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Hi Thomas
I think it would be a great idea to provide a few other titles written in Shavian, to provide material for teaching the Alphabet to children and young adults.
Many kids like to learn something fun, without needing the assurances of practicality, that seem to bog down adult learners.

Still I think our primary focus should be to provide the 2010 quivalent of the Shaw Bi-alphabetic version of Androcles and the Lion in a General American accent for distribution to Libraries in U.S.A. and Canada. I suspect we will have to update the Preface and some of the notes, that came with the Bi-Alphabetic Edition.

Regards, Paul V.
P.S. I thought most publishers liked to work with Microsoft Word Documents?

________________________attached_________________________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman <tthurman@...> wrote:
> > For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles
> > and the Lion.
> > It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of
> > Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the original
> > distrubution included the United States.
> >
> >
> > I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on
> > Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once you
> > have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would like
> > to see it.
> >
> I would also like to finish putting together the Shavian edition of
> *Alice*that I've been planning for several months:
>
> http://spectrum.myriadcolours.com/~marnanel/fury.png
>
> I did also produce an edition of my children's book *Not Ordinarily
> Borrowable*, as I mentioned earlier on this list,
> but I've never printed
> it. Perhaps this would be a good moment to do so.

Hi Yahya
I like your suggestion in point 2,The goal of the presentation of the Shavian and Roman Alphabet text should be to make it possible, yet not overly easy, to look up less familiar Shavian characters in the more well-known context of their Roman Spelling.
I would like the Shavian print to be larger with a line number in brackets at the end of the line at the edge of the page.
And then at the bottom of the page in a much smaller font, the equivalent lines in the Roman Alphabet. The line numbers would allow the reader to easily find any troublesome word, in the Roman spelling, but the fine print would dissuade the reader, from not making an attempt to puzzle out the meaning of the Shavian Spelling.
Under the Roman Transliteration, you could have a line or 2 of footnotes for stage directions, or to set the scene or to explain the story. More detailed explanations of Historical Points can directed from the footnotes to a chapter of small essays after the Basic script of the play.
The presentation of the the Shavian Text should especially empathasize the words of the actors and minimize stage directions which can detract from the flow of the story.

Regards, Paul V.

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Thurman wrote:
> On 3 March 2010 13:37, Paul Vandenbrink wrote:
> For the 50th anniversary of the publishing and distribution of Androcles
> and the Lion.
> It might be an idea to re-publishing and distribute new copies of
> Androcles and the Lion, for an American Audience. I doubt if the
> original
> distrubution included the United States.
> I think that would be an excellent idea. It's simple to get books on
> Amazon using print-on-demand publishers like Lulu and CreateSpace, once
> you
> have a PDF of the contents. I can put a PDF together if people would
> like
> to see it.
> I would also like to finish putting together the Shavian edition of
> *Alice*that I've been planning for several months:
>
> http://spectrum.myriadcolours.com/~marnanel/fury.png
>
> I did also produce an edition of my children's book *Not Ordinarily
> Borrowable*, as I mentioned earlier on this list, but I've never printed
> it. Perhaps this would be a good moment to do so.
>
> Thomas and all,
>
> It's a wonderful idea! - to not only produce a 50th-anniversary edition
> of "Androcles", but also one of "Alice in Wonderland". It's this book,
> more than any other historical favourite, which I feel will attracts to
> Shavian, simply because it is so well-loved. And Thomas, in light of
> your recent herculean efforts, it would indeed be fitting to publish one
> of your own works simultaneously.
>
> Some questions and ideas re "Alice":
>
> 1. Are the Tenniel illustrations also free of copyright? If so, it
> would be wonderful to include them with the text.
> 2. How about publishing the two orthographies side-by-side? If
> handled correctly - say by having the Shavian in a large, crisp and
> easily-legible sans typeface, with the TO (traditional orthography)
> facing in a much smaller serif typeface - it could become a very easy
> way for people to learn to read Shavian. The goal of the presentation
> would be to make it possible, yet not overly easy, to look up less
> familiar characters in a well-known context.
> 3. Does your transcription of "Alice" include the sequel "Through the
> Looking-Glass"? Many of peoples' favourite characters appear here,
> rather than, as they suppose, in "Alice in Wonderland". If so,
> including the two in an omnibus volume would be very satisfying.
> 4. Dodgson would probably have loved Shavian, and been pleased to see
> his work promoting it. and it can hardly hurt to have the name "Lewis
> Carroll" attracting others to investigate Shavian by association in the
> major search engines. ;-)
> 5. How about including a prefatory chapter to teach the Shavian
> alphabet simply, with examples in whatever usage you decide on, along
> the lines of earlier messages in this thread?
> 6. Would your usage of Shavian follow your own, or Dodgson's, for
> greater historical accuracy?
> 7. Since it's so easy to index a document in any modern
> word-processor, would you add an index of characters? Ditto, an index
> of first lines to poems?
> 8. Have you a favourite print-on-demand publisher? Another one to
> consider, besides Lulu and CreateSpace, is Trafford, at trafford.com
> <http://trafford.com> , which David Hartill used recently to publish
> his great new numismatist's reference, "Cast Chinese Coins", also known
> as "CCC". I was impressed with their speed and the quality of the work
> they delivered to me last year.
> Enough for now! ;-) Except to say, I commend your efforts, and will
> certainly buy a copy of the first Shavian "Alice"!
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>

