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--- Paige Gabhart confessed:
>
> I have always (somewhat) lamented our loss of the wigs and robes,
which
> our English brethren still persist in wearing.

Were they ever used in America?
Yours etc.,Rumpole of the Old Bailey

Oh that our political discourse on the west side of the pond could be waged with such rapiered dissection. What's not to love about this guy? You get my vote!

herbmoran@...



On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:39 PM, dshepx wrote:

>
>
>
> --- Star Raven continues:
>
> > BUT there's a problem with this. Even had a clerical error
> been made, the book doesn't go to print the moment they
> receive the manuscript. It has to be proofed and signed off
> on. The "bones" in this case, would be the author's proof
> copy, which, if it were incorrect, would have been noted.
> This is something that the translator would have had to
> look at. Surely someone who had written it out a few
> hundred times would be familiar enough with it that he
> would have spotted the reversal on the first page. Taking
> the publishing industry into account, I can't believe a
> clerical error of that magnitude could have been made
> without being caught by someone, somewhere along the
> pre-publication line.
> >
> > Alternately, perhaps the error was made during the
> initial printing of the winning alphabet that was sent to
> the transliterator. Again, did no one double check this?
>
> You presume that this was a normal publishing venture
> carried out in the normal way; it was not. Firstly, Shaw's
> will was successively challenged in court with the result
> that the money intended for this purpose went to the other
> beneficiaries. Because James Pitman was an MP he was
> able together with an interesting and persuasive person
> named Barbara Smoker to wheedle and wrangle a pittance
> to hold the competition. Then there was a period of in-
> decision, infighting, and confusion amongst the committee
> assembled to produce the book, the publisher, and the
> court-appointed Public Trustee, resulting in the not-easily
> dissuaded Ms Smoker's abrupt departure in disgust. As
> she had played a key-role, perhaps more than anyone else
> in getting the dual-language edition of 'Androcles' started
> (plans to also publish some of Shaw's other plays had to
> be scrapped), Pitman's busy involvement in his political
> career, and the removal of the transliterator Peter Mac-
> Carthy to a university post in Pakistan, there was really
> no one with ample time to see the project through and it
> suffered thereafter. It is a wonder that it appeared at all.
>
> The small competition prize was divided amongst the
> four winners, and it isn't clear that Kingsley Read received
> anything additional for preparing his entry for final publi-
> cation. We may fairly assume he had a day job that other-
> wise took up his time. Hardbound copies were to be distri-
> buted free to the libraries of the world and the paperbacks
> were sold, such as them that were, for 2/6. There was no
> money left over for proof-reading, checking, correcting or
> any other support activity and the publisher, Penguin, did
> not volunteer its services.
>
> So if a mishap occurred, and there is always the possi-
> bility of that happening, no one was in a position to main-
> tain adequate control and vigilance, or any vigilance at all
> except in their free time.
>
> So, that hints at what might have happened, and could have
> happened--a mishap, an accident. an oversight somewhere
> in the process of publication. Whether it did or not we shall
> never know. But now I am going to call down your wrath
> even further by asserting that it doesn't really matter. It is
> a flaw in my in-this-case-less-than humble opinion that there
> is an exception to the established, clear, rational order that
> distinguishes voiced from unvoiced consonants, whether
> intentional or not, and that this flaw is allowed to stand.
> Why set up a system only to mock it? Similarly, two of the
> compounds were transposed, or more likely I suspect in
> both cases the identifying keywords were mixed up, unless
> the designer had for some odd reason deliberately chosen
> the less-likely explanation for their construction. Why would
> he do that?
>
> There is a test that can perhaps usefully be applied here,
> a version of Popper's refutability assertion: assume for a
> moment that all tall letters were originally in fact unvoiced,
> all deep letters voiced; moreover that all compounds were
> made up of the simplest and most obvious way of combining
> their components. Assume this was the original condition.
> Would anyone then object? What would you object about?
> The thought would never occur.
>
> Interestingly, some of you will admit (or not deny) the
> possibility of the second mishap but not the first. But if one
> can occur then two could.
>
> You may now explode,
> dshep
>
>
>
>

--- AJT kindly remarks:

> ... You get my vote!
>
> herbmoran@...

