Hi Star
I sort of agree with you but
I think the problem is more with the limitations of
the standard QWERTY Computer Keyboard than with the mapping.
I think that it's surprizing that Romanji works as well as it does.
Regards, Paul V.
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, Star Raven
<celestraof12worlds@y...> wrote:
> Have I mentioned yet this week that I hate Romanji? (aka the
original
> layout for shavian?") I have always considered that when typing a
> different language, that it should have the same ease of typing, but
> should not be connected with the original. Otherwise, it can cross
wire
> the brain into mixing up the symbols. Besides, you don't want that
> layout to stick but one that makes more sense.
>
> Maybe it's just me and my weekly grouse.
> --Star
>
> --- stbetta@a... wrote:
>
> > Paul and Jerry,
> >
> > It is not easier to type Shavian than Roman since you have to
> > keyhboard it in
> > ASCII.
> > Shavian has monoline letterforms, so it is generally faster to
> > handwrite.
> >
> > Shavian is not the easiest phonemic writing system to type since
it
> > includes
> > combinations that are accessed with arbitrary and not always
> > intuitive
> > keyboard keys.
> >
> > Keyboard Shavian uses the Latin front vowels E & I rather than
the
> > shifted A
> > E.
> > No problem if you are familiar with IPA but otherwise a little
> > difficult.
> >
> > Rather than sticking with IPA and using aI for "eye", The Shavian
> > font
> > assigns this diphthong to F. F might make sense as a keyboard
> > assignment in PMF
> > because ah=c which is stacked on top of an I. This makes the
> > diphthong character
> > look something like an F. Some of the keyboard assignments are
based
> > on such
> > shape analogies.
> >
> > This is probably my main critique of the keyboard assignments.
When
> > you have
> > one symbol per sound, there is no need in to add arbitrary symbols
> > for
> > combinations.
> >
> > Unifon does the same thing with /oi/ and /aU/. Both systems
assign
> > the
> > redundant q to these sounds but they reverse them. cowboy = kqbQ
in
> > Unifon and
> > kQbq in Shavian.
> >
> > In ENgliS it is kowboy, In AF and Webster, kauboi. Either
solution
> > would be
> > easier to remember for tradspel adepts than kqbQ. The only
phonemes
> > that need
> > to be represented in an orthography are the 36 uncombined ones.
This
> > has the
> > added benefit of reducing the memory load and arbitrary
assigments.
> >
> >
> > The merry/marry problem is not solved by a phonemic notation.
> > In General American, the population is evenly split between those
who
> > recognize the difference and those who merge the two sounds.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Jerry
> > We have a simple way to write the Shavian Letters. You don't have
to
> > use any special Accent marks, umlauts, tildes, cedillas or even
> > diagraphs (letter pairs).
> >
> > You just type the regular Alphabet keys in the Shaw Font, and
like
> > magic up come the Shaw Letters instead of the Roman Letter.
> > Obviously, the 26 Roman letters are not enough to represent all
48 of
> >
> > the Shaw Letters, but it represents the most commonly used
letters.
> > Isn't that easy. You just have set your Default Font to the Shaw
> > Font.
> > I will explain that later.
> > The whole point of Shavian is to make writing and typing too
easier
> > than with the Roman Letters.
> > Now as the remaining 22 Shaw letters we simply use the upper case
of
> > the Roman letters to shift into an alternate Keyboard for the
other
> > 22 letters. You use the Shift all the time for Capital letters in
the
> >
> > Roman Alphabet so again it isn't a stretch. The Shaw Alphabet
uses a
> > Namer dot instead of a Capital letter anyway, so the Shaw
Alphabet
> > didn't need the upper case, per se.
> >
> > We try and make it as logical as possible, So in some cases an
> > arbritary Roman Capital Letter like "R" represents the Shaw
> > letter "Are", but sometimes it isn't so Obvious. For example, we
> > use "D" for "array" and "F" for "ice".
> > "n" represents "Noon" and "N" represents "Hung"
> > Until you know how the Shaw Keyboard maps on top of the regular
Roman
> >
> > Keyboard, it might be helpful to see everything in its equivalent
> > Roman letters, anyway. Take a look the SHaw Chat Forum and see if
you
> >
> > can make some sense of it all.
