Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Isn't it better-looking like this?

----- Original Message -----
From: "tim_rice09" <tim_rice09@...>
To: <shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: [shawalphabet] Re: An interesting Idea


𐑦𐑥𐑨𐑡𐑩𐑯 𐑣𐑬 𐑥𐑳𐑗 𐑦𐑑 𐑢𐑫𐑛 𐑣𐑧𐑤𐑐 𐑖𐑷𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑿𐑟𐑼𐑟 𐑑
𐑣𐑨𐑝 𐑩𐑯 𐑪.𐑕. 𐑞𐑨𐑑 𐑢𐑻𐑒𐑕 𐑓𐑹 𐑞𐑧𐑥 (𐑹𐑔𐑩𐑛𐑪𐑒𐑕
𐑕𐑩𐑐𐑹𐑑 𐑢𐑫𐑛 𐑣𐑨𐑝 𐑑 𐑚𐑰 𐑦𐑙𐑒𐑤𐑵𐑛𐑛 𐑓𐑹
𐑿𐑟𐑩𐑚𐑦𐑤𐑦𐑑𐑦) 𐑯 𐑦𐑥𐑨𐑡𐑩𐑯 𐑣𐑬 𐑥𐑳𐑗 𐑐𐑩𐑚𐑤𐑦𐑕𐑦𐑑𐑦
𐑦𐑑 𐑢𐑫𐑛 𐑜𐑦𐑝 𐑞 𐑨𐑤𐑓𐑩𐑚𐑧𐑑 𐑦𐑑𐑕𐑧𐑤𐑓. 𐑚𐑳𐑑 𐑘𐑧𐑕, 𐑞𐑺
𐑦𐑟 𐑩 𐑤𐑪𐑑 𐑝 𐑢𐑻𐑒 𐑑 𐑛𐑵.

Imagine how much it would help Shavian users to have an OS that works
for them (Orthodox support would have to be included for usability)
and imagine how much publicity it would give the alphabet itself. But
yes, there is a lot of work to do.

𐑥𐑱𐑚𐑦 𐑲 𐑨𐑥 𐑡𐑳𐑕𐑑 𐑒𐑮𐑱𐑟𐑦, •𐑑𐑦𐑥

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Philip Newton"
<philip.newton@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:45 AM, tim_rice09 <tim_rice09@...> wrote:
> > I am a Linux user and one of the reasons I switched to it was that it
> > does a better job at supporting Shavian than the more popular OS I
> > switched from. But the support it has is still not good enough (no
> > keyboard...). So I had the idea: translate Linux into Shavian. Call me
> > insane, but I think this has potential.
>
> The advantage of open source software means that it's a lot easier to
> translate it into other languages, in general.
>
> It's still a heck of a lot of work, though.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
>



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Duhr.... I actually know a copyright lawyer. Next time I see him, (which granted might be a while) I could always ask him. I know that it's a derivative work, but I'm not sure if translation is the same vein as transliteration. I believe it would be much harder to do a transliterated work.

--Star, who bought a copy of Cat in the Hat in Latin for my son.

=========

"By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Worvan, you shall be avenged!"
-- Dr. Lazarus, Galaxy Quest


http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad



----- Original Message ----
From: paul vandenbrink <vandenbrinkg@...>
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 4:17:34 PM
Subject: [shawalphabet] Re: SEriN kwOtabel Ftemz


Hi Star

I agree that a transliteration of a copyrighted work certainly
counts as a derivative work, but what are the penalties.
I think translations have to get a new copyright.
A Shavian Transliteration probably allows for some structural
simplifications, that makes the new work somewhat less than an exact
match.
There would be no Apostrophes or Capitalization.
Different Abreviations and Acronyms.
Simpler Punctuation.