Thank you.
The usual response I receive is the encouragement to goplay in some
other sandbox.
dshep

On 12/6/11, Michael Everson wrote:

[...]

> Well, I do hope to publish Alice in Shavian next year. Though I'd
> still like to know if anyone is concerned about the fonts I am
> using.

I am always interested in fonts, and I think the Shavian alphabet
still wants a good font suited to its specific design.

In my opinion, its specific features are spacing and x-height. Both
are inadequate if one takes them from an encompassing English
font. Especially the narrow English spacing of 0.3em (normal German is
0.4em, normal Russian is 0.5em). Probably the ordinary English
spacing is helped by the medieval word-terminators (y instead of i, w
replacing u) -- but Shavian does not have such a feature.

Maybe an appropriate kerning could help; but no Shavian font seem to
have it.

So, a monospaced font seems to be the simplest solution. I've
experimented with the John Starling's adaptation of Shavian to
Esperanto (only 28 letters); a specimen poem ("Mia penso" by
L.L. Zamenhof) is here:
http://www.pok.heliohost.org/eo/tools/Sxava/mia_penso-hacker.png
I am no expert in font design, that's just a quick experiment in
the primitive BDF format.

(I used serifs to hint about the x-height, and made the letters more
quadratic, to give them some substance; unexpectedly for me, that
produced somewhat Hebrew flavor, even though there no serifs in
Hebrew.)

--
Sergio

Recommended

𐑐𐑷𐑮 𐑧𐑯𐑦𐑢𐑳𐑯 𐑢𐑦𐑞 𐑨𐑯 𐑦𐑯𐑑𐑮𐑧𐑕𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑳𐑯𐑿𐑠𐑵𐑩𐑤 𐑛𐑦𐑕𐑐𐑤𐑱𐑟 𐑪𐑚 𐑦𐑯𐑡𐑩𐑯𐑵𐑩𐑑𐑦

I hope everyone has survived the holidays intact, and solvent.
If so, perhaps there would be some curiosity available to inspect
a light-hearted, general introduction to a subject that can attract
intense effort, as revealed in:

In the Land of Invented Languages
by Arika Okrent

now available in inexpensive paperback.

It has become the fashion in the publishing industry nowadays
to always supply a sub-title to provide the potential customer
with a clue to contents, and the sub-title of this book is:

Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets, Loglan Lovers and the Mad
Dreamers Who Tried to Build a Perfect Language

So there, have fun--
dshep

𐑑𐑧𐑕𐑑 test test test test
ɑ ɐ ɒ ɛ ɜ ə ɚ i ɪ ɨ ı ɔ ʊ ɷ ʚ
ϸ đ ʧ č ʤ ǰ ŋ ɹ ʃ ʍ ʒ ƕ š ž
t∂

Another good book is The Search for the Perfect Language by Umberto Eco (yes, the same!), published by Blackwell Publishing.
B. J. de Berzsenyi

To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
From: david@sheppard.se
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 11:22:09 +0100
Subject: [shawalphabet] recommended reading




























Recommended
𐑐𐑷𐑮 𐑧𐑯𐑦𐑢𐑳𐑯 𐑢𐑦𐑞 𐑨𐑯 𐑦𐑯𐑑𐑮𐑧𐑕𐑑 𐑦𐑯 𐑳𐑯𐑿𐑠𐑵𐑩𐑤 𐑛𐑦𐑕𐑐𐑤𐑱𐑟 𐑪𐑚 𐑦𐑯𐑡𐑩𐑯𐑵𐑩𐑑𐑦
I hope everyone has survived the holidays intact, and solvent. If so, perhaps there would be some curiosity available to inspect a light-hearted, general introduction to a subject that can attract intense effort, as revealed in:
In the Land of Invented Languagesby Arika Okrent
now available in inexpensive paperback.
It has become the fashion in the publishing industry nowadays to always supply a sub-title to provide the potential customer with a clue to contents, and the sub-title of this book is:
Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets, Loglan Lovers and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build a Perfect Language
So there, have fun--dshep
𐑑𐑧𐑕𐑑 test test test test ɑ ɐ ɒ ɛ ɜ ə ɚ i ɪ ɨ ı ɔ ʊ ɷ ʚ ϸ đ ʧ č ʤ ǰ ŋ ɹ ʃ ʍ ʒ ƕ š žt∂

re: recommended reading

The Smiths write:

>Another good book is The Search for the Perfect Language by
Umberto Eco (yes, the same!), published by Blackwell Publishing.<

>B. J. de Berzseny<

Eco's book is probably a more serious investigation into the subject.
I bought a copy several years ago but have only managed to misplace
it somewhere. I even managed to meet him shortly before Christmas
at a lecture and book-signing event. He struck me as a very pleasant
and totally unpretentious person. If you would care to write something
about his views on the subject I'm sure it would be appreciated.

