Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

you cant regester for the message board on phantommx? what happens when you
try to. i can regester fine

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
Reply-To: shavian@...
To: <shavian@...>
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Message Board at PhantomMX!
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:26:29 +0100


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id be willing to co-admin, but it would be much easer for me if the mesage
board was on phantommx, if the font thing realy bothers you (which it seams
it does) i could recoad the board acordingly. i was planing on recoading the
board anyhow but now i have some modivation.

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
Reply-To: shavian@...
To: <shavian@...>
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Message Board at PhantomMX!
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:26:29 +0100


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On Wednesday, May 23, 2001, at 09:24 , Mitch Morris wrote:

>
> i was unable to get the dll to work on win2K, i was not prompted as to
> where
> the dll was, it just did its thing and started typing cerilic. i even
> tryed
> replacing the russian dlls with the one you provided, that did not help
> for
> some reason.
> any help is apreaceated
>

Mitch,

I would assume you were not prompted for the location of the DLL
since the system either already had it installed, or because it knew
where the file was. On my NT system I know I have to reboot after I
"change" the file. Perhaps after you replace the proper Cyrillic file
with the Shavian one you need to reboot. If you are in fact using the
Shavian DLL you should not be generating Cyrillic data since I removed
all of that.

--
Scott Harrison




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

fonetik english abrEviAshunz: t = to e = the f =
of n = and
short vowelz: a, az in ash / e az in egg / i az in if / o az in on /
u az in ability.
long: A, az in age / E, az in eat / I, az in ice / O az in oak / U
az in you.
digraphs: ah az in ah! / au az in august / ch az in church / oo az
in ooze /
ou az in out / oi/oy az in oil / sh az in shore / th az in they /
zh az in azure.
other usage: f az in photo / g az in sugjest / j az in sugjest / k
az in krazy kat /
q az in quadroon / s az in cedilla / x az in sex / y az in yeh! /
z az in daisy.

=============================================

I trId t enter e vault t rEd wot had ben kontribUted, but hav
fAld. wI?

I enterd: www.egroups.com/group/shavian (then e instrukshunz wer
t Uz a link that sez "vault".

I woz unAbul t fInd such a link. wot shud I trI next?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~111




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Firstly what is all this 'fonetik english' stuff? Looks a lot like Shavian
does without using the right font! :)

Secondly, you're right about the vault not being where it should. Hell,
where has it gone? If you ask me it's this ruddy Yahoo Groups nonsense -
their interface is vastly inferior to the one eGroups had knocked together
just before they sold out to Yahoo. It's now telling me I'm not a member of
the group, so I have to sign up AGAIN. The cheek of it. Grumble, whinge and
groan.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: <kfs111@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: [shavian] vault


>
> fonetik english abrEviAshunz: t = to e = the f =
> of n = and
> short vowelz: a, az in ash / e az in egg / i az in if / o az in on /
> u az in ability.
> long: A, az in age / E, az in eat / I, az in ice / O az in oak / U
> az in you.
> digraphs: ah az in ah! / au az in august / ch az in church / oo az
> in ooze /
> ou az in out / oi/oy az in oil / sh az in shore / th az in they /
> zh az in azure.
> other usage: f az in photo / g az in sugjest / j az in sugjest / k
> az in krazy kat /
> q az in quadroon / s az in cedilla / x az in sex / y az in yeh! /
> z az in daisy.
>
> =============================================
>
> I trId t enter e vault t rEd wot had ben kontribUted, but hav
> fAld. wI?
>
> I enterd: www.egroups.com/group/shavian (then e instrukshunz wer
> t Uz a link that sez "vault".
>
> I woz unAbul t fInd such a link. wot shud I trI next?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~111
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Firstly what is all this 'fonetik english' stuff? Looks a lot like Shavian
does without using the right font! :)

Secondly, you're right about the vault not being where it should. Hell,
where has it gone? If you ask me it's this ruddy Yahoo Groups nonsense -
their interface is vastly inferior to the one eGroups had knocked together
just before they sold out to Yahoo. It's now telling me I'm not a member of
the group, so I have to sign up AGAIN. The cheek of it. Grumble, whinge and
groan.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: <kfs111@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: [shavian] vault


>
> fonetik english abrEviAshunz: t = to e = the f =
> of n = and
> short vowelz: a, az in ash / e az in egg / i az in if / o az in on /
> u az in ability.
> long: A, az in age / E, az in eat / I, az in ice / O az in oak / U
> az in you.
> digraphs: ah az in ah! / au az in august / ch az in church / oo az
> in ooze /
> ou az in out / oi/oy az in oil / sh az in shore / th az in they /
> zh az in azure.
> other usage: f az in photo / g az in sugjest / j az in sugjest / k
> az in krazy kat /
> q az in quadroon / s az in cedilla / x az in sex / y az in yeh! /
> z az in daisy.
>
> =============================================
>
> I trId t enter e vault t rEd wot had ben kontribUted, but hav
> fAld. wI?
>
> I enterd: www.egroups.com/group/shavian (then e instrukshunz wer
> t Uz a link that sez "vault".
>
> I woz unAbul t fInd such a link. wot shud I trI next?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~111
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