I would be interesting to see what a court case would determine
in the USA and the UK.
Regards, Paul V.
____________ _________ _________ _____attached_ _________ _________ __
--- In shawalphabet@ yahoogroups. com, Star Raven
<celestraof12worlds @...> wrote:
>
> I dunno about aphorisms or hyperbole, but a transliteration of a
copyrighted work counts as a derivative work. Better than Fan
Fiction, Not quite as intricate as outright translation.
>
> --Star
>
> =========>
>
> "By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Worvan, you shall be
avenged!"
> -- Dr. Lazarus, Galaxy Quest
>
>
> http://www.livejour nal.com/users/ wodentoad
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: paul vandenbrink <vandenbrinkg@ ...>
> To: shawalphabet@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:06:05 AM
> Subject: [shawalphabet] Re: SEriN kwOtabel Ftemz
>
>
> Hi Kirk
> Some of these aphorisms are a litle extreme.
> Exageration is not always benficial.
> It becomes Hyperbole (hFpxbOlI).
> We don't want these rivers of thought to flood our basements.
>
> I would soften the following ones:
>
> "wizdum hAs lital mIniN until ekspCIens hAz givan V a klCD
pDspektiv
> v H pryblum."
> > --/bergen evAnz
>
> "egzAJerESon iz H pryses v enhAnsiN H IsenSul kXiktDistiks v jD
> subJekt.
> it kAn bI jMzd in enI stFl v drYiN...
> H first step V tEk iz t lUk awE from H subJekt n serc jD rezerv v
> memOrIz n asOsIESunz fP HOz kXiktDistiks HAt difFn H subJekt V R
> drYiN.
> drY a kXakacD, but a klC, kunsFs n abuv Yl rekagnFzabal kXakacD.
> kXakacxz bring kXiktDistiks intM pryminens wFal stil retEniN QD
> rekagnFSun v HX subject."
> > --tom kinkEd
>
> rigRdz, /pYl /vI.
> P.S. Does anyone know if copyright still applies after a passage
has
> been transliterated into the Shavian Alphabet?
> ____________ ________attached _________ _________ _________ __
>
> --- In shawalphabet@ yahoogroups. com, "kirk desimus" <kfs111@>
> wrote:
> >
> > lEdeld sAmpliNz from riverz v TYt.
> >
> > "wons a nMzpEper tucez a stOri, H fAkts or lost fOrever, Iven t H
> > prOtAgonists. " --/norman mEler
> >
> > "wizdom iz mIniNles until jUr On eksperiens hAz given it
> mIniN."
> > --/bergen evAnz
> >
> > t trMli nO god wI must kom t nO Qr inermOst self. wons wI hAv
> lOkEted H
> > SFniN lFt At H kOr v Qr bIiN wI wil nO hM god iz. --212
> >
> > "H trubel wiH H profit sistem hAz YlwEz ben HAt it waz hFli
> unprofitabel
> > t mOst pIpel." --I.bI. /wFt
> >
> > "lANgwaJ iz H mEn instrument v mAn'z refjMzal t Aksept H wOrld
Az
> it
> > iz." --JOrJ /stFner
> >
> > An od litel bUk v fiziks: 'H mAni-wOrldz interpretESon v kwontum
> > mekAniks.' --530
> >
> > "H dFnasYr'z elOkwent leson iz HAt if som bignes iz gUd, An
> OverabundAns
> > v bignes iz not nesesarili beter."
> >
> > --/lI FakOka
> >
> > "egzAJerESon iz H proses v enhAnsiN H esenSial kErAkteristiks v
jUr
> > subJekt. it kAn bI jMzd in Ani stFl v drYiN...H first step jM
tEk
> iz t
> > lUk awE from H subJekt n serc jUr rezerv v memOrIz n asOsiESon
fOr
> HOz
> > kErAkteristiks HAt defFn H subJekt jM or drYiN."
> >
> > --tom kinkEd
> >
> > "H rOl v H rFter iz not t sE wat wI kAn Yl sE, but wat wI or
> unEbel t
> > sE." --/AnFs nin
> >
> > wiHQt memOri wat litel hApines Her wUd bI!
> >
> > fOr hApines iz somTiN wI seldom eksperiens. rAHer it iz somTiN wI
> > remember. --908
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
> >
> > .
> >
>

As far as translating (transcribing, transliterating) Linux into Shavian
goes...

The one single-handed version I have seen referred to is for Puppy Linux
into Vietnamese. Far better to experiment with a single programme first.
Have a look at AbiWord in one of its language versions.