There is I would think some overlap between the impulse to create a
universal language equally accessible to all, free from the particular
demands of national origins (which may not be possible), and the
desire for an alphabet that offers all speakers of English, regardless
of dialect or accent, whether social or geographical, equal access to
(as I believe Shaw's ambition could be interpreted) and unhindered
ease in the use of our language (this may not be possible either).

Meanwhile,

𐑩 𐑒𐑢𐑴𐑑 𐑩𐑑𐑮𐑦𐑚𐑘𐑵𐑑𐑩𐑛 𐑑𐑵 ‧𐑤𐑰𐑴𐑯𐑭𐑮𐑛𐑴 ‧𐑛𐑩 ‧𐑝𐑦𐑯𐑗𐑦 𐑓𐑬𐑯𐑛
𐑦𐑯 ‧𐑢𐑪𐑤𐑑𐑼 ‧𐑲𐑟𐑧𐑒𐑕𐑩𐑯'𐑟 𐑚𐑲𐑪𐑜𐑮𐑩𐑓𐑦 𐑪𐑝 ‧𐑕𐑑𐑰𐑝 ‧𐑡𐑪𐑚𐑟:

"𐑕𐑦𐑥𐑐𐑤𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑑𐑦 𐑦𐑟 𐑞𐑰 𐑳𐑤𐑑𐑦𐑥𐑩𐑑 𐑕𐑩𐑓𐑦𐑕𐑑𐑦𐑒𐑱𐑖𐑩𐑯.

(emphatic 'the'!)

Something that might well apply to many aspects of life, or...?

dshep
ă â ā ă ȧ ǎ ä ả ȃ ạ ḁ ǫ ǭ ɔ œ ʊ ə
ð þ ʒ ŋ č ǰ š ž

A few more expressions, some of them quotes--some
(mostly optimistic) from, some (often negative) about,
and some by others (of a philosophical nature) but
quoted by the principal himself, all perhaps of some
interest and which appeared in Walter Isaacson's
biography of Steve Jobs, expressions that in their small
way could, in part, possibly illustrate the process, or
circumstances, which gave us the iMac, the iPod, the
iPhone, and the iPad. Whether or not one is susceptible
to the enthusiasm displayed by loyal fans, it is difficult
to deny Apple's innovative accomplishments and the
effect they have had upon their market.

Be warned!: 𐑙 = h, 𐑣 = ng; 𐑻= ere/ær, 𐑺 = err/ur

Working procedure:
𐑧𐑥𐑚𐑮𐑱𐑕 𐑳𐑯𐑕𐑺𐑑𐑩𐑯𐑑𐑦

The insight:
𐑐𐑰𐑐𐑩𐑤 𐑙𐑵 𐑸 𐑒𐑮𐑱𐑟𐑦 𐑩𐑯𐑳𐑓 𐑑𐑵 𐑔𐑰𐑯𐑒 𐑞𐑱 𐑒𐑨𐑯
𐑗𐑱𐑯𐑡 𐑞𐑩 𐑢𐑺𐑤𐑛 𐑸 𐑞𐑩 𐑢𐑳𐑯𐑟 𐑙𐑵 𐑛𐑵 𐑦𐑑

