Shawalphabet YahooGroup Archive Browser

Hi Yahya
The font preference seems to be "Shaw Sans No. 2"
I know that is what I use when I am inserting Shaw text with the Yahoo, Rich-Text Editor.
Flipping back in forth between the HTML Source, is a touchy process.

^OkESxnxlI, F lUz H mesiJ YltxgeHD, & hAv t stRt OvD frum skratc+^
^HAts wF F lFk His kluJ+^

P.S. I use the plus sign as an impromptu stop sign. Like an icon of someone holding up his hand, to indicate wait, or hold it a second.

Regards, Paul V.
________________________attached_____________________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...> wrote:
> > Hi Yahya
> > Good to hear from you. Thanks for the feedback.
> > I was trying to pick sample words, that would work across the
> British,Australian,American divide. It is amazing how a little water
> > can throw such a big spanner, into everyday pronunciation.
> > So anyway, I will throw stew out of the sample list.
>
> Good!
>
> >
> > As the walrus said,
> > ^H tFm hAz kum t spIk v menI TiNz, v SUz & Sips & sIliN wAks, ^
> > ^v kAbaJiz & kiNz, ^
> > ^& wF duz H SYvWn Alfabet nId a fEs lift ^
> > ^P weHD it kMd Just dU, wiT sum nV ekspoSD in a nV mRkit.^
> > ^ V eS v E, fP eksAmpal^
>
> :)
>
> >
> > ^enI wE. t bI kantinVd^
> > regards, Paul V.
> > P.S. What is Gen`eve?
>
> That was supposed to be Genève, but my US-International keyboard (of
> Windows) was playing coy and gave way to the US keyboard (of Windows).
> Genève, is, I believe, the name in French of the city we call Geneva
> in English.
> > *********************attached*******************************
> > > > I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member
> > > communication, but as some members are still not comfortable, using
> the
> > > Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.
> > > >
> > > > We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^) in front
> of
> > > the word, or a caret at the beginning and end of a Shavian sentence.
> > >
> > > I think this a good idea - Yahya.
> > > >
> > > > Just to be sure everybody is [familiar] with the keyboard mapping
> let
> > > me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on the key pressed.
> If
> > > you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out the word or
> phrase
> > > and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.
> > >
> > > Just had a computer crash last week, so I'll have to reinstall.
> Which
> > > font do members prefer - Androcles?
>
> Any advice? (I've lost all the old messages on this topic.)
>
> > >
> > > > ^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
> > > > (*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a=schwa (as in ado)
> > > > b=b
> > > > c=ch
> > > > d=d
> > > > e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
> > > > f=f
> > > > g=g
> > > > h=h
> > > > i=i
> > > > j=y
> > > > k=k
> > > > l=l
> > > > m=m
> > > > n=n
> > > > o=o (as in on, James Bond)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > > * Y=aw (as in lawn)
> > > * y=ah (as in spa, drama)
> > > > p=p
> > > > q=oy (as in boy, toy)
> > > > r=r
> > > > s=s
> > > > t=t
> > > > u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
> > > > v=v
> > > > w=w
> > > > x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
> > > > y=ah
> > > > z=z
> > > > A=a (as in Ash)
> > > > B=
> > > > C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
> > > > D=er
> > > > E=ey (as in eight)
> > > > F=ay (as in Ivan)
> > > > G= Namer Dot
> > > > H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
> > > > I=ee
> > > > J=j
> > > > K=
> > > > L=
> > > > M=oo (as in look, good, book)
> > > > N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
> > > > O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
> > > > P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > > * P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > > > R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
> > > > S=sh
> > > > T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
> > > > U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > > > V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > > * V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, stew, cute)
> > > > W=ia (as in Shavian)
> > > > X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
> > > > Y=aw
> > > > Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, fusion, Genre, GiGi, garage))
> > > 1. Perhaps add: as in garage, fusion.
> > > 2. Disagree on including Geneva (but would add French je)
> > > > .=.
> > > > ,=,
> > > > /= Namer Dot
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if you see any typos.
> > > > regards, Paul V.
> > > > P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text
> soon,
> > > > using this format.
> > >
> > > These aren't typos, just differences. ;-)
> > > Regards,
> > > Yahya

It's 2010, not 1995, you should be able to use UTF-8 with a shavian keymap.