Presumably you would be starting from an English version (the old Star
Office began as German, and an early English version had a warning "if
you press the wrong button you will become an error message"). You can
choose the menus for the interface, or the manual. One advantage of a
GUI in Shavian is that more space is available. No need to bother about
capitals either, but the underlining of individual letters for
short-cuts may have to go. Wonder how they manage these things in
non-alphabetic languages or even in Arabic, which is, like Shavian, more
of a script than an alphabet?

Most localizing, horrible word, is done with a bilingual file called a
po file, segmented into words or sentences in two columns, for source
and target languages. It is in effect an editable database or
translation memory. For the sake of classification each language needs
an ID. Shavian does not have one, but you can borrow or improvise. You
can't tamper with the canonical version or alter its Unicode allocation
in any way - do that and you will be terribly lonely.

I've tinkered about a bit myself, beginning 20 years ago on the Amstrad
Joyce. That gave me a closed system for typing Shavian, displaying it on
the screen, and printing from a screen dump. Not much better than the
𐑥𐑱𐑚𐑦 𐑲 𐑨𐑥
𐑡𐑳𐑕𐑑 𐑒𐑮𐑱𐑟𐑦
�𐑑𐑦𐑥
that crept into this thread, courtesy of Yahoo. Even with more modern
systems it may be easier to keep to one keyboard and font when working
with Shavian..

Two useful tools are Cat's Cradle for HTML formatted texts and OmegaT,
an open-source CAT (Computer Assisted Translation) tool. It should be
possible to get a list of all the words in a document (can be done in
one go at the command line) and then automate the substitutions. I
prefer to work in 7-bit ASCII. I presume I can save it as UTF-16, like
an old Word document from when Unicode was born, and then use a hash
table for the relevant values to toggle Shavian.

John Burrows

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 12:27 AM, John Burrows <burrows@...> wrote:
> the underlining of individual letters for
> short-cuts may have to go. Wonder how they manage these things in
> non-alphabetic languages or even in Arabic, which is, like Shavian, more
> of a script than an alphabet?

At least for Japanese and Chinese, they include an underlined Roman
letter in parentheses to indicate the keyboard shortcut, so you might
see, for example, " File (_F_) ". At least in menu bars.

Cheers,
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

tim_rice09 wrote:
>
> I am a Linux user and one of the reasons I switched to it was that it
> does a better job at supporting Shavian than the more popular OS I
> switched from. But the support it has is still not good enough (no
> keyboard...). So I had the idea: translate Linux into Shavian. Call me
> insane, but I think this has potential.

Oops, sorry for being away so long! :)

What exactly do you mean by "no keyboard"? I've been typing in Shavian
on my Linux machine for years now, though I suppose I might be the only
one with full Shavian keyboard support under Linux.

If you would like to have keyboard support in X-windows, just grab a
copy of this file: http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
Put it in your xkb/symbols/ directory, which used to always be found
under /etc/X11/ but seems to have moved around a bit in recent distros.
I'm currently running Debian Lenny on this computer, and I had to put
the file in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols while with my previous Linux
distro (LFS 5) I had it installed in /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/.
Anyway, you'll know if you get it right because you will be able to run
in an X terminal "setxkbmap us" (DON'T forget that part!)
followed by "setxkbmap shavian". If it works, you won't see any errors,
and assuming you have a Unicode Shavian font
installed, everything you type will either come out in Shavian, or be
messed up in some way, or not show up at all,
depending on what application you are typing in. So far, I've had the
best results with GTK+ (and thus Gnome) applications.
I have yet to see a KDE application work right, and Mozilla-based apps
such as Firefox and Thunderbird won't let you
type in Shavian, though you can still type into a text editor and then
copy and paste into your Mozilla app. I've not tried to hack Shavian
support into the Linux text-mode console, dealing with X-windows was
hard enough!

Anyway, when you want to switch back to Latin text, just go to your
terminal and hit your up arrow key to recall the
command "setxkbmap us", hit enter, and you're back to Latin. If you
forget to run that command before the one which
activates Shavian, you may need to do some copy and paste work with your
mouse to get back, so be careful! Bash
doesn't understand commands typed in Shavian! You could also replace
the "us" with "gb" if that suits you.