Hi Thomas
Over the years, there have been a number of projects to transliterate
books, verses and famous passages into Shavian.
I did the first couple chapters of Huckleberry Finn.
Most were never completed, but a number of works were
completed. Hugh B.id a lot of work on his site, for example.
We need to assemble and store these texts in one location,
all of these works in progress.
I am going to check through the group files and see what I can find.

Regards, Paul V.
_________________________________attached_____________________________

Has anyone got any lengthy written material that could be transliterated
into Shavian? Right now I'm a bit short of it, and my site is hungry for
more...

If so, please send it my way and I'll give it a shot.

Thanks, Hugh B.

please remove me from your email list

--- On Mon, 3/8/10, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...> wrote:


From: pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@gmail.com>
Subject: [shawalphabet] Material to Transliterate
To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 1:30 PM


 



Hi Thomas
Over the years, there have been a number of projects to transliterate
books, verses and famous passages into Shavian.
I did the first couple chapters of Huckleberry Finn.
Most were never completed, but a number of works were
completed. Hugh B.id a lot of work on his site, for example.
We need to assemble and store these texts in one location,
all of these works in progress.
I am going to check through the group files and see what I can find.

Regards, Paul V.
____________ _________ _________ ___attached_ _________ _________ _________ _

Has anyone got any lengthy written material that could be transliterated
into Shavian? Right now I'm a bit short of it, and my site is hungry for
more...

If so, please send it my way and I'll give it a shot.

Thanks, Hugh B.

You have to remove yourself via the group preferences at http://groups.yahoo.com

==========
"If you mess with a thing long enough, it'll break."
--Murphy's Laws of Combat.


My LJ: http://wodentoad.livejournal.com
Or: http://community.livejournal.com/housewyfs_home/


>
>From: Peter Zahendra <zahendra@...>
>To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 5:26:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Material to Transliterate
>
> >
>>
>
>please remove me from your email list
>
>--- On Mon, 3/8/10, pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>From: pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@ gmail.com>
>>Subject: [shawalphabet] Material to Transliterate
>>To: shawalphabet@ yahoogroups. com
>>Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 1:30 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Thomas
>>Over the years, there have been a number of projects to transliterate
>>books, verses and famous passages into Shavian.
>>I did the first couple chapters of Huckleberry Finn.
>>Most were never completed, but a number of works were
>>completed. Hugh B.id a lot of work on his site, for example.
>>We need to assemble and store these texts in one location,
>>all of these works in progress.
>>I am going to check through the group files and see what I can find.
>>
>>Regards, Paul V.
>>____________ _________ _________ ___attached_ _________ _________ _________ _
>>
>>Has anyone got any lengthy written material that could be transliterated
>>into Shavian? Right now I'm a bit short of it, and my site is hungry for
>>more...
>>
>>If so, please send it my way and I'll give it a shot.
>>
>>Thanks, Hugh B.
>>
>>
>

Rather than answer all the questions individually, I have started a new
thread. Feel free to comment on any of these.

