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I've lived my entire life in Michigan (USA). I've always said "vee-HE-ment-lee" (where "he" is the same as in "hemp").

--Phillip Driscoll

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: [shavian] Quick question...

How does everyone here pronounce the word 'vehemently'?

Hugh


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This seems to be the way most people in the Midwest pronounce it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Shannon <reboot@... <mailto:reboot@...> >
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> <shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> >
Date: Saturday, December 09, 2000 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Quick question...


FWIW: I guess I just use the barest "hint" of an "h" between the two e's, but I try not to let it disappear completely. I put the em-FAS-is on the first syl-AH-ble. :) --gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: [shavian] Quick question...

How does everyone here pronounce the word 'vehemently'?

Hugh




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I've never been sure of how to pronounce it, and I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit it, but I say, "va-hI-mntlI"
(va-hI-mntlI)
---
Shalom v'Tovah,
Jon Zuck
Web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

It is more important to love much than to think much.
Always do that which most impels you to love.
--St. Teresa of Avila

----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip Driscoll <mailto:phild@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Quick question...


I've lived my entire life in Michigan (USA). I've always said "vee-HE-ment-lee" (where "he" is the same as in "hemp").

--Phillip Driscoll

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: [shavian] Quick question...

How does everyone here pronounce the word 'vehemently'?

Hugh



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Interesting. FWIW: I can honestly say I've never heard it pronounced that way.


----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip Driscoll <mailto:phild@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Quick question...

This seems to be the way most people in the Midwest pronounce it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Shannon <reboot@... <mailto:reboot@...> >
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> <shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> >
Date: Saturday, December 09, 2000 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Quick question...


FWIW: I guess I just use the barest "hint" of an "h" between the two e's, but I try not to let it disappear completely. I put the em-FAS-is on the first syl-AH-ble. :) --gary

----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:mixsynth@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:59 AM
Subject: [shavian] Quick question...

How does everyone here pronounce the word 'vehemently'?

Hugh





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It's Dan again, and once more I'm in favor of a standardization that evolves over time, rather than one that is imposed now by us few people on the Shavian list. As a person who develops writing systems for previously unwritten languages, I have found that a standard develops over time, as much material is written and read.
I encourage people who use the Shaw/Read alphabet to do a great deal of reading and writing in that alphabet, so that such a system may develop. If this system of spelling is to be a practical alternative to the present chaotic orthography for English, it must be used. Only then will we discover what features of the Shaw/Read system prevent people who use it from understanding one another. It is misunderstanding that causes spellings to shift to a standard that all choose to use. Again, standards develop over time; they are not usually imposed from above.
Anyone who wishes to put the script into practice may do so by corresponding with me. My e-mail address is:
twojbrat@...
My postal address is: Rev. Dr. Daniel Szczurek, PhD, ThD
7425 Ruby Drive, SW, #D-12
Lakewood, WA 98498-5062
USA
I am especially interested in exchanging postcards. For 20 cents a pop, you can practice Shavian and make it a living system with the possibility of evolving. I do not believe that a standard can be imposed from above, even by the wonderful "Androcles." Daily use with other people will allow a standard to develop over time.
Sincerely, Dr. Daniel Szczurek, PhD, ThD
Professor of Linguistics and Anthropology (retired)

----------
From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Suggestions for spelling... (again)
Date: Dec Sun, 2000, 17:17




----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Zuck <mailto:frimmin@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 10:14 PM
Subject: [shavian] Re: Suggestions for spelling... (again)

AAAAAAgh! Hugh, we've switched sides completely! I was the one who (regretfully) started the whole If/Eat mess, but I'm favoring If now. Not because of phonemics, but because of Read's detailed explanations in the Quickscript Manual as to why he felt that standardization was beneficial, especially in the most common word endings and prefixes. Several times he mentions that the suggested standard spellings do not imply a specific pronunciation--so I can live with that. In Post #765, "Some Issues," I recapitulated the last published remarks by the alphabets' creator as to suggested spellings. Read felt that the unstressed syllables in common word endings and beginnings were the most problematical for deciding which letters to use. Get those out of the way, and English speakers all over the world write Shaw with only an average of only two letters difference out of every hundred. It made me feel that an agreement on the vague distinc tions between these vowels isn't a bad price to pay!
[snip the transliterations]


Hehe, it does seem like that doesn't it! :) But rest assured I didn't change my stance to get on your nerves. I was really thinking about what represented the speech of the majority of English-speakers, including myself. I still strongly believe that standardization (to a certain degree) is inevitable in Shavian spelling, and I completely agree with all the comments that you quoted from the QS manual. But now I cannot see why 'if' should be favored instead of 'eat'. My reasoning in the past has been to do with stress, but I no longer believe it to be the case - I realized that treating letters like that makes the alphabet over-complicated and, in many cases, ambiguous. I've been trying to justify to myself in logical, human terms why I should still use 'if' instead. But I couldn't find one damned good reason other than that Androcles does it. Furthermore, what came to me is that Androcles uses Northern English, which does in fact use 'if' instead of 'eat'. Howev er, it is stated somewhere in Androcles that Northern English is only the standard chosen for that particular transliteration, so there is no indication that everyone should use Northern English as a standard spelling system anywhere else. I don't speak Northern English - neither does anyone in this group, I imagine. So really, now I've really thought about it, I think the standard spelling should default to 'eat' instead, as that is what the majority of English Speakers (plus myself) in the world really use.