I'll post later some info which should allow you to automate the process
of switching between
Latin and Shavian characters. When done properly, you can have a key or
key combination which will toggle
between Shavian and Latin. However, I'm too tired and lazy to do it
tonight, so it'll have to wait!

If all is well, you should see Shavian text below, mixed with Latin text.

𐑣𐑢𐑳𐑑 𐑧𐑜𐑟𐑨𐑒𐑑𐑤𐑰 𐑛𐑵 𐑿 𐑥𐑰𐑯 𐑚𐑲 "𐑯𐑴 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛"? 𐑲𐑝
𐑚𐑧𐑯 𐑑𐑲𐑐𐑦𐑙 𐑦𐑯 ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑪𐑯 𐑥𐑲 ·𐑤𐑦𐑯𐑳𐑒𐑕 𐑥𐑩𐑖𐑰𐑯
𐑓𐑹 𐑘𐑽𐑟 𐑯𐑬, 𐑞𐑴 𐑲 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑴𐑟 𐑲 𐑥𐑲𐑑 𐑚𐑰 𐑞 𐑴𐑯𐑤𐑰 𐑢𐑳𐑯
𐑢𐑦𐑔 𐑓𐑫𐑤 ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑹𐑑 𐑳𐑯𐑛𐑼 ·𐑤𐑦𐑯𐑳𐑒𐑕.
𐑦𐑓 𐑿 𐑢𐑫𐑛 𐑤𐑲𐑒 𐑑 𐑣𐑨𐑝 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑹𐑑 𐑦𐑯
X-𐑢𐑦𐑯𐑛𐑴𐑟, 𐑡𐑳𐑕𐑑 𐑜𐑮𐑨𐑚 𐑩 𐑒𐑪𐑐𐑰 𐑝 𐑞𐑦𐑕 𐑓𐑲𐑤:
http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
𐑐𐑫𐑑 𐑦𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑘𐑹 xkb/symbols/ 𐑛𐑲𐑮𐑧𐑒𐑑𐑹𐑰, 𐑣𐑢𐑦𐑗 𐑿𐑕𐑑 𐑑
𐑷𐑤𐑢𐑱𐑟 𐑚𐑰 𐑓𐑬𐑯𐑛 𐑳𐑯𐑛𐑼 /etc/X11/ 𐑚𐑳𐑑 𐑕𐑰𐑥𐑟 𐑑 𐑣𐑨𐑝
𐑥𐑵𐑝𐑛 𐑩𐑮𐑬𐑯𐑛 𐑩 𐑚𐑦𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑮𐑰𐑕𐑩𐑯𐑑 𐑛𐑦𐑕𐑑𐑮𐑴𐑟.

So, hope this helps! Sorry about the length. Any questions, feel free
to ask!

Ethan

--
('> He shall cover thee with his feathers, <')
/)) and under his wings shalt thou trust: ((\
//'' his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ''\\

