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Paul Vandenbrink notes:

>>One day soon, we will probably have a World English.<<

We really need to recruit a native speaker of Indian English on this list!

Bob Richmond
rhesolutely rhotic in Tennessee

Hi Everyone

We are rapidly approaching our 1000th message in the new Shaw
Alphabet Forum. I would personally like to thank everyone who
participated in getting this Forum off the ground.

I would especially like to thank Hugh Birkenhead for his oversight
and initative in maintaining the Shavian Organization site and
getting this Shaw Alphabet Forum going.

His ingenuity in Synthesizing a good mix of opinions is of the
highest order.

Regards, Paul V.
___________attached_______________________________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, RSRICHMOND@a... wrote:
> We really need to recruit a native speaker of Indian English on
this list!
I second the opinion and would like someone from South Africa,too. PV
>
> Bob Richmond
> rhesolutely rhotic in Tennessee

Why thankyou! :)

It's the least I could do for you lot ;)

Hugh B

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of paul vandenbrink
> Sent: 27 June 2005 18:25
> To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shawalphabet] Standard Shavian Spelling Celebration
>
> Hi Everyone
>
> We are rapidly approaching our 1000th message in the new Shaw
> Alphabet Forum. I would personally like to thank everyone who
> participated in getting this Forum off the ground.
>
> I would especially like to thank Hugh Birkenhead for his oversight
> and initative in maintaining the Shavian Organization site and
> getting this Shaw Alphabet Forum going.
>
> His ingenuity in Synthesizing a good mix of opinions is of the
> highest order.
>
> Regards, Paul V.
> ___________attached_______________________________________
>
> --- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, RSRICHMOND@a... wrote:
> > We really need to recruit a native speaker of Indian English on
> this list!
> I second the opinion and would like someone from South Africa,too. PV
> >
> > Bob Richmond
> > rhesolutely rhotic in Tennessee
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Bob

You are correct. Closeted away in our literate English Enclave
quibbling about British or American Spelling, we do not realise that
World English might very well reject both of our accents. The real
growth in English today is in the Third World and Asia.

I would just like to interject a point from Andy Callaway from
Australia about a Standardized Shaw pronunciation (G-d Forbid).

* On pronunciation, as I've tried to say, don't write Shavian in your
accent based on the pronunciation of the letters according to the
prescribed accent (Northern English, King George V), but spell
according to how _you_ would pronounce these letters.
It should _minimise_ spelling differences.
Well, Or result in only minor variations in Shavian spelling, which
as far as I can see, shouldn't cause any major hassles.
After all, we have variations with the Latin alphabet as it
is. For example, I'm an Aussie of English descent, therefore I spell
colour, through, tyre and litre. However, I'm able to handle
(recognize) color, thru, tire and
liter without my head exploding.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Nobody uses Gaol (related to Gallows) for Jail anymore, do they?
P.P.S. French spelling and its disassociated pronunciation was the
Bete Noire of my childhood. Oh, to be a Canadian.
P.P.P.S. Would you be able to recognise "tho" for though?
____________________attached____________________________
--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, RSRICHMOND@a... wrote:

One day soon, we will probably have a World English.
Before then We really need to recruit a native speaker of Indian
English on this list!
>
> Bob Richmond
> rhesolutely rhotic in Tennessee

We need a list of National Varieties of English.
Each variety will include a group of mutually understood accents.
Here is a first attempt.

1. British
2. American & Canadian
3. Scots
4. Irish
5. South African & Zimbabwe
6. Australian & New Zealander
7. East Asian (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka)
8. Singlish (Singapore & Malaysia)
9. Chinese English (Hong Kong)
10. Pidgin English (New Guinea)

Any additions?

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. Ideally, it would be nice to have a representative from each of
the different National Groups. But I doubt if it's practical.
Dibs on number 2.

>We need a list of National Varieties of English.

Do we? Admittedly it is good fun to make such a list. A lot of jokes work
because of just such varieties. Collections like the BBC's English With An
Accent (non-native: Russian, French, Danish, Spanish--well it sounded more
like Barcelona Catalan to me, German etc.) and English With A Dialect
(native, British Isles: Hampshire, Glaswegian, Geordie, Scouse, Brummagen,
North Wales & South, same for Ireland, Lancashire, London--estuary English
rather than Cockney, Inverness ...) are fascinating audio documents. But
these varieties are not national and they are for the ear alone.

Nor can Shavian be used as a linguistic tool to help elucidate accents or
teach a learner to say:
When I told him to stop talking, he stop talking. (Count the spaces).
Some varieties have different word divisions or intrusive sounds: Sidnee
Yarbour, India Roffice, Lon Dumbridge, Africal's a malarial areal (that's
Bristowe, sorry Bristol), bu lokhar (for bullock cart in Ceylon, according
to Antony Burgess). Again, Shavian is at a disadvantage to cope with
these, let alone subtleties like the fact that Welsh and Swedish accents
sound similar because neither have ZOO in their repertoire. (Sorry, I've
just proved myself wrong in that instance--standard spelling would have to
write eggss, noisse or something as ugly to reproduce the effect) A final
peculiarity is the use of a separate style or construction or vocabulary
that is independent of pronunciation: rhyming slang; Chinese, pidgin, and
Welsh avoidance of plural forms after numerals, Slavic 'We went for a walk
with father' meaning 'Father and I went for a walk'. German order of time
- manner - place: 'I go on Saturday by bus to town.' I love these things
-- that's why I read P G Wodehouse -- but I would say they are not what
Shavian is about.