Hugh

hIhI, it duz sIm lFk HAt duzant it! :) but rest aSPd F didant cEnJ mF styns t get on jP nxvz. F woz rIalI TiNkiN abQt wot reprazentid H spIc v H maJoratI v /iNgliS-spIkDz, inklMdiN mFself. F stil stroNlI bilIv HAt stAndDdFzESan (t a sxtan ikstent) iz inevitabal in /SEvIan speliN, n F kamplItlI agrI wiH Yl H koments HAt V kwOtid from H /kwikskript mAnVal. but nQ F kAnot sI wF 'i' SUd bI fEvDd insted v 'I'. mF rIzaniN in H pyst hAz bIn t dM wiH stres, but F nO loNgD bilIv it t bI H kEs - F rIalFzd HAt trItiN letDz lFk HAt mEks H Alfabet OvD-komplikEtid n, in menI kEsiz, AmbigVas. F'v bIn trFiN t JustifF t mFself in loJikal, hVman txmz wF F SUd stil Vz 'i' insted. but F kUdant fFnd wun dAmd gUd rIzan uHD HAn HAt /AndraklIz duz it. fxHDmP, wot kEm t mI iz HAt /AndraklIz Vziz /nPHDn /iNgliS, wic duz in fAkt Vz 'i' insted v 'I'. hQevD, it iz stEtid sumwX in /AndraklIz HAt /nPHDn /iNgliS iz OnlI H stAndDd cOzan fP HAt pDtikVlD trAnzlitDESan, sO HX iz nO indikESan HAt evrIwun SUd Vz /nPHDn /iNgliS Az a stAndDd speliN sistam enIwX els. F dOnt spIk /nPHDn /iNgliS - nFHD duz enIwun in His grMp, F imAJin. sO rIalI, nQ F'v rIalI TYt abQt it, F TiNk H stAndDd speliN SUd difolt t 'I' insted, Az HAt iz wot H maJoritI v /iNgliS spIkDz (plus mFself) in H wxld rIalI Vz.

/hV

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I do not believe that a standard can be imposed from above, even by the wonderful "Androcles." Daily use with other people will allow a standard to develop over time.

igzAktlI wot F TiNk. sO let's Vz it! agen. wI kAn stil diskus H Alfabet n fanetiks n stuf, but in His skript insted. evrIwun hC nOz it, evrIwun hC lFks it, sO wF dM wI Yl insist on rivxtiN t /lAtin skript wen TiNz get hItid? let's kIp it lFk His!

/hV

so wat kFnd v /INgliS waz i in H mMvI "/bilI /elWt?"
/nPHDn P /suHDn? HX wD (meni) tFmz in i wen F wiSt fP subtFtlz!

so wat kFnd v /INgliS waz i in H mMvI "/bilI /elWt?"
/nPHDn P /suHDn? HX wD (meni) tFmz in i wen F wiSt fP subtFtlz!
---
SylYm v'tYvy!
web URL: http://surf.to/frimmin

i z mP impPtant t lav mac HAn t HiNk mac.
YlsEz dM HAt wic mOst impelz V tM lav.
--/st. /tDrIsa v /yvIla

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? ??? ??? ? ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ? ???, ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????
·????

so wat kFnd v /INgliS waz i in H mMvI "/bilI /elWt?"
/nPHDn P /suHDn? HX wD (meni) tFmz in i wen F wiSt fP subtFtlz!

hIhI... it's not kwFt Az simpal Az HAt. `suHDn' n `nPHDn' R verI brYd kAtagDIz. H pIpal in /bilI /elIat spIk in a `/duram' (Durham) dFalekt, wic iz sumwot similD t `/JPdI' (H dFalekt from /nVkysal /apon /tFn).

Ivan pIpal from mOst v /iNgland kAnot undDstAnd H /JPdI dFalekt - sumtFmz wI nId subtFtalz! :)

/hV

it Okxd t mI t wundx if H kopIrFt hOldxz v /andrOklIz, nQ HAt it's lYN Qt v print, mFt bI Open t H FdW v pUtiN H /SEvIen tekst up on H intxnet, P At lIst alQiN sumwun els t pOst H tekst.

in an unrIlEtid lFn v TYt, wut dO V supOz mFt bI dun t inkrIs publik awXnes v /SEvIen? F dOn't prOpOz HAt wI Yl gO dP t dP proselitFziN, but F'm SMr HX R litl wEz in wic wI kAn "ekspOz" uHxz t it unobtrMsivlI. lFk haNiN a nFs pIs v /SEvIen kaligrAfI on H Yfis wYl, P bIiN sIn rIdiN a /SEvIen bUk on H bus to wxk. (grAntid HX'z a sevC SpteJ v /SEvEin bUks t bI hAd, but F'm tqiN wiT H FdW v rIvFviN H bUkbFndiN skilz F pikt up in skMl n mEkiN a kumpVtx-printid, hAnd-bQmd limitid ediSun v wun kopI v sum smYl bUk fP mF On amVzment. wiT a dIsent printX prOdMsiN a fV duzin stEpl-bQnd bUklets tO giv t frendz wUd bI cFld's plE. :-)

insidentlI, in prMfrIdiN H teksts F'v trAnslEtid wiT mF trAnslESun prOgrAm F'v fQnd n kPektid nMmxus tFpOz n speliN Xxz in H glYsxI, wic nQ kuntEnz abQt 5,000 wxdz. E wil bI pOstiN H kPektid trAnslESunz Az tFm alQz.

--gXI

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