Ethan wrote:
> tim_rice09 wrote:
> >
> > I am a Linux user and one of the reasons I switched to it was that it
> > does a better job at supporting Shavian than the more popular OS I
> > switched from. But the support it has is still not good enough (no
> > keyboard...). So I had the idea: translate Linux into Shavian. Call me
> > insane, but I think this has potential.
>
> Oops, sorry for being away so long! :)
>
> What exactly do you mean by "no keyboard"? I've been typing in Shavian
> on my Linux machine for years now, though I suppose I might be the only
> one with full Shavian keyboard support under Linux.
>
> If you would like to have keyboard support in X-windows, just grab a
> copy of this file: http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
> Put it in your xkb/symbols/ directory, which used to always be found
> under /etc/X11/ but seems to have moved around a bit in recent distros.
> I'm currently running Debian Lenny on this computer, and I had to put
> the file in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols while with my previous Linux
> distro (LFS 5) I had it installed in /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/.
> Anyway, you'll know if you get it right because you will be able to run
> in an X terminal "setxkbmap us" (DON'T forget that part!)
> followed by "setxkbmap shavian". If it works, you won't see any errors,
> and assuming you have a Unicode Shavian font
> installed, everything you type will either come out in Shavian, or be
> messed up in some way, or not show up at all,
> depending on what application you are typing in. So far, I've had the
> best results with GTK+ (and thus Gnome) applications.
> I have yet to see a KDE application work right, and Mozilla-based apps
> such as Firefox and Thunderbird won't let you
> type in Shavian, though you can still type into a text editor and then
> copy and paste into your Mozilla app. I've not tried to hack Shavian
> support into the Linux text-mode console, dealing with X-windows was
> hard enough!
>
> Anyway, when you want to switch back to Latin text, just go to your
> terminal and hit your up arrow key to recall the
> command "setxkbmap us", hit enter, and you're back to Latin. If you
> forget to run that command before the one which
> activates Shavian, you may need to do some copy and paste work with your
> mouse to get back, so be careful! Bash
> doesn't understand commands typed in Shavian! You could also replace
> the "us" with "gb" if that suits you.
>
> I'll post later some info which should allow you to automate the process
> of switching between
> Latin and Shavian characters. When done properly, you can have a key or
> key combination which will toggle
> between Shavian and Latin. However, I'm too tired and lazy to do it
> tonight, so it'll have to wait!
>
> If all is well, you should see Shavian text below, mixed with Latin text.
>
> 𐑣𐑢𐑳𐑑 𐑧𐑜𐑟𐑨𐑒𐑑𐑤𐑰 𐑛𐑵 𐑿 𐑥𐑰𐑯 𐑚𐑲 "𐑯𐑴 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛"? 𐑲𐑝
> 𐑚𐑧𐑯 𐑑𐑲𐑐𐑦𐑙 𐑦𐑯 ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑪𐑯 𐑥𐑲 ·𐑤𐑦𐑯𐑳𐑒𐑕 𐑥𐑩𐑖𐑰𐑯
> 𐑓𐑹 𐑘𐑽𐑟 𐑯𐑬, 𐑞𐑴 𐑲 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑴𐑟 𐑲 𐑥𐑲𐑑 𐑚𐑰 𐑞 𐑴𐑯𐑤𐑰 𐑢𐑳𐑯
> 𐑢𐑦𐑔 𐑓𐑫𐑤 ·𐑖𐑱𐑝𐑾𐑯 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑹𐑑 𐑳𐑯𐑛𐑼 ·𐑤𐑦𐑯𐑳𐑒𐑕.
> 𐑦𐑓 𐑿 𐑢𐑫𐑛 𐑤𐑲𐑒 𐑑 𐑣𐑨𐑝 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛 𐑕𐑳𐑐𐑹𐑑 𐑦𐑯
> X-𐑢𐑦𐑯𐑛𐑴𐑟, 𐑡𐑳𐑕𐑑 𐑜𐑮𐑨𐑚 𐑩 𐑒𐑪𐑐𐑰 𐑝 𐑞𐑦𐑕 𐑓𐑲𐑤:
> http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
> 𐑐𐑫𐑑 𐑦𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑘𐑹 xkb/symbols/ 𐑛𐑲𐑮𐑧𐑒𐑑𐑹𐑰, 𐑣𐑢𐑦𐑗 𐑿𐑕𐑑 𐑑
> 𐑷𐑤𐑢𐑱𐑟 𐑚𐑰 𐑓𐑬𐑯𐑛 𐑳𐑯𐑛𐑼 /etc/X11/ 𐑚𐑳𐑑 𐑕𐑰𐑥𐑟 𐑑 𐑣𐑨𐑝
> 𐑥𐑵𐑝𐑛 𐑩𐑮𐑬𐑯𐑛 𐑩 𐑚𐑦𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑮𐑰𐑕𐑩𐑯𐑑 𐑛𐑦𐑕𐑑𐑮𐑴𐑟.
>
> So, hope this helps! Sorry about the length. Any questions, feel free
> to ask!
>
> Ethan
>

Sorry about the html junk that got added to that message, I'm still
rooting out configuration issues with Icedove. This one (and the quoted
message above) should be all plain text this time.

--
('> He shall cover thee with his feathers, <')
/)) and under his wings shalt thou trust: ((\
//'' his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ''\\

Ethan wrote:
>
> Sorry about the html junk that got added to that message, I'm still
> rooting out configuration issues with Icedove. This one (and the quoted
> message above) should be all plain text this time.

