Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <tthurman@...> wrote:
> Here's a screenshot of the first draft of Shavian Firefox:
>
> http://shavian.org.uk/mozilla/firefox-screenshot.png
>
> This won't be ready for prime time for a few weeks, probably, but I thought you might like to see.


Could any of you who might be likely to want to try running Firefox in Shavian let me know which versions you're using? You can find out by choosing "About" off the "Help" menu. For example, I'm running 3.5.7.

Thanks!

Thomas

Hi Philip
Nice to hear from you. It's been awhile.

In defense of my point of view.
A Conlang is indeed an artifact, possibly even a work of art, if it is well done,
but it can only be appreciated by fellow Language speakers of which
there may be none, or fellow Language Creators of which ther are few, and typically too busy working on their language, to look into yours.

For a language to be important and for people to listen to it and try and understand it, it has to communicate something that people want to know.

For example, Hebrew, which used to be a dead language, was studied and learned for thousands of years because some people thought of a particular Hebrew Book, as the best available Biography of G-d, and his less than successful attempts to teach Human beings, morality.

I personally enjoy learning about ConLangs, and if I ever find a good one, I will promote with almost the same zeal, as I promote the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet.

If I found such a ConLang, and it was written in the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet, I would be Heaven. I just don't presume to think, that I could create such a thing.
But then given I could get that far, I would have to steal something exceedingly valuable and unknown and encode it into the Conlang, so that people would want to learn the Conlag in order to read it.
Maybe I could fix up the Bible codes and transplant it.

I would have to find just the right bait, for a better mousetrap, to catch a better mouse.

I would take a lifetime to pull off such a project.
Would you want to take over such a project, when I get it to the halfway point.
Still, it would be fun.

Regards, Paul V.
_________________attached______________________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
>
> 2010/2/1 pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...>:
> > My favorite Conlang to speak is Loglan or its new incarnation Lojban.
> > It is too much trouble to create a Language from scratch, when there are so many interesting languages to learn, already.
> > Why re-invent the wheel? I'd rather learn Klingon or Vulcan.
>
> For people who consider conlangs works of art, your question is a bit
> like saying, "There have been so many paintings made already - why
> make any new ones? I'd rather just admire [insert a couple of
> examples]."
>
> For those who consider them tools, you're right, of course - we don't
> need all that many differently-shaped wheels in the world.
>
> So it depends on your viewpoint.
>
> > P.S. I suspect spoken English started developing even before the wheel.
>
> Surely -- at least, if you include the period before it was
> recognisably "English" as distinct from, say, (the ancestors of)
> German or French or Russian.
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
> --
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
>

Hi All
I finally accept that there are 2 different er-sounds in English.

Can anyone explain the difference between the er-sound in conquer and the ur-sound
in concur.
Or the difference between the er-sound in enter and the ur-sound
in inter (as in bury or intomb).
Are there any guidelines on distinguishing these 2 sounds.

Regards, Paul V.
____________________-attached_______________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "paul vandenbrink" <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
> I like the idea of Teaching Shavian in 5 levels, especially if we
> are introducing the letters through typing rather than drawing.
> I think by giving students a Shaw font, and letting them see the
> letters right away, it gives them a Jump-start on learning the Shae
> Alphabet. Hand Writing should come later.
>
> I think these 8 letter pairs make a good size bite.
> > > p,b
> > > f,v
> > > t,d
> > > k,g
> > > s,z
> > > m,n
> > > l,r
> > > h,w
>
> They are very common consonant sounds in English. They also include
> Tall, Short and Deep letters, which is important to teach right
> upfront. It is also useful to use them to show how Consonont
> clusters work.
>
> I would also like to get away from calling these composite sounds
> ligatures. They all are actually single distinct sounds,
> that I would
> tend to include in with the other simple Vowel Letters.
> For example, I use the Letter Yew to also represent the Dipthong
> "ew" in words such as new, few, cute, fuel and skew.
>
> And I note in the pronunciation key of www.dictionary.com
> they find it necessary to distnguish the 4 r-based vowel sounds.
> [air] air, careful, wear
> [eer] ear, hero, beer
> [er] teacher, afterward, murderer
> [ur] early, bird, stirring
> I guess [or} isn't common in American pronunciation as people say
> saw-ree instead of sore-ee (Sorry about that)
>
> Just because Diagraphs were the only practical way of writing these
> r-based vowel sounds in the Roman Alphabet,
> doesn't mean we should buy into
> the fallacy, that they are really in fact 2 distinct sounds written
> togather
> strictly because they are common juxtapositions.
> I consider them to distinct sounds, no different in principle than
> the five common English Dipthongs (Ai, Ei, Oi, Ow, Ew)
>
> So what do you think?

