regards, Paul V.
> >
> >P.S. AHD is a good dictionary, but no one said it is the be all and
> >end all.
> >P.P.S. Oh, and we could never be a regulating body. We have too
many
> >dissenting opinions.
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I agree that a quick note should be written as anyone feels as long
as
> it is understandable to the person expected to read it. I used to
teach
> and getting people to record information that I could read (or
sometimes
> that they could read back to me) was always a fun thing to work on.
>
> I have to say that I feel that picking a single dictionary is
limiting -
> limiting to one language user group. There are I feel about four
broad
> categories of accent in the USA and an awful lot more in the UK -
my
> specific dialect / accent is a Yorkshire one with a close affinity
to
> the nearby Lancastrian dialects / accents and can thus be
distinguished
> clearly from accents / dialects within 20 km.
>
> I often think of the song - a Harry Connick Junior one, I think,
called
> "Let's call the whole thing off"
>
> With in OT the fabulous text:
> You say "either" and I say "either"
> You say "neither" I say "neither"
> "either" "either", "neither" "neither"
> Let's call the whole thing off
>
> Which unless you knew the song is nonsensical and in Shavian would
be
> explicit.
>
> I think that the best forms of cultural imperialism are those that
are
> not recognized as such. I had a wonderful experience of this
recently
> when at a club I belong to there was a discussion about retaining
grace
> and the loyal toast at the club dinners. One person, talking to me,
said
> "But the club has a history of being non-political and non-
religious so
> that is why I am for keeping the grace and loyal toast" - He didn't
see
> the illogical nature of his statement because to him having a
religious
> grace was not religious and having a loyal toast to the Queen was
not
> political.
>
> So the fact that I feel that to choose the American Heritage
Dictionary
> is a manifestation of cultural imperialism, as would any dictionary
> incidentally, is not addressed by denying it.
>
> I don't doubt that the American Heritage Dictionary is a good
> dictionary. It is not it that I query but the practice of picking
one
> dictionary that concerns me.
>
> Maybe I am very biased by my own experience but my experience is
that to
> open my mouth and utter words is to be political - at least to
position
> me in the world of English speakers. In the US, I either have a
quaint
> British accent or more often with people in shops a slightly
bizarre
> incomprehensible accent.
>
> Speakers of various forms of British English can understand several
> accents (and dialects) including generally T.V. American (I call it
that
> as not everyone speaks it in the US and I certainly learnt it from
the
> T.V.) I do not pretend to speak successfully with these accents but
I do
> understand them.
>
> So my vote is for no dictionary as a standard - it should be our
own
> pronunciations that count.
>
> John Warner
> --
> John Warner
>
> john.warner@l...
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