Well, it would be if Yahoo didn't add their own html junk... I had to go
change delivery prefs to "traditional" yet once more... it seems like
I'm constantly fighting with Yahoo to keep the junk out!

--
('> He shall cover thee with his feathers, <')
/)) and under his wings shalt thou trust: ((\
//'' his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ''\\

pikeriN: E? wat difikulti?


higinz: t get her t tYk grAmar. H mIr pronunsiESon iz Izi enuf.

lFza: F dOnt wont t tYk grAmar. F wont t tYk lFk a lEdi.

misez pIrs: wil jM plIz kIp t H pqnt mister higinz. F wont t nO on wat
termz H girl iz t bI hIr. iz SI t hAv Ani wEJez? n wat iz t bekom v her
wen jM'v finiSd jUr tIciN? jM must lUk ahed a litel.

higinz: [impESientli] wat's t bekom v her if F lIv her in H guter? tel
mI HAt misez pIrs.

misez pIrs: HAt's her On biznes, not jUrz mister higinz.

higinz: wel, wen F'v dun wiH her, wI kAn TrO her bAk intM H guter; n Hen
it wil bI her On biznes agAn; sO HAts Yl rFt.

lFza: O, jM'v nO fIliN hort in jM: jM dOnt kEr fOr noTiN but jUrself.
[SI rFzez n tEks H flOr rezolMtli]. hIr! f'v hAd enuf v His. F'm gOiN
[mEkiN fOr H dOr]. jM Yt t bI aSEmd v jUrself, jM Yt.

higinz [snAciN a cokolat krIm from H piAnO, hiz Fz sudenli beginiN t
twiNkel wiH miscef]. hAv som cokolats, /elFza.

lFza: [hYltiN, tempted] hQ dM F nO wat mFt bI in Hem? F'v herd v girlz
bIiN drugd bF H lFk v jM.

higinz wips Qt hiz pen-nFf; kuts a cokolat in 2; pUts won hAf intM hiz
mQT n bOlts it; n Yferz her H oHer hAf.

higinz: pleJ v gUd fET, /elFza. F It won hAf jM It H oHer.

[/lFza Openz her mQT t retOrt: hI pops H hAf cokolat intM it]. jM SAl
hAv boksez v Hem, bErelz v Hem, everi dE. jM SAl liv on Hem, E?

lFza: [hM hAz dispOzd v H cokolat After bIiN nIrli cOkd bF it] F wUdent
hAv Et it, Onli F'm tM lEdilFk t tEk it Qt v mF mQT.

higinz: lisen, /elFza. F TiNk jM sed jM kEm in a tAksi.

lFza: wel, wat if F did? F'v Az gUd a rFt t tEk a tAksi Az Aniwon els.

higinz: jM hAv, /elFza; n in fjMcur jM SAl hAv Az mAni tAksIz Az jM
wont. jM SAl gO up n dQn n rQnd H tQn in a tAksi everi dE. TiNk v HAt,
/elFza.

misez pIrs: mister higinz: jUr temptiN H girl. its not rFt. SI SUd TiNk
v H fjMcur.

higinz: At her EJ! nonsens! tFm enuf t TiNk v H fjMcur wen jM hAvent Ani
fjMcur t TiNk v. nO, /elFza: dM Az His lEdi duz: TiNk v oHer pIpel'z
fjMcurz; but never TiNk v jUr On. TiNk v cokolats, n tAksIz, n gOld, n
dFamondz.

lFza: nO: F dOnt wont nO gOld n nO dFamondz. Fm a gUd girl, F Am. [SI
sits dQn agAn, wiH An atempt At digniti].