Hi Paul, and all,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11" wrote:
>
> Hi All
> I finally accept that there are 2 different er-sounds in English.
>
> Can anyone explain the difference between the er-sound in conquer and
the ur-sound in concur.
> Or the difference between the er-sound in enter and the ur-sound in
inter (as in bury or intomb).

Stress! The main difference is that the second syllable of concur and
inter receives the primary word stress, whilst the second syllable of
conquer and enter receives only secondary word stress.

Because of this difference of stress, other things may happen which give
the two sounds different "flavours"; e.g. :

* the stressed syllable usually lengthens;
* its pitch tends to change - often by lowering; and
* it is more fully enunciated, which may make the "r-ness" or
rhoticity of the sound more evident (but only in rhotic dialects).
However, linguists usually describe a single "er" sound in most English
dialects, not two; and in non-r dialects like my Aussie one, that sound
coalesces with the ubiquitous schwa, e.g. as in the first syllable of
"again".


> Are there any guidelines on distinguishing these 2 sounds.

What else do you need to know about them, other than that they're the
same (sound) phoneme with two different stress levels (phonemes)
applied? ;-)

The combination '@ contains two phonemes, the first being the primary
stress, the second the schwa; whereas the combination written @, with
unmarked stress, also contains two phonemes, the first being secondary
stress, the second the schwa.

Not that we're used to thinking of stress as important enough to write
down; the Traditional Orthographies don't use any stress markers, except
perhaps in poetry texts for English literature studies. But stress in
English IS phonemic, and Shavian is incomplete without it, I think.

Regards,
Yahya

Thanks Yahya

That was a good explanation.

It is hard for me to accept that stress alone in
English IS indeed phonemic.
And well I don't really accept that the Shavian script is incomplete without it, I do think it is sort of useful to express that particular distinction right there in the Shaw Alphabet, in least for Rhotic English.
It took me years to reach that point of acceptence of the Err Letter.

But when I look at words like
conference and convergence,
it definitely seems that the additional stress and voicing and lengthening on the ver syllable, is a big part in making these 2 similar words sound different.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I think the name Err, should be changed to Urge or Purge,
or even Urge to Purge, because Err is pronounce like Error, in my speech community. Which is unhelpful.

P.P.S. Thanks again

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Paul, and all,
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11" wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> > I finally accept that there are 2 different er-sounds in English.
> >
> > Can anyone explain the difference between the er-sound in conquer and
> the ur-sound in concur.
> > Or the difference between the er-sound in enter and the ur-sound in
> inter (as in bury or intomb).
>
> Stress! The main difference is that the second syllable of concur and
> inter receives the primary word stress, whilst the second syllable of
> conquer and enter receives only secondary word stress.
>
> Because of this difference of stress, other things may happen which give
> the two sounds different "flavours"; e.g. :
>
> * the stressed syllable usually lengthens;
> * its pitch tends to change - often by lowering; and
> * it is more fully enunciated, which may make the "r-ness" or
> rhoticity of the sound more evident (but only in rhotic dialects).
> However, linguists usually describe a single "er" sound in most English
> dialects, not two; and in non-r dialects like my Aussie one, that sound
> coalesces with the ubiquitous schwa, e.g. as in the first syllable of
> "again".
>
>
> > Are there any guidelines on distinguishing these 2 sounds.
>
> What else do you need to know about them, other than that they're the
> same (sound) phoneme with two different stress levels (phonemes)
> applied? ;-)
>
> The combination '@ contains two phonemes, the first being the primary
> stress, the second the schwa; whereas the combination written @, with
> unmarked stress, also contains two phonemes, the first being secondary
> stress, the second the schwa.
>
> Not that we're used to thinking of stress as important enough to write
> down; the Traditional Orthographies don't use any stress markers, except
> perhaps in poetry texts for English literature studies. But stress in
> English IS phonemic, and Shavian is incomplete without it, I think.
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Hi Philip