The challenge:
𐑞𐑩 𐑡𐑪𐑚 𐑪𐑝 𐑸𐑑 𐑦𐑟 𐑑𐑵 𐑗𐑱𐑕 𐑳𐑜𐑤𐑦𐑯𐑧𐑕 𐑩𐑢𐑱

A general principle:
𐑤𐑧𐑕 𐑚𐑳𐑑 𐑚𐑧𐑑𐑼

A goal:
𐑑𐑵 𐑓𐑳𐑯𐑖𐑩𐑯 𐑨𐑟 𐑩 𐑿𐑯𐑩𐑝𐑺𐑕𐑩𐑤 𐑛𐑦𐑡𐑩𐑑𐑩𐑤 𐑙𐑳𐑚

A recurring problem:
𐑨 𐑮𐑰𐑨𐑤𐑦𐑑𐑦 𐑛𐑩𐑕𐑑𐑹𐑖𐑩𐑯 𐑓𐑾𐑤𐑛

Another problem:
𐑨 𐑯𐑸𐑕𐑦𐑕𐑦𐑕𐑑𐑦𐑒 𐑐𐑺𐑕𐑩𐑯𐑨𐑤𐑦𐑑𐑦 𐑛𐑦𐑕𐑹𐑛𐑼

the innovator's dilemma:
𐑐𐑰𐑐𐑩𐑤 𐑙𐑵 𐑦𐑯𐑝𐑧𐑯𐑑 𐑕𐑳𐑥𐑔𐑦𐑣 𐑸 𐑷𐑓𐑩𐑯 𐑳𐑯𐑱𐑚𐑩𐑤
𐑑𐑵 𐑕𐑰 𐑚𐑩𐑘𐑪𐑯𐑛 𐑦𐑑

A little Zen guidance:
𐑞𐑩 𐑡𐑺𐑯𐑦 𐑦𐑟 𐑞𐑩 𐑮𐑩𐑢𐑹𐑛

Office practice:
𐑛𐑰𐑐 𐑒𐑩𐑤𐑨𐑚𐑩𐑮𐑱𐑖𐑩𐑯

The overall ambition:
𐑞𐑩 𐑒𐑪𐑯𐑓𐑤𐑫𐑩𐑯𐑕 𐑪𐑝 𐑸𐑑𐑦𐑕𐑑𐑮𐑦 𐑨𐑯𐑛 𐑑𐑧𐑒𐑯𐑪𐑤𐑩𐑡𐑦

Through one, the other:
𐑕𐑰𐑥𐑤𐑧𐑕 𐑦𐑯𐑑𐑩𐑜𐑮𐑖𐑩𐑯, 𐑕𐑰𐑥𐑤𐑧𐑕 𐑿𐑟𐑼 𐑧𐑒𐑕𐑐𐑾𐑯𐑕

A working principle:
𐑦𐑑 𐑕 𐑯𐑴𐑑 𐑩 𐑡𐑪𐑝, 𐑦𐑑 𐑕 𐑬𐑮 𐑤𐑲𐑓

and of course,
𐑦𐑯𐑕𐑱𐑯𐑤𐑦 𐑜𐑮𐑱𐑑


I regret that my reversal of a few letters will
inevitably generate distress and annoyance,
dshep

test
.....

Mystery (at least for me)

For reasons beyond my ken, whenever I submit
anything written in Shavian letters, no spaces
between words appear in the e-mail digest sent
out. They do however appear as intended in the
shawalphabet@yahoogroups home page.

Example:
𐑩𐑐𐑨𐑮𐑩𐑯𐑑 𐑕𐑦𐑥𐑐𐑤𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑑𐑦 𐑮𐑩𐑒𐑢𐑲𐑮𐑟 𐑒𐑩𐑯𐑕𐑦𐑛𐑩𐑮𐑩𐑚𐑩𐑤 𐑧𐑓𐑺𐑑


Bewildered,
dshep

> test

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 01:25, dsh <david@sheppard.se> wrote:
>
> Mystery (at least for me)
>
> For reasons beyond my ken, whenever I submit
> anything written in Shavian letters, no spaces
> between words appear in the e-mail digest sent
> out. They do however appear as intended in the
> shawalphabet@yahoogroups home page.
>
> Example:
>
> 𐑩𐑐𐑨𐑮𐑩𐑯𐑑  𐑕𐑦𐑥𐑐𐑤𐑦𐑕𐑩𐑑𐑦  𐑮𐑩𐑒𐑢𐑲𐑮𐑟  𐑒𐑩𐑯𐑕𐑦𐑛𐑩𐑮𐑩𐑚𐑩𐑤  𐑧𐑓𐑺𐑑

I do see spaces between words, but they're a bit difficult to make out
since the font that my browser uses for Shavian text (I use Gmail over
the web to read the messages) is fairly widely spaced already.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>