At present there is a certain freedom in working with Shavian. Rather than
trying to reproduce the sounds I use I'm happy with an approximation. I
don't even have to be consistent. For that reason I've even been trying to
use Shavian for other languages. Despite what I've read it is quite
feasible. And I've listened to people who are fluent in several languages.
Some take their voices with them when they travel, others change completely.

The golden rule is that there are no golden rules. Now who said that?

jb

Hi Folks,

I just started a new discussion group on Truth-seeking. It's a group
that just about anything can be discussed. And of course I'll still
send some messages about Shavian at this site. Because I'm still
interested in Shavian. I just needed to branch out more.

Best of Regards,

Carl

Hi John

I was just making the point that their are a varity of expanding
groups of English Pidgins and Dialects and speakers, not just accents
from Foreign Language learners, but different English that are
evolving in more or less the same direction.
If you look at my English Variety list you will see these are all
significant speech communities. Does anyone know of any others?

I think with the addition of a few letters for some odd speech sounds
in the English Dialects (i.e. ch in Scottish), the Shavain Alphebet
could be used to write the entire family of English Dialects.
We need to identify these different Englishes and let these Language
communities be aware that there is a practical well designed English
Phonetic Alphabet, with a bit of history and a lot of adherents.

Regards, Paul V.

P.S. As for proverb about Golden Rules, I believe it was from GBS
himself.
P.P.S. Usage of English will be highlighted at the upcoming London
Olympics.
In fact it came out today that even Vladamir Putin fould it necessary
to learn English, to better participate in the various world summits.
_____________attached___________________

--- In shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com, John Burrows <burrows@t...>
wrote:
> Do we? Admittedly it is good fun to make such a list. A lot of
jokes work
> because of just such varieties. Collections like the BBC's English
With An
> Accent (non-native: Russian, French, Danish, Spanish--well it
sounded more
> like Barcelona Catalan to me, German etc.) and English With A
Dialect
> (native, British Isles: Hampshire, Glaswegian, Geordie, Scouse,
Brummagen,
> North Wales & South, same for Ireland, Lancashire, London--estuary
English
> rather than Cockney, Inverness ...) are fascinating audio
documents. But
> these varieties are not national and they are for the ear alone.
>
> Nor can Shavian be used as a linguistic tool to help elucidate
accents or
> teach a learner to say:
> When I told him to stop talking, he stop talking. (Count the
spaces).
> Some varieties have different word divisions or intrusive sounds:
Sidnee
> Yarbour, India Roffice, Lon Dumbridge, Africal's a malarial areal
(that's
> Bristowe, sorry Bristol), bu lokhar (for bullock cart in Ceylon,
according
> to Antony Burgess). Again, Shavian is at a disadvantage to cope
with
> these, let alone subtleties like the fact that Welsh and Swedish
accents
> sound similar because neither have ZOO in their repertoire.
(Sorry, I've
> just proved myself wrong in that instance--standard spelling would
have to
> write eggss, noisse or something as ugly to reproduce the effect)
A final
> peculiarity is the use of a separate style or construction or
vocabulary
> that is independent of pronunciation: rhyming slang; Chinese,
pidgin, and
> Welsh avoidance of plural forms after numerals, Slavic 'We went for
a walk
> with father' meaning 'Father and I went for a walk'. German order
of time
> - manner - place: 'I go on Saturday by bus to town.' I love these
things
> -- that's why I read P G Wodehouse -- but I would say they are not
what
> Shavian is about.
>
> At present there is a certain freedom in working with Shavian.
Rather than
> trying to reproduce the sounds I use I'm happy with an
approximation. I
> don't even have to be consistent. For that reason I've even been
trying to
> use Shavian for other languages. Despite what I've read it is quite
> feasible. And I've listened to people who are fluent in several
languages.
> Some take their voices with them when they travel, others change
completely.
>
> The golden rule is that there are no golden rules. Now who said
that?
>
> jb

I hope you are all well, and your friends, family, and aquaintances
too. I'm praying for everyone over there and for your nation because of
the tragic events yesterday, for your comfort and strength at this time.

--
Ethan Lamoreaux - ·𐑰𐑔𐑩𐑯 ·𐑤𐑨𐑥𐑩𐑮𐑴

Thankyou, Ethan.

I am deeply saddened by the needless loss of life that seems to keep on
happening over and over again. If the terrorists think a few bombs will make
Londoners crumble, they need only look at the Blitz, the IRA bombs, and all
other failed attempts to break their spirit.

They're used to it there. The 'terrorists' are wasting their time.

Hugh B


> -----Original Message-----
> From: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Ethan
> Sent: 08 July 2005 07:19
> To: shawalphabet@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shawalphabet] For our UK members
>
> I hope you are all well, and your friends, family, and aquaintances
> too. I'm praying for everyone over there and for your nation because of
> the tragic events yesterday, for your comfort and strength at this time.
>
> --
> Ethan Lamoreaux - .???????? .????????????
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>