> > I'll provide a full description of which Shaw letter each key on
the
> >
> > QWERTY Keyboard represents on my next post.
> > Let me know if you any other questions on the way the Keyboard
works.
> >
> > Regards, Paul V.
> >
> > --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, gerald baker
<glbaker50613@y...>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I haven't figured out how to type Shaw-Script on a qwerty
keyboard,
> >
> > or how Andrew Callaway's phonetic translator might work. The
> > computers I use don't have umlauts, tildes, cedillas, hacheks,
nnn.
> > >
> > > I think the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer used to
write
> > personal memos in English to confuse possible burglars. (In his
day,
> > even German handwriting was done in
> > > a "Gothic" script. I can read Gothic-lettered printed German,
but
> > not Gothic-lettered handwriting, which I occasionally find in old
> > correspondence.)
> > >
> > > When I write Shavian, I distinguish between my pronunciations
> > of "ours" and "hours," just as you do with yours.
> > >
> > > I see that your group seems to pronounce the first syllable
> > of "Shavian" as "shave." I've always thought it rhyme
with "Slav,"
> > rather than with either "slave" or "slawv." Shaw, himself, used
the
> > word in at least one of his prefaces (to a play), and I supposed
that
> >
> > Shaw might have pronounced it that way.
> > >
> > > However, I once knew a man named "Olvin Amundson," who
occasionally
> >
> > pronounced his Norwegian surname "Amos-son," because he'd heard
so
> > many people do that.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > > paul vandenbrink <pvandenbrink@s...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Jerry
> > > Thanks for the information. It tends to confirm my supposition
that
> >
> > > most Americans who were successful in making good use of the
Shaw
> > > Alphabet (i.e. writing) had some Phonetics background or were
> > > intimately familar with British English Pronunciation.
> > >
> > > I, myself just happened to pick up a 2d hand copy of the Bi-
> > > Alphabetic copy of "Androcles and the Lion" in an old book-
store
> > > in Calgary back in 1971. It was an Orange Penguin Paperback. I
was
> > a
> > > fan of the Plays of GBS, so I attempted to read it. Certain
sound
> > > distinction that it made, I did not immediately pick up on. But
> > over
> > > the years, I gradually learned to distinguish all the different
> > > Phonemes, except for Ah and On. Those two sounds really don't
sound
> >
> > > different to me, so I generally just use the letter "ah". But
it
> > took me 2 years to reach that level of competence. Luckily, I
took a
> > basic Linguistics at the University of Calgary, in 1972 and that
> > clarified
> > > most of English Phonetic sounds. Most the course was on English
> > > Phonetics. I ended up using a subset of the Shaw Alphabet as my
> > > personal Shorthand, for many years. Some things only became
crystal
> >
> > > clear when I finally talked to the people here at the forum.
> > >
> > > Pronunciation is little more old fashioned in Western Canada.
We
> > have a lot of expatriate Americans, so I heard a bit of
everything,
> > > growing up. I think it was around 10-15% Americans when I was
> > growing up.
> > > I probably say something close to a drawn out "arz" for "ours",
but
> >
> > > it becomes 2 syllables when I say, "hours" (ow-erz). It rhymes
with
> >
> > > flowers.
> > >
> > > We have nice Ikonboard Forum here, that Hugh Birkenhead of the
> > group set up, where we can post messages back and forth in the
Shaw
> > > Alphabet. The Keyboard Mapping is pretty consistent, we just use
> > the Upper
> > case Roman Key Letters to represent the extra letters in the
Shaw
> > > Alphabet, as the Shaw Alphabet uses a Namer dot instead of
Capitals
> > anyway.
> > > To get to the Ikonboard go to www.shavian.org and click on NEW
Hugh
> >
> > > Birkenhead Forum. Then go to the Shaw Chat section.
> > > For you to see the Shaw letters instead of their Roman letter
> > > equivalents, you have to download the Shaw 2 Font, but there is
an
> > > option to do that right on www.shavian.org screen next to the
Hugh
> > > Birkenhead Forum. I would think it would work on the Library
> > > Computer, but you will have to try it out to be sure.
> > > Give it a try.
> >
>
>
> ====> http://www.livejournal.com/users/wodentoad
>
> Numfar! Do the Dance of Joy!
>
>
>
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