The Shavian keyboard, it works! Sadly Facebook is the only site that I
have posted anything Shavian on and not seen it turn into a horrifying
mess. There is a long way to go before Shavian has even the support
that Amharic enjoys but the Unicode encoding is a massive leap
forward. Being able to switch keyboards out of the terminal took a
little workaround (a launcher on the toolbar) but the result is
actually quite useful. Now to start a petition for Yahoo to include
full Unicode support, that would be nice.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Ethan <ethan@...> wrote:
>
> Ethan wrote:
> > tim_rice09 wrote:
> > >
> > > I am a Linux user and one of the reasons I switched to it was
that it
> > > does a better job at supporting Shavian than the more popular OS I
> > > switched from. But the support it has is still not good enough (no
> > > keyboard...). So I had the idea: translate Linux into Shavian.
Call me
> > > insane, but I think this has potential.
> >
> > Oops, sorry for being away so long! :)
> >
> > What exactly do you mean by "no keyboard"? I've been typing in
Shavian
> > on my Linux machine for years now, though I suppose I might be the
only
> > one with full Shavian keyboard support under Linux.
> >
> > If you would like to have keyboard support in X-windows, just grab a
> > copy of this file: http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
> > Put it in your xkb/symbols/ directory, which used to always be found
> > under /etc/X11/ but seems to have moved around a bit in recent
distros.
> > I'm currently running Debian Lenny on this computer, and I had to put
> > the file in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols while with my previous Linux
> > distro (LFS 5) I had it installed in /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/.
> > Anyway, you'll know if you get it right because you will be able
to run
> > in an X terminal "setxkbmap us" (DON'T forget that part!)
> > followed by "setxkbmap shavian". If it works, you won't see any
errors,
> > and assuming you have a Unicode Shavian font
> > installed, everything you type will either come out in Shavian, or be
> > messed up in some way, or not show up at all,
> > depending on what application you are typing in. So far, I've had
the
> > best results with GTK+ (and thus Gnome) applications.
> > I have yet to see a KDE application work right, and Mozilla-based
apps
> > such as Firefox and Thunderbird won't let you
> > type in Shavian, though you can still type into a text editor and
then
> > copy and paste into your Mozilla app. I've not tried to hack Shavian
> > support into the Linux text-mode console, dealing with X-windows was
> > hard enough!
> >
> > Anyway, when you want to switch back to Latin text, just go to your
> > terminal and hit your up arrow key to recall the
> > command "setxkbmap us", hit enter, and you're back to Latin. If you
> > forget to run that command before the one which
> > activates Shavian, you may need to do some copy and paste work
with your
> > mouse to get back, so be careful! Bash
> > doesn't understand commands typed in Shavian! You could also replace
> > the "us" with "gb" if that suits you.
> >
> > I'll post later some info which should allow you to automate the
process
> > of switching between
> > Latin and Shavian characters. When done properly, you can have a
key or
> > key combination which will toggle
> > between Shavian and Latin. However, I'm too tired and lazy to do it
> > tonight, so it'll have to wait!
> >
> > If all is well, you should see Shavian text below, mixed with
Latin text.
> >
> > ð`£ð`¢ð`³ð`` ð`§ð`œð`Ÿð`¨ð`'ð``ð`¤ð`° ð`›ð`µ
ð`¿ ð`¥ð`°ð`¯ ð`šð`² "ð`¯ð`´ ð`'ð`°ð`šð`¹ð`›"? ð`²ð`
> > ð`šð`§ð`¯ ð``ð`²ð`ð`¦ð`™ ð`¦ð`¯
·ð`–ð`±ð`ð`¾ð`¯ ð`ªð`¯ ð`¥ð`²
·ð`¤ð`¦ð`¯ð`³ð`'ð`• ð`¥ð`©ð`–ð`°ð`¯
> > ð`"ð`¹ ð`˜ð`½ð`Ÿ ð`¯ð`¬, ð`žð`´ ð`²
ð`•ð`³ð`ð`´ð`Ÿ ð`² ð`¥ð`²ð`` ð`šð`° ð`ž
ð`´ð`¯ð`¤ð`° ð`¢ð`³ð`¯
> > ð`¢ð`¦ð`" ð`"ð`«ð`¤
·ð`–ð`±ð`ð`¾ð`¯ ð`'ð`°ð`šð`¹ð`›
ð`•ð`³ð`ð`¹ð`` ð`³ð`¯ð`›ð`¼ ·ð`¤ð`¦ð`¯ð`³ð`'ð`•.
> > ð`¦ð`" ð`¿ ð`¢ð`«ð`› ð`¤ð`²ð`' ð``
ð`£ð`¨ð` ð`'ð`°ð`šð`¹ð`› ð`•ð`³ð`ð`¹ð`` ð`¦ð`¯
> > X-ð`¢ð`¦ð`¯ð`›ð`´ð`Ÿ, ð`¡ð`³ð`•ð``
ð`œð`®ð`¨ð`š ð`© ð`'ð`ªð`ð`° ð` ð`žð`¦ð`• ð`"ð`²ð`¤:
> > http://shavian.ravenscall.net/files/shavian
> > ð`ð`«ð`` ð`¦ð`` ð`¦ð`¯ ð`˜ð`¹
xkb/symbols/ ð`›ð`²ð`®ð`§ð`'ð``ð`¹ð`°, ð`£ð`¢ð`¦ð`—
ð`¿ð`•ð`` ð``
> > ð`·ð`¤ð`¢ð`±ð`Ÿ ð`šð`° ð`"ð`¬ð`¯ð`› ð`³ð`¯ð`›ð`¼
/etc/X11/ ð`šð`³ð`` ð`•ð`°ð`¥ð`Ÿ ð`` ð`£ð`¨ð`
> > ð`¥ð`µð`ð`› ð`©ð`®ð`¬ð`¯ð`› ð`©
ð`šð`¦ð`` ð`¦ð`¯ ð`®ð`°ð`•ð`©ð`¯ð``
ð`›ð`¦ð`•ð``ð`®ð`´ð`Ÿ.
> >
> > So, hope this helps! Sorry about the length. Any questions, feel
free
> > to ask!
> >
> > Ethan
> >
>
> Sorry about the html junk that got added to that message, I'm still
> rooting out configuration issues with Icedove. This one (and the
quoted
> message above) should be all plain text this time.
>
> --
> ('> He shall cover thee with his feathers, <')
> /)) and under his wings shalt thou trust: ((\
> //'' his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ''\\
>