I condensed and cleaned up the Andagii unicode font to a tiny 8k download;
http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/fonts/Andagii.ttf?rev9173&view=log

GMail accounts are free for anyone who's email software is too old to
support UTF-8 encoding, or for that matter Ubuntu is also free and allows
you to use Shavian over much of your desktop now.

Hi all
For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles and the Lion.
It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the original distrubution included the United States.
Would there be any copywrite issues?
Would we have to make a deal with the British Trustees?
At what future date, would we no longer have to worry about copywrite issues?
Would we have to publish it in the States to get it into the Library of Congress and onto the Public Library catalogue?
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I can Americanize the spelling, if necessary.
___________________________attached______________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...> wrote:
> > Good to hear from you. Thanks for the feedback.
> > I was trying to pick sample words, that would work across the
> British,Australian,American divide. It is amazing how a little water
> > can throw such a big spanner, into everyday pronunciation.
> > So anyway, I will throw stew out of the sample list.
> > As the walrus said,
> > ^H tFm hAz kum t spIk v menI TiNz, v SUz & Sips & sIliN wAks, ^
> > ^v kAbaJiz & kiNz, ^
> > ^& wF duz H SYvWn Alfabet nId a fEs lift ^
> > ^P weHD it kMd Just dU, wiT sum nV ekspoSD in a nV mRkit.^
> > ^ V eS v E, fP eksAmpal^
> > ^enI wE. t bI kantinVd^
> > regards, Paul V.
> > P.S. What is Gen`eve?
>
> That was supposed to be Genève, but my US-International keyboard (of
> Windows) was playing coy and gave way to the US keyboard (of Windows).
> Genève, is, I believe, the name in French of the city we call Geneva
> in English.
> > *********************attached*******************************
> > I think we need to use Shavian Spelling more in inter-member
> > communication, but as some members are still not comfortable,
> > using the Rich Text Editor, let me suggest a kludge.
> > We can write Shavian spelled words by putting a caret (^)
> > in front of the word, or a caret at the beginning and
> > at the end of a Shavian sentence.
> > >
> > > I think this a good idea - Yahya.
> > > >
> > > > Just to be sure everybody is familiar with the keyboard
> > > > mapping let
> > > > me spell it out the Shavian character set, based on
> > > > the key pressed.
> > > > If you have a Shavian font installed, you could cut out
> > > > the word or
> phrase
> > > and see it in the Original Shavian Alphabet.
> > >
> > > Just had a computer crash last week, so I'll have to reinstall.
> Which
> > > font do members prefer - Androcles?
>
> Any advice? (I've lost all the old messages on this topic.)
>
> > >
> > > > ^but fP nQ, Fd just lFk t sI us rFtiN in H SQvWn Alfabet.^
> > > > (*But for now I'd like to see us writing in the Shavian Alphabet.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > a=schwa (as in ado)
> > > > b=b
> > > > c=ch
> > > > d=d
> > > > e=e (as in echo, end, any, etching)
> > > > f=f
> > > > g=g
> > > > h=h
> > > > i=i
> > > > j=y
> > > > k=k
> > > > l=l
> > > > m=m
> > > > n=n
> > > > o=o (as in on, James Bond)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > > * Y=aw (as in lawn)
> > > * y=ah (as in spa, drama)
> > > > p=p
> > > > q=oy (as in boy, toy)
> > > > r=r
> > > > s=s
> > > > t=t
> > > > u=u (as in up, undo, onion, oven)
> > > > v=v
> > > > w=w
> > > > x=air (as chair, stare, fair, tear, bear)
> > > > y=ah
> > > > z=z
> > > > A=a (as in Ash)
> > > > B=
> > > > C=eer (as in cheer, here, mere, eery, leer)
> > > > D=er
> > > > E=ey (as in eight)
> > > > F=ay (as in Ivan)
> > > > G= Namer Dot
> > > > H=TH (voiced as in the, that, those, father, other))
> > > > I=ee
> > > > J=j
> > > > K=
> > > > L=
> > > > M=oo (as in look, good, book)
> > > > N=ng (as in King, bank, bang, ring)
> > > > O=O (as in Oh, No, boat, coat, own)
> > > > P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * o=o (as in on, Bond, horrible)
> > > * P=or (as in more, door, sore)
> > > > R=ar (as in are, tar, far out)
> > > > S=sh
> > > > T=th (unvoiced as in thin, thanks, theory, thorn, thumb)
> > > > U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > > > V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, cute)
> > > In AusE (Australian English), that's:
> > > * U=OO (ooze, booze, too, blue, moon)
> > > * V=yoo (as in you, ewe, yew, stew, cute)
> > > > W=ia (as in Shavian)
> > > > X=ur (as in urge, earn, concur, Sir)
> > > > Y=aw
> > > > Z= Zs (as in Zsa Zsa Gabor, fusion, Genre, GiGi, garage))
> > > 1. Perhaps add: as in garage, fusion.
> > > 2. Disagree on including Geneva (but would add French je)
> > > > .=.
> > > > ,=,
> > > > /= Namer Dot
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if you see any typos.
> > > > regards, Paul V.
> > > > P.S. I will send another message with some embedded Shavian Text
> soon,
> > > > using this format.
> > >
> > > These aren't typos, just differences. ;-)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Yahya
> > >
> > > (earlier:)
> > > > > By the way, I am not 100 percent permissive about people
> > > > > using Shaw's alphabet according to their regional accents. I
> > > > > would find it difficult with certain Scottish or Irish
> > > > > accents or the cockney accent.
> > >
> > > That's just bad luck, isn't it? I do my best to understand those
> > > strange Americans, because I call them my friends. Isn't it just
> simple
> > > courtesy to allow that others ARE different? Respecting those
> > > differences is not, unfortunately, given to everyone - but it's the
> only
> > > way true understaninding grows - not by trying to legislate
> universal sameness.
> > >
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