Upon re-consideration,
I find there is Conlang.org which publicizes Conlangs, and even has a project going right now, to teach a useful Conlang to a group of aficionados. These proposals seem less up in the air, than I thought.

They even have a conference this year in Saarbrücken, Germany.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. The concept of a spoken language used by just one individual has an interesting history. Some philosophers question whether you can even call it a language.
But once you write a message in such a language down, whether you have a listener in mind or not, communication is potentially activated, and the action definately becomes language.
_________________attached_____________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11" <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Philip
> Nice to hear from you. It's been awhile.
>
> In defense of my point of view.
> A Conlang is indeed an artifact, possibly even a work of art, if it is well done,
> but it can only be appreciated by fellow Language speakers of which
> there may be none, or fellow Language Creators of which ther are few, and typically too busy working on their language, to look into yours.
>
> For a language to be important and for people to listen to it and try and understand it, it has to communicate something that people want to know.
>
> For example, Hebrew, which used to be a dead language, was studied and learned for thousands of years because some people thought of a particular Hebrew Book, as the best available Biography of G-d, and his less than successful attempts to teach Human beings, morality.
>
> I personally enjoy learning about ConLangs, and if I ever find a good one, I will promote with almost the same zeal, as I promote the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet.
>
> If I found such a ConLang, and it was written in the Shavian Phonetic Alphabet, I would be Heaven. I just don't presume to think, that I could create such a thing.
> But then given I could get that far, I would have to steal something exceedingly valuable and unknown and encode it into the Conlang, so that people would want to learn the Conlag in order to read it.
> Maybe I could fix up the Bible codes and transplant it.
>
> I would have to find just the right bait, for a better mousetrap, to catch a better mouse.
>
> I would take a lifetime to pull off such a project.
> Would you want to take over such a project, when I get it to the halfway point.
> Still, it would be fun.
>
> Regards, Paul V.
> _________________attached______________________________
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <philip.newton@> wrote:
> >
> > 2010/2/1 pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@>:
> > > My favorite Conlang to speak is Loglan or its new incarnation Lojban.
> > > It is too much trouble to create a Language from scratch, when there are so many interesting languages to learn, already.
> > > Why re-invent the wheel? I'd rather learn Klingon or Vulcan.
> >
> > For people who consider conlangs works of art, your question is a bit
> > like saying, "There have been so many paintings made already - why
> > make any new ones? I'd rather just admire [insert a couple of
> > examples]."
> >
> > For those who consider them tools, you're right, of course - we don't
> > need all that many differently-shaped wheels in the world.
> >
> > So it depends on your viewpoint.
> >
> > > P.S. I suspect spoken English started developing even before the wheel.
> >
> > Surely -- at least, if you include the period before it was
> > recognisably "English" as distinct from, say, (the ancestors of)
> > German or French or Russian.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Philip
> > --
> > Philip Newton <philip.newton@>
> >
>

Hi Phil
I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member communication, but as some members are still not comfortable,
using the Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.

We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^) in front of the word, or a caret at the beginning and end of a Shavian sentence.