1. I have a full translation of both *Alice's Adventures in Wonderland*and
*Alice through the Looking Glass*.
2. I intend to print and self-publish both of them sometime this year in
a single volume.
3. I don't know whether hardback or paperback would be better.
4. However, I am in the middle of a contract to write a technical book
(in the conventional alphabet!) and don't have a lot of spare time right at
the moment. So the project has been delayed by a few months.
5. Tenniel's illustrations are out of copyright, and I intend to use
them.
6. I have written a preface explaining the Alphabet, which I intend to
add. It's a printed form of my "Gentle Introduction to Shavian", from
http://shavian.org.uk/learn/ .
7. The Shavian version of *Not Ordinarily Borrowable* already has this
preface.
8. Ordinary publishers do like .doc, it's true, but if you self-publish
you have to provide .pdf because it doesn't need to be edited before it's
sent to the press.
9. I was originally planning to do the *Alice* work in OpenOffice, but I
don't think it can handle what's needed for some of the fancier illustration
work.
10. I am now planning to do the work in TeX. This will require a little
rewriting of the scripts which I used to produce the OpenOffice version.
11. Here is a chapter from the version I was setting up in OpenOffice:
http://shavian.org.uk/pdf/alice/ch01.pdf
12. You see that I decided to do an interlinear version with two columns,
one for each alphabet, rather than on facing pages as in *Androcles*. It
works, but I'm not certain this was the best idea.

peace,

Thomas

I'm also working on a "learning curve" translation, basically, over the course of 20 chapters of a public work, introducing one pair at a time in my best Mid-West Journalist's voice. Unfortunately, like you, I'm swamped by work at the moment. Looking at working on it some this summer.

--Star

==========
"If you mess with a thing long enough, it'll break."
--Murphy's Laws of Combat.


My LJ: http://wodentoad.livejournal.com
Or: http://community.livejournal.com/housewyfs_home/


>
>From: Thomas Thurman <tthurman@...>
>To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 8:03:34 PM
>Subject: [shawalphabet] Alice in Shavian
>
> >
>>
>
>Rather than answer all the questions individually, I have started a new thread. Feel free to comment on any of these.
>
> 1. I have a full translation of both Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Alice through the Looking Glass.
> 2. I intend to print and self-publish both of them sometime this year in a single volume.
> 3. I don't know whether hardback or paperback would be better.
> 4. However, I am in the middle of a contract to write a technical book (in the conventional alphabet!) and don't have a lot of spare time right at the moment. So the project has been delayed by a few months.
> 5. Tenniel's illustrations are out of copyright, and I intend to use them.
> 6. I have written a preface explaining the Alphabet, which I intend to add. It's a printed form of my "Gentle Introduction to Shavian", from http://shavian. org.uk/learn/ .
> 7. The Shavian version of Not Ordinarily Borrowable already has this preface.
>
> 8. Ordinary publishers do like .doc, it's true, but if you self-publish you have to provide .pdf because it doesn't need to be edited before it's sent to the press.
>
> 9. I was originally planning to do the Alice work in OpenOffice, but I don't think it can handle what's needed for some of the fancier illustration work.
> 10. I am now planning to do the work in TeX. This will require a little rewriting of the scripts which I used to produce the OpenOffice version.
>
> 11. Here is a chapter from the version I was setting up in OpenOffice: http://shavian. org.uk/pdf/ alice/ch01. pdf
> 12. You see that I decided to do an interlinear version with two columns, one for each alphabet, rather than on facing pages as in Androcles. It works, but I'm not certain this was the best idea.peace,
>
>Thomas
>
>

Hi Peter
I will stop E-Mail's from the Forum to your address, for the time being. Get in touch, when you want them restarted.
Regards, Paul V.
P.S. www.shavian.org seems to non-responsive. Anyone know what the problem is?
______________________attached____________________________________
> You should remove yourself via the group preferences at http://groups.yahoo.com
>
> ==========
> "If you mess with a thing long enough, it'll break."
> --Murphy's Laws of Combat.
>
>
> My LJ: http://wodentoad.livejournal.com
> Or: http://community.livejournal.com/housewyfs_home/
>
>
> >
> >From: Peter Zahendra <zahendra@...>
> >To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 5:26:33 PM
> >Subject: Re: [shawalphabet] Material to Transliterate
> >please remove me from your email list

2010/3/10 pvandenbrink11 <vandenbrinkg@...>:
> P.S. www.shavian.org seems to non-responsive. Anyone know what the problem is?

No idea. I can't connect to the host via ssh, either; perhaps it's down?

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>

The interlinear edition of *Androcles* had Shavian on the left-hand pages
and the conventional alphabet on the right.

The version of *Alice* I was working on had two columns on each page, with
Shavian on the left and the conventional alphabet on the right.

When I do the printed edition of *Alice*, which would be a better layout,
from the reader's point of view? Or should I just write the whole thing in
Shavian and not bother with interlinearity?

Don't worry about which will be easier for me to implement: there are ways
of doing both.

peace,

Thomas