On 3 March 2010 13:37, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:

> For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles
> and the Lion.
> It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of Androcles
> and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the original distrubution
> included the United States.
>

I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on Amazon
using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once you have a
PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would like to see
it.

I wonder whether we should include illustrations this time.


> Would there be any copywrite issues?
>

No. *Androcles* was published before 1923 and is in the public domain in
the United States. In addition, the Alphabet itself is explicitly in the
public domain.

Thomas

On 3 March 2010 15:25, Thomas Thurman <tthurman@...> wrote:

> On 3 March 2010 13:37, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:
>
>> For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles
>> and the Lion.
>> It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of
>> Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the original
>> distrubution included the United States.
>>
>
> I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on
> Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once you
> have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would like
> to see it.
>

I would also like to finish putting together the Shavian edition of
*Alice*that I've been planning for several months:

http://spectrum.myriadcolours.com/~marnanel/fury.png

I did also produce an edition of my children's book *Not Ordinarily
Borrowable*, as I mentioned earlier on this list, but I've never printed
it. Perhaps this would be a good moment to do so.

Thomas

My understanding was that all English librariers in the world were
supposed to receive a copy. I found a copy in the Louisville, Kentucky
library, which is how I learned about the alphabet.

p.s. - perhaps odd to mention it here, but the spelling is "copyright"
as it deals with "rights," not "writes."

Paige

On 3/3/2010 3:25 PM, Thomas Thurman wrote:
> On 3 March 2010 13:37, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...
> <mailto:vandenbrinkg@...>> wrote:
>
> For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of
> Androcles and the Lion.
> It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of
> Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the
> original distrubution included the United States.
>
>
> I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on
> Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace,
> once you have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if
> people would like to see it.
>
> I wonder whether we should include illustrations this time.
>
> Would there be any copywrite issues?
>
>
> No. /Androcles/ was published before 1923 and is in the public domain
> in the United States. In addition, the Alphabet itself is explicitly
> in the public domain.
>
> Thomas
>
>

I live in a rural county in Michigan. Even our county library had
a copy of Androcles back in 1968.

--Ph. D.


----- Original Message -----
From: pgabhart
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles



My understanding was that all English librariers in the world were supposed to receive a copy. I found a copy in the Louisville, Kentucky library, which is how I learned about the alphabet.

p.s. - perhaps odd to mention it here, but the spelling is "copyright" as it deals with "rights," not "writes."

Paige

On 3/3/2010 3:25 PM, Thomas Thurman wrote:


On 3 March 2010 13:37, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:

For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles and the Lion.
It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the original distrubution included the United States.


I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once you have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would like to see it.

I wonder whether we should include illustrations this time.

Would there be any copywrite issues?


No. Androcles was published before 1923 and is in the public domain in the United States. In addition, the Alphabet itself is explicitly in the public domain.

Thomas

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman wrote:
On 3 March 2010 13:37, Paul Vandenbrink wrote:
For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles
and the Lion.
It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of
Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the
original
distrubution included the United States.
I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on
Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once
you
have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would
like
to see it.
I would also like to finish putting together the Shavian edition of
*Alice*that I've been planning for several months:

http://spectrum.myriadcolours.com/~marnanel/fury.png

I did also produce an edition of my children's book *Not Ordinarily
Borrowable*, as I mentioned earlier on this list, but I've never printed
it. Perhaps this would be a good moment to do so.