Just to be sure everybody is familar with the keyboard mapping
let me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on the key pressed.
If you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out the word or phrase and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.
^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
(*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)


a=schwa (as in ado)
b=b
c=ch
d=d
e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
f=f
g=g
h=h
i=i
j=y
k=k
l=l
m=m
n=n
o=o (as in on, lawn, spa, drama, James Bond)
p=p
q=oy (as in boy, toy)
r=r
s=s
t=t
u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
v=v
w=w
x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
y=ah
z=z
A=a (as in Ash)
B=
C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
D=er
E=ey (as in eight)
F=ay (as in Ivan)
G= Namer Dot
H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
I=ee
J=j
K=
L=
M=oo (as in look, good, book)
N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
P=or (as in more, door, sore, horrible)
Q=ow (as in How, now, brown, cow, ouch)
R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
S=sh
T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
U=OO (ooze, booze, too, stew, blue, moon)
V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
W=ia (as in Shavian)
X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
Y=aw
Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, Genre, GiGi, Geneva))
.=.
,=,
/= Namer Dot

Please let me know if you see any typos.
regards, Paul V.
P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text soon,
using this format.
.
_____________________attached_____________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11" <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
> The most critical point however, is that we use the classical
> Shavian alphabet among members.

I agree with this in principle; however, not everyone has the same
proficiency.

> If we cannot do this or won't do this then we will have to
> accept the Shavian alphabet as a personal script to write
> things down that we don't want others to read. There were
> many times that I attended Esperanto meetings in which people
> spoke their own language more than Esperanto which of course,
> defeats the whole purpose. I still have no idea how we are to
> write in the Shavian alphabet for e-mail. I need someone to
> walk me through on this.

If we all have HTML-compatible mailers, we can post in HTML using a Shavian
font which we will have to agree on -- for example, "Shaw" or "Lionspaw" or "Androcles" or whatever.

> Once I understand how to do this I will write my comments in the Shavian alphabet.

I personally would prefer if postings in Shavian were accompanied by a
transliteration in Roman letters, for the benefit of those who do not read Shavian so fluently.
(The Shavian can be first so that those who prefer
reading Shavian need not skip down in the message.)

> By the way, I am not 100 percent permissive about people
> using Shaw's alphabet according to their regional accents. I
> would find it difficult with certain Scottish or Irish
> accents or the cockney accent.

I even find it strange when Americans spell according to their accent; for
example, many not distinguishing between "awe" and "on" or between "ash" and
"ah".
However, it's probably not the right idea to teach them "proper"
pronunciation so that they can write Shavian "properly".

Cheers,
Philip

Hi all,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11"wrote:
>
> Hi Phil
> I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member
communication, but as some members are still not comfortable, using the
Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.
>
> We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^) in front of
the word, or a caret at the beginning and end of a Shavian sentence.

I think this a good idea - Yahya.
>
> Just to be sure everybody is [familiar] with the keyboard mapping let
me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on the key pressed. If
you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out the word or phrase
and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.

Just had a computer crash last week, so I'll have to reinstall. Which
font do members prefer - Androcles?

> ^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
> (*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)
>
>
> a=schwa (as in ado)
> b=b
> c=ch
> d=d
> e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
> f=f
> g=g
> h=h
> i=i
> j=y
> k=k
> l=l
> m=m
> n=n
> o=o (as in on, lawn, spa, drama, James Bond)
In AusE (Australian English), that's:

* o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
* Y=aw (as in lawn)
* y=ah (as in spa, drama)
> p=p
> q=oy (as in boy, toy)
> r=r
> s=s
> t=t
> u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
> v=v
> w=w
> x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
> y=ah
> z=z
> A=a (as in Ash)
> B=
> C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
> D=er
> E=ey (as in eight)
> F=ay (as in Ivan)
> G= Namer Dot
> H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
> I=ee
> J=j
> K=
> L=
> M=oo (as in look, good, book)
> N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
> O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
> P=or (as in more, door, sore, horrible)
In AusE (Australian English), that's:

* o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
* P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
> S=sh
> T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
> U=OO (ooze, booze, too, stew, blue, moon)
> V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
In AusE (Australian English), that's:

* U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
* V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, stew, cute)
> W=ia (as in Shavian)
> X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
> Y=aw
> Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, Genre, GiGi, Geneva))

1. Perhaps add: as in garage, fusion.
2. Disagree on including Geneva (but would add French je, Gen`eve).
> .=.
> ,=,
> /= Namer Dot
>
> Please let me know if you see any typos.
> regards, Paul V.
> P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text soon,
> using this format.