hV: TANks 4 jUr rApid respons. ~~~~111
======================

--- In shavian@y..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@b...> wrote:
> Firstly what is all this 'fonetik english' stuff? Looks a lot like
Shavian
> does without using the right font! :)
>
> Secondly, you're right about the vault not being where it should.
Hell,
> where has it gone? If you ask me it's this ruddy Yahoo Groups
nonsense -
> their interface is vastly inferior to the one eGroups had knocked
together
> just before they sold out to Yahoo. It's now telling me I'm not a
member of
> the group, so I have to sign up AGAIN. The cheek of it. Grumble,
whinge and
> groan.
>
> Hugh B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kfs111@y...>
> To: <shavian@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:55 PM
> Subject: [shavian] vault
>
>
> >
> > fonetik english abrEviAshunz: t = to e = the f
=
> > of n = and
> > short vowelz: a, az in ash / e az in egg / i az in if / o az in
on /
> > u az in ability.
> > long: A, az in age / E, az in eat / I, az in ice / O az in oak /
U
> > az in you.
> > digraphs: ah az in ah! / au az in august / ch az in church / oo
az
> > in ooze /
> > ou az in out / oi/oy az in oil / sh az in shore / th az in
they /
> > zh az in azure.
> > other usage: f az in photo / g az in sugjest / j az in sugjest /
k
> > az in krazy kat /
> > q az in quadroon / s az in cedilla / x az in sex / y az in
yeh! /
> > z az in daisy.
> >
> > =============================================
> >
> > I trId t enter e vault t rEd wot had ben kontribUted, but hav
> > fAld. wI?
> >
> > I enterd: www.egroups.com/group/shavian (then e instrukshunz
wer
> > t Uz a link that sez "vault".
> >
> > I woz unAbul t fInd such a link. wot shud I trI next?
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~111
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Perhaps some of you Savians who are also teknO-gIks might answer this question for me.

Last fall I spent a lot of time and money trying to use a language recognition program called IBM Viavoice. After overcoming the hardware hurdles, I spent many hours "teaching" the program how to recognize my voice and type the correct words. At its best, recognition never got better than, I'd say, 75%, and I eventually lost interest in trying to tweak its performance (or my performance) any further.

Am I correct in concluding that, if Shavian were the "kQn v H relm ," this program would have

1) taken much less time to write (and therefore cost less)

2) The "teaching" period would have been much shorter.

3) It would achieve almost complete accuracy, because every word has only one spelling, and its spelling is not context-dependant.

4) Such a program could be used not only for dictation, but as a way to train non-English speakers. Students could talk, and the computer would type,, and the student would know he had made the right sound because the computer would print the right glyph. The student would get instant feedback,

/iz His not trM?
--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk


"wun simpol Az az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gRJ /bxnRd /SP

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Robert and all,

The complexity of English spelling actually has little to do with the difficulty of doing speech recognition well. One could say that speech recognition consists of four steps (though this is a bit of an approximation, since some of those are sometimes done concurrently)

1) sampling the audio
2) performing frequency analysis (discovering frequency patterns)
3) recognizing a stream of phonemes in the frequency graph
4) translating a stream of phonemes into text with conventional spelling

English spelling only poses problems for step 4, which, however, happens to be one of the easier steps, as it is done using a simple lookup table.

The most difficult and expensive step is 3, which is the centerpiece of the recognition engine and does not really depend on the spelling. (The difficulty of this step tends to depend more on the phonetic properties of the language, e.g. complexity of the consonant clusters.)

- yuri

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert McBroom [mailto:info@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:46 PM
To: shavian@...
Subject: [shavian] A kwCi

Perhaps some of you Savians who are also teknO-gIks might answer this question for me.

Last fall I spent a lot of time and money trying to use a language recognition program called IBM Viavoice. After overcoming the hardware hurdles, I spent many hours "teaching" the program how to recognize my voice and type the correct words. At its best, recognition never got better than, I'd say, 75%, and I eventually lost interest in trying to tweak its performance (or my performance) any further.

Am I correct in concluding that, if Shavian were the "kQn v H relm ," this program would have

1) taken much less time to write (and therefore cost less)

2) The "teaching" period would have been much shorter.

3) It would achieve almost complete accuracy, because every word has only one spelling, and its spelling is not context-dependant.

4) Such a program could be used not only for dictation, but as a way to train non-English speakers. Students could talk, and the computer would type,, and the student would know he had made the right sound because the computer would print the right glyph. The student would get instant feedback,

/iz His not trM?
--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk

"wun simpol Az az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gRJ /bxnRd /SP



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

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At 05:46 PM 5/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:


Am I correct in concluding that, if Shavian were the "kQn v H relm ," this program


(snip)



3) ...would achieve almost complete accuracy, because every word has only one spelling, and its spelling is not context-dependant.


I would have to say "3)" above is not correct. The posts on this site in Shavian quite regularly spell words differently than I would. When the differences are not due to their or my lack of familiarity with Shavian, it appears to be because they pronounce the words differently than I do.

In the Quikscript Manual, Kingsley Read wrote that spelling should not be a cultural fetish. I believe he meant that spelling should be permitted to reflect the speech of the writer. It should not be imposed from on high by teachers and dictionaries, and its importance should not be over-emphasized, as it is now. After all, given the poor correspondence between the roman alphabet and English phonemes, a "good speller" is just someone with a better memory than average.

The only way to reach one "standard" spelling per word is to attempt to impose a standard speech on English speakers, and then you have the impossible task of choosing whose speech to emulate. Additionally, since the English-speaking world has no equivalent of the Academie Francaise, who would enforce this choice?

I do not find variant spellings much of a problem. First, the actual number of variants is not all that large in a typical piece of writing. Secondly, when you do encounter a word spelled differently than you would spell it, you can almost always decipher it. Generally, it merely causes a temporary slowing in reading speed.

In closing, I believe the idea that Shavian spells everything one way is clearly wrong and not necessary for good communication.


Paige Gabhart




- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk

"wun simpol Az az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gRJ /bxnRd /SP

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