Thomas and all,

It's a wonderful idea! - to not only produce a 50th-anniversary edition
of "Androcles", but also one of "Alice in Wonderland". It's this book,
more than any other historical favourite, which I feel will attracts to
Shavian, simply because it is so well-loved. And Thomas, in light of
your recent herculean efforts, it would indeed be fitting to publish one
of your own works simultaneously.

Some questions and ideas re "Alice":

1. Are the Tenniel illustrations also free of copyright? If so, it
would be wonderful to include them with the text.
2. How about publishing the two orthographies side-by-side? If
handled correctly - say by having the Shavian in a large, crisp and
easily-legible sans typeface, with the TO (traditional orthography)
facing in a much smaller serif typeface - it could become a very easy
way for people to learn to read Shavian. The goal of the presentation
would be to make it possible, yet not overly easy, to look up less
familiar characters in a well-known context.
3. Does your transcription of "Alice" include the sequel "Through the
Looking-Glass"? Many of peoples' favourite characters appear here,
rather than, as they suppose, in "Alice in Wonderland". If so,
including the two in an omnibus volume would be very satisfying.
4. Dodgson would probably have loved Shavian, and been pleased to see
his work promoting it. and it can hardly hurt to have the name "Lewis
Carroll" attracting others to investigate Shavian by association in the
major search engines. ;-)
5. How about including a prefatory chapter to teach the Shavian
alphabet simply, with examples in whatever usage you decide on, along
the lines of earlier messages in this thread?
6. Would your usage of Shavian follow your own, or Dodgson's, for
greater historical accuracy?
7. Since it's so easy to index a document in any modern
word-processor, would you add an index of characters? Ditto, an index
of first lines to poems?
8. Have you a favourite print-on-demand publisher? Another one to
consider, besides Lulu and CreateSpace, is Trafford, at trafford.com
<http://trafford.com> , which David Hartill used recently to publish
his great new numismatist's reference, "Cast Chinese Coins", also known
as "CCC". I was impressed with their speed and the quality of the work
they delivered to me last year.
Enough for now! ;-) Except to say, I commend your efforts, and will
certainly buy a copy of the first Shavian "Alice"!

Regards,
Yahya

Thomas,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman wrote:
I have a self-published children's book called "Not Ordinarily
Borrowable"; you can read about it at
http://borrowable.net <http://borrowable.net>
or
<http://borrowable.net%20or%20http://www.amazon.com/Not-Ordinarily-Borro\
wable/dp/1449517544>

<http://borrowable.net%20or%20http://www.amazon.com/Not-Ordinarily-Borro\
wable/dp/1449517544>
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Ordinarily-Borrowable/dp/1449517544
<http://borrowable.net%20or%20http://www.amazon.com/Not-Ordinarily-Borro\
wable/dp/1449517544> .
I'm vaguely considering a Shavian edition, either as a printed book or
as a free e-book. It's about 15,000 words; I'll be checking it myself,
but does anyone want to volunteer to proofread the transliteration?

I've missed any replies to your request. I'd be happy to volunteer to
proofread the transliteration. Just make sure you give me enough hints
as to your preferred pronunciations! ;-)

Regards,
Yahya

Hi Philip, Paul, et al,

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton wrote:
2010/2/1 pvandenbrink11 vandenbrinkg@...:
My favorite Conlang to speak is Loglan or its new incarnation Lojban.
It is too much trouble to create a Language from scratch, when there are
so many interesting languages to learn, already.
Why re-invent the wheel? I'd rather learn Klingon or Vulcan.

For people who consider conlangs works of art, your question is a bit
like saying, "There have been so many paintings made already - why
make any new ones? I'd rather just admire [insert a couple of
examples]."

For those who consider them tools, you're right, of course - we don't
need all that many differently-shaped wheels in the world.

So it depends on your viewpoint.
Exactly! ;-)

Regards,
Yahya
Share my music, paintings, equation art, and thoughts on books, online
at eSnips:
http://www.eSnips.com/user/Yahya <http://www.eSnips.com/user/Yahya>
Enjoy learning about Uiama, a conlang (constructed language) at:
http://conlang.pbworks.com/Uiama <http://conlang.pbworks.com/Uiama>