These aren't typos, just differences. ;-)

Regards,
Yahya

(earlier:)
> > By the way, I am not 100 percent permissive about people
> > using Shaw's alphabet according to their regional accents. I
> > would find it difficult with certain Scottish or Irish
> > accents or the cockney accent.

That's just bad luck, isn't it? I do my best to understand those
strange Americans, because I call them my friends. Isn't it just simple
courtesy to allow that others ARE different? Respecting those
differences is not, unfortunately, given to everyone - but it's the only
way true understaninding grows - not by trying to legislate universal
sameness.

Regards,
Yahya

Hi Yahya
Good to hear from you. Thanks for the feedback.
I was trying to pick sample words, that would work across the British,Australian,American divide. It is amazing how a little water
can throw such a big spanner, into everyday pronunciation.
So anyway, I will throw stew out of the sample list.

As the walrus said,
^H tFm hAz kum t spIk v menI TiNz, v SUz & Sips & sIliN wAks, ^
^v kAbaJiz & kiNz, ^
^& wF duz H SYvWn Alfabet nId a fEs lift ^
^P weHD it kMd Just dU, wiT sum nV ekspoSD in a nV mRkit.^
^ V eS v E, fP eksAmpal^

^enI wE. t bI kantinVd^
regards, Paul V.
P.S. What is Gen`eve?
*********************attached*******************************
> > I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member
> communication, but as some members are still not comfortable, using the
> Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.
> >
> > We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^) in front of
> the word, or a caret at the beginning and end of a Shavian sentence.
>
> I think this a good idea - Yahya.
> >
> > Just to be sure everybody is [familiar] with the keyboard mapping let
> me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on the key pressed. If
> you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out the word or phrase
> and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.
>
> Just had a computer crash last week, so I'll have to reinstall. Which
> font do members prefer - Androcles?
>
> > ^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
> > (*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)
> >
> >
> > a=schwa (as in ado)
> > b=b
> > c=ch
> > d=d
> > e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
> > f=f
> > g=g
> > h=h
> > i=i
> > j=y
> > k=k
> > l=l
> > m=m
> > n=n
> > o=o (as in on, James Bond)
> In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> * Y=aw (as in lawn)
> * y=ah (as in spa, drama)
> > p=p
> > q=oy (as in boy, toy)
> > r=r
> > s=s
> > t=t
> > u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
> > v=v
> > w=w
> > x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
> > y=ah
> > z=z
> > A=a (as in Ash)
> > B=
> > C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
> > D=er
> > E=ey (as in eight)
> > F=ay (as in Ivan)
> > G= Namer Dot
> > H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
> > I=ee
> > J=j
> > K=
> > L=
> > M=oo (as in look, good, book)
> > N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
> > O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
> > P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> * P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
> > S=sh
> > T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
> > U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
> In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> * U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> * V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, stew, cute)
> > W=ia (as in Shavian)
> > X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
> > Y=aw
> > Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, fusion, Genre, GiGi, garage))
> 1. Perhaps add: as in garage, fusion.
> 2. Disagree on including Geneva (but would add French je)
> > .=.
> > ,=,
> > /= Namer Dot
> >
> > Please let me know if you see any typos.
> > regards, Paul V.
> > P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text soon,
> > using this format.
>
> These aren't typos, just differences. ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>
> (earlier:)
> > > By the way, I am not 100 percent permissive about people
> > > using Shaw's alphabet according to their regional accents. I
> > > would find it difficult with certain Scottish or Irish
> > > accents or the cockney accent.
>
> That's just bad luck, isn't it? I do my best to understand those
> strange Americans, because I call them my friends. Isn't it just simple
> courtesy to allow that others ARE different? Respecting those
> differences is not, unfortunately, given to everyone - but it's the only
> way true understaninding grows - not by trying to legislate universal sameness.
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Hi Paul,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "pvandenbrink11" <vandenbrinkg@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Yahya
> Good to hear from you. Thanks for the feedback.
> I was trying to pick sample words, that would work across the
British,Australian,American divide. It is amazing how a little water
> can throw such a big spanner, into everyday pronunciation.
> So anyway, I will throw stew out of the sample list.

