Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

> On 1/12/06, Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> > > > 271.cannot ? kAnyt kAnot
> >
> > kanot.
>
> I know this as "kAnot". I suppose it depends on whether you stress the
> first or the second syllable. (dictionary.com / AHD appears to allow
> both variants.)

Yes, I meant to add "Also:" before that.

Hugh B

Hi Folks,

Sorry I left for a awhile. But now I'm back. I realized just how must
Shavian is my favorite Alternate Alphabet for English. It's fun and
relaxing to write with Shavian. It truly is one of my most beloved
passions and hobbies. So, now that "Carl's back!" I'm ready to discuss
anything Shavian.

Best of Regards,

Carl

Hi Folks,

I'm so relieve see that www.omniglot.com has corrected their errors on
the abbreviations and the tranliteration of the First Article of Human
rights. Did anyone else notice these corrections.

Best of Regards,

Carl

Hi Carl
It is certainly acceptable, now.
I'd spell 4 words differently myself, but I am going by my own
pronunciation. The Ugly Canadian strikes again.
In fact in my last recomendation (4), I would differ with the
authorative (www.dictionary.com) {G-d forbid)
1. dignity -> dignatI instead of dignitI
2. with -> wiT instead of wiH
3. spirit -> spCat instead of spirit
4. conscience - kynSins instead of konSans
consciousness would be kynSisnes, for example.
I really have a problem putting the Schwa sound in the middle of CVC
syllable, even if it is unstressed. I feel that this minimal vowel
sound can not carry the load.
Although, I am certain some people hear it as "kanSasnas".
Opinions?
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. Nice to see you back, Carl
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Carl G. Easton"
<shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> I'm so relieve see that www.omniglot.com has corrected their errors
on
> the abbreviations and the tranliteration of the First Article of
Human
> rights. Did anyone else notice these corrections.

On 1/12/06, paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink11@...> wrote:
> I really have a problem putting the Schwa sound in the middle of CVC
> syllable, even if it is unstressed.

I don't :)

> Although, I am certain some people hear it as "kanSasnas".

I could go with "konSasnas".

Having only shwas in a multi-syllable word seems weird, though. So
since I'd stress the first syllable, I'd put the "full" vowel sound
there, which is the hot-cot sound for me.
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

Hi Philip
Thanks for all your efforts to expand the use of that must ubiquitous
of sounds the Schwa (Much Ado and all that). As for myself, I have to
be Drunk and almost losing consciousness, before I would say it
as "kanSasnas". And of course I would never remember it the morning
after.

When I am speaking lucidly, I would only used the Schwa sound as
counterpoint to the more distinctly pronounced syllables in a word.
It produces a nice pattern of alternation, that ensures at least a
modicum of understanding by anyone foolish enough to listen.
Can you think of any standalone words, that are one syllable and end in
a Schwa? (tsk-tsk)

What is your preferred pronunciation of consciousness, in Shavian
spelling of course? "konSasnas"?

Regards, Paul V.
___________attached________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>
wrote:
Paul said he really had a problem putting the Schwa sound in the middle
of CVC syllable, even if it is unstressed.
>
> I don't :)
>
> > Although, I am certain some people hear it as "kanSasnas".
>
> I could go with "konSasnas".
>
> Having only shwas in a multi-syllable word seems weird, though. So
> since I'd stress the first syllable, I'd put the "full" vowel sound
> there, which is the hot-cot sound for me.

Hi Hugh
I think we are in the desemination and teaching business.
We don't have enough of base of Shavians to sustain our selves with
out reaching out to the unlettered. If we only try an propagate
Shavian among the over-educated, we are doomed to failure.
Shavian is different. It has a lot of benefits and I think it is the
wave of the future, but we have to provide the basics here.
Not send them off to another site (WWW.DICTIONARY.COM) and expect
them to figure out the Shavian equivalents of the Heritage Phonetic
Key. I would tell someone to do that for less common words, which he
might not know how to pronounce. It works but it's more of an
advanced technique that I would not expect a new learner to have the
patience for.
Full Standardization will have to come later, when we have achieved a
large growing student community.
I think listing the common pronunciations is a good first step.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I will incorporate your various pronunciations in the iist.
Thanks.
i.e. of,bikYz.
______________________attached________________________
> I would say, Shavian is perfectly accessible to anyone - one search
for
> "shavian" on Google, and you're faced with plenty of websites with
the
> character descriptions and example texts.
>
> If we're in the business of standardisation, and we accept that the
AHD
> provides optimal "general" spellings, we should base our common
word lists
> on it.