tim_rice09 wrote:
> The Shavian keyboard, it works! Sadly Facebook is the only site that I
> have posted anything Shavian on and not seen it turn into a horrifying
> mess. There is a long way to go before Shavian has even the support
> that Amharic enjoys but the Unicode encoding is a massive leap
> forward. Being able to switch keyboards out of the terminal took a
> little workaround (a launcher on the toolbar) but the result is
> actually quite useful. Now to start a petition for Yahoo to include
> full Unicode support, that would be nice.

I think the problem may be at your end. I've not had any problem with
most sites, and my own messages on this group come through (to me at
least) with no problem. However, I noticed your message is encoded as
ISO-8859-1, also called Latin-1. You can't encode Shavian as Latin-1,
and it gets scrambled because the site you send it to reads your
encoding as Latin-1 and mangles the Shavian. You need to set all of
your software to default to or prefer UTF-8 encoding, including your
email and browser.

Here's a few lines from your email headers:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Nonspam: Statistical 46%

The Shavian keyboard, it works! Sadly Facebook is the only site that I
<snip>

Now here are some similar lines from my own headers:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Nonspam: Statistical 37%

Ethan wrote:
>
> Sorry about the html junk that got added to that message, I'm still
<snip>

The important thing is that you use UTF-8 rather than ISO-8859-1.

You shouldn't see this:
>>> ð`£ð`¢ð`³ð`` ð`§ð`œð`Ÿð`¨ð`'ð``ð`¤ð`° ð`›ð`µ
> ð`¿ ð`¥ð`°ð`¯ ð`šð`² "ð`¯ð`´ ð`'ð`°ð`šð`¹ð`›"? ð`²ð`

You should see this:
>>> 𐑣𐑢𐑳𐑑 𐑧𐑜𐑟𐑨𐑒𐑑𐑤𐑰 𐑛𐑵 𐑿 𐑥𐑰𐑯 𐑚𐑲 "𐑯𐑴 𐑒𐑰𐑚𐑹𐑛"? 𐑲𐑝

--
('> He shall cover thee with his feathers, <')
/)) and under his wings shalt thou trust: ((\
//'' his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. ''\\