Good!

>
> As the walrus said,
> ^H tFm hAz kum t spIk v menI TiNz, v SUz & Sips & sIliN wAks, ^
> ^v kAbaJiz & kiNz, ^
> ^& wF duz H SYvWn Alfabet nId a fEs lift ^
> ^P weHD it kMd Just dU, wiT sum nV ekspoSD in a nV mRkit.^
> ^ V eS v E, fP eksAmpal^

:)

>
> ^enI wE. t bI kantinVd^
> regards, Paul V.
> P.S. What is Gen`eve?

That was supposed to be Genève, but my US-International keyboard (of
Windows) was playing coy and gave way to the US keyboard (of Windows).
Genève, is, I believe, the name in French of the city we call Geneva
in English.



> *********************attached*******************************
> > > I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member
> > communication, but as some members are still not comfortable, using
the
> > Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.
> > >
> > > We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^) in front
of
> > the word, or a caret at the beginning and end of a Shavian sentence.
> >
> > I think this a good idea - Yahya.
> > >
> > > Just to be sure everybody is [familiar] with the keyboard mapping
let
> > me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on the key pressed.
If
> > you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out the word or
phrase
> > and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.
> >
> > Just had a computer crash last week, so I'll have to reinstall.
Which
> > font do members prefer - Androcles?

Any advice? (I've lost all the old messages on this topic.)

> >
> > > ^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
> > > (*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)
> > >
> > >
> > > a=schwa (as in ado)
> > > b=b
> > > c=ch
> > > d=d
> > > e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
> > > f=f
> > > g=g
> > > h=h
> > > i=i
> > > j=y
> > > k=k
> > > l=l
> > > m=m
> > > n=n
> > > o=o (as in on, James Bond)
> > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > * Y=aw (as in lawn)
> > * y=ah (as in spa, drama)
> > > p=p
> > > q=oy (as in boy, toy)
> > > r=r
> > > s=s
> > > t=t
> > > u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
> > > v=v
> > > w=w
> > > x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
> > > y=ah
> > > z=z
> > > A=a (as in Ash)
> > > B=
> > > C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
> > > D=er
> > > E=ey (as in eight)
> > > F=ay (as in Ivan)
> > > G= Namer Dot
> > > H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
> > > I=ee
> > > J=j
> > > K=
> > > L=
> > > M=oo (as in look, good, book)
> > > N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
> > > O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
> > > P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > * P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > > R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
> > > S=sh
> > > T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
> > > U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > > V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
> > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > * U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > * V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, stew, cute)
> > > W=ia (as in Shavian)
> > > X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
> > > Y=aw
> > > Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, fusion, Genre, GiGi, garage))
> > 1. Perhaps add: as in garage, fusion.
> > 2. Disagree on including Geneva (but would add French je)
> > > .=.
> > > ,=,
> > > /= Namer Dot
> > >
> > > Please let me know if you see any typos.
> > > regards, Paul V.
> > > P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text
soon,
> > > using this format.
> >
> > These aren't typos, just differences. ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Yahya
> >
> > (earlier:)
> > > > By the way, I am not 100 percent permissive about people
> > > > using Shaw's alphabet according to their regional accents. I
> > > > would find it difficult with certain Scottish or Irish
> > > > accents or the cockney accent.
> >
> > That's just bad luck, isn't it? I do my best to understand those
> > strange Americans, because I call them my friends. Isn't it just
simple
> > courtesy to allow that others ARE different? Respecting those
> > differences is not, unfortunately, given to everyone - but it's the
only
> > way true understaninding grows - not by trying to legislate
universal sameness.
> >

Regards,
Yahya