Hi Philip
I added a couple more variations to lines
301, 319, 321, 323, 324, 334, 336, 343, 356, 369, 383, 391, 399
Have you ever heard someone say off=ten with the t-sound? (328)
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. Sorry, I just put the line numbers in now.
Should of been earlier. All these duplications (400. With) not good.
P.P.S. 371, I disagree with your using apostrophes (I'm) to represent
contractions in the spelling. The only way they make any
sense is if we look at the original Roman Spelling.
Everything in Shavian should be consistent with Shavian itself.
It has to be internally consistent.
I like using Apostrophes to indicate a standalone vowel.
(i.e. O'clock (O'klyk), Hawai'i (/huwF'I), of'en (yf'en) )
P.P.P.S I say "hC" for here and "hID" for hear. They are distinct
to me. Do you hear them as Homonyms? Curious.
______________attached___________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton
<philip.newton@g...> wrote:
301. > rather ? rAHD / ryHD
302. > My mF
303. > thou HQ
304. > best best
305. > p*
306. > since sins
307. > felt felt
308. > word wxd
309. > Lord lPd
310. > used ? Vzd / Vst
311. > dans*
312. > light lFt
313. > Oh O
314. > next nekst
315. > began ? bigAn / bagAn
316. > less les
317. > present ? prezant / prizent / prazent
318. > large lRJ
319. > water ? wytR / wYtD
320. > den* den
321. > within ? wiTin wiHin
322. > door dP
323. > poor ? pP / pUD / pMD
324. > certain ? sx'un / sxtan / sxtin / sxten
325. > works wxks
326. > pas*
327. > sent sent
328. > often ? yf'en / ofan / ofin ( oftan / oftin )
329. > tt*
330. > stood stUd
331. > power pQD
332. > Now nQ
333. > room rMm
334. > half ? haf / hyf
335. > public publik
336. > themselves ? Hemsalvz / Hemselvz
337. > morning mPniN
338. > Sir sx
339. > myself mFself
340. > keep kIp
341. > money munI
342. > mother muHD
343. > her ? hD / hx
344. > b*
345. > une*
346. > By bF
347. > thy HF
348. > hundred hundrid / hundrad
349. > ets*
350. > je*
351. > kind kFnd
352. > order PdD
353. > war wP
354. > means mInz
355. > form fPm
356. > pour ? pP / pUD
357. > How hQ
358. > round rQnd
359. > received risIvd / rasIvd
360. > voice vqs
361. > believe bilIv / balIv
362. > y*
363. > white wFt
364. > Miss mis
365. > anything enITiN
366. > near nC
367. > others uHDz
368. > thus Hus
369. > passed ? pAst / pyst
370. > matter mAtD
371. > I'm Fm / F'm
372. > Well wel
373. > year jC
374. > read rId / red
375. > true trM
376. > All Yl
377. > you V
378. > point pqnt
379. > herself ? hDself / hxself
380. > Of*
381. > friend frend
382. > state stEt
383. > person ? pDsun / pxsan
384. > wife wFf
385. > already YlredI
386. > One wun
387. > above abuv
388. > high hF
389. > met met
390. > says sez
391. > together ? tageHD / tUgeHD
392. > Why wF
393. > perhaps pxhAps / pDhAps
394. > death deT
395. > dear dC
396. > fact fAkt
397. > least lIst
398. > case kEs
399. > hear ? hID / hC
400. > With*

On 1/13/06, paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink11@...> wrote:
> Can you think of any standalone words, that are one syllable and end in
> a Schwa? (tsk-tsk)

End in a shwa? I can't think of one. (Well, except for "a" itself.)

However, I think that quite a few short words get their vowel reduced
to shwa in normal speech -- for example, "I can do it" is {F kan dM
it} in normal speech, I'd say, though it's {F kAn dM it} when you want
to emphasise it, or when you're speaking more carefully.

> What is your preferred pronunciation of consciousness, in Shavian
> spelling of course? "konSasnas"?

{konSasnas} or {konSasnis}, I think.
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>

I am probably sharing information that everyone already knows, but I
just got my own original 1962 Shaw Alphabet Edition of Androcles in
the mail today. I had one years ago when I was in high school.
That's what started my interest in Shavian, but that first one is long
gone.

So imagine my surprise the other day, to be going through the
Amazon.com internet site, and rather on a lark, did a search for
Androcles and the Lion, and six original (obviously used) editions
came up. They were all only $5.00 or less. For that price, I
couldn't lose, so I ordered one, and it arrived this afternoon in
wonderful shape.

Just before typing this post, I checked the Amazon site again and this
time no Shaw editions came up under Androcles and the Lion. But when
I changed the search to Androcles and the Lion, Shaw Alphabet Edition
the the remaining five used books came up again.

So if anyone does not have their own copy, or perhaps might want
another for a friend or just for safekeeping, here is your chance.

I am really thrilled to have gotten my own copy again. Now I will be
spending the weekend reading it.

Dana