Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

--
Scott Harrison

Jon,

I have made a translation of A Christmas Carol available on my web page already.

I have made frequency counts of all my translated documents and am just trying to figure out how to present the data nicely (on an individual document basis, as well as across all the documents). I hope to have the frequency counts on the web page in the next day or so.

Sorry for the last message - I accidently sent an empty note.

--
Scott Harrison
Cocoa Support Engineer : Apple iServices : Apple

--- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...>
wrote:
> Jon,
>
> I have made a translation of A Christmas Carol available on
my web page already.

Wow! Pray tell, what's your URL? Also, If you used the translation
program for it, could you e-mail a copy of your saved glossary to me?

>I hope to have the frequency counts on the web page in the next day
>or so.

Look forward to it!

In a message from Jon Zuck <frimmin@...>
dated Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:17:20 +0000, my mailer made me see:

-> --- In shavian@..., Scott Harrison <scott_harrison@a...>
-> wrote:
-> > Jon,
-> >
-> > I have made a translation of A Christmas Carol available on
-> my web page already.
->
-> Wow! Pray tell, what's your URL? Also, If you used the translation
-> program for it, could you e-mail a copy of your saved glossary to me?
->
-> >I hope to have the frequency counts on the web page in the next day
-> >or so.
->
-> Look forward to it!
->
->
->
->

Jon,

The URL is http://www.mithrandir.com/Shavian/Shavian.html and I did use a translator program - the one I wrote. I can send you the dictionary if you really want it, but it may not be all that helpful to you since it uses Unicode date in a property list format.

--
Scott Harrison
Cocoa Support Engineer : Apple iServices : Apple

Hello,

I have updated my web page to point to a page of frequency counts for all my Shavian documents. Of course the page is UTF-8, and it displays two tables - one with raw letter counts and the second with percentages. The "total" entry at the bottom is derived by adding all the totals of letters together and therefore the "percentage total" is as if there were one document with all the letters from the others in it.

--
Scott Harrison
Cocoa Support Engineer : Apple iServices : Apple

I did not mean to exclude anyone - if you would like to include your orthography in the comparison, just send it in. The test sentence is "They say eye aye sir"

Obfuscation in representation

There are three vowels in English that are totally confused in the traditional writing system
The code overlaps are complete, TES uses the same letters to represent totally different sounds.
See "How many ways can you spell DAY" www.vicotian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/ei-9ways.html

All reform notations (except cut spelling) eliminate the ambiguity but they do it in
two different ways. One sticks with the original Latin conventions the other opts
for the shifted values unique to English. The difference between the two approaches
shows up in the diphthongs. With an IPA/Latin based correspondences, the component
letters in the digraph can be pronounced. This is not possible with shifted sounds: e.g.,
ie is a unique symbol with no clear connection to the sounds of the component letters.
[see Is English dys <http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/MSJ-article-online.htm> lexic?]

Traditional
they
say
eye
aye
sir
Spanglish <http://www.unifon.org/ss-0.html>
they
sey sæy
ai 'I
ai 'y
s'r srr
IPA
ðei
sei
ai
ai 'i
s'' s3:
Winglish
dei
sei
ai
ai
sr
Iqliz
de
se
'i
'i 'i
s'r
RITE spel
thay
say
ie I
ie I
sur
New Spel
thae
sae
ie
ie
sur
Unifon <http://www.unifon.org/index.html>
DA sA I I scr
Shavian <http://www.unifon.org/shaw-alfa.html>
DE
sE
F
F
sX
MenuSpel
thay
say
ie
ie
suhr
Unigraf
DA
sA
I
I
sR
Intrspel*
thä
sä
ï
ï
s*r
The first line shows how ei and ai are totally confused in traditional spelling.
The code overlap is complete. ey can refer to both sounds, ay can refer to both sounds.
The success of the solutions cannot be determined without reading a long passage in
the new notation. For more on Spanglish see Pronunciation Spelling

Shavian <http://www.unifon.org/lionspaw.ttf> and Unifon <http://www.unifon.org/unifon.ttf> require a special font to view. Click to download.

Poetry Page <http://www.unifon.org/cow-poem.html> - poem in unifon

Are you looking for some free email account ??

Try this : http://freemail.vze.com

and you will love it....^_^























































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If any of you have a link to my Shavian alphabet website, please would you
amend it to:

http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/

I currently carry links to the following people's sites, so reciprocal
linking would be appreciated!
Lionel Ghoti; Ross DeMeyere; Bob Richmond; A.M. Callaway; Hugh Birkenhead;
Phillip Driscoll; Steve Bett; Gary Shannon; Scott Harrison; www.shavian.org.
If I've omitted your site, please let me know.

Thanks!

You can register a domain name AND get 20MB of web space (plus an email
account) for US $35 for one year from http://www.catalog.com/. This seems to
be one of the best deals around at the moment. No more annoying ads!

Simon Barne


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Simon Barne wrote:
> If any of you have a link to my Shavian alphabet website,
> please would you amend it to:
>
> http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/
>
> I currently carry links to the following people's sites, so reciprocal
> linking would be appreciated!
> Lionel Ghoti; Ross DeMeyere; Bob Richmond; A.M. Callaway;
> Hugh Birkenhead; Phillip Driscoll; Steve Bett; Gary Shannon;
> Scott Harrison; www.shavian.org.

Done, for www.shavian.org . Thanks for putting up your page, and for the
link back.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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Zeno:

As I was doing a little housekeeping tonight, I ran across this e-mail from
last year. Apparently, I did not read it at the time. You may have
learned this later, but in case you did not, the script you are looking for
is Quikscript, which is the improved version of Shavian by Kingsley
Read. I have been using it for approximately 25 years.

There was no font for it last year, but we have one now so you can
correspond by computer on the net. Almost everyone on the Shavian site
ignores it because they do not know much about it and do not care to
learn. My attitude is that there are so few people interested in Shavian,
that Quikscript, which to my mind, is definitely superior for writing by
hand, should be the alphabet we are trying to introduce to the wider public.

After Shavian had been in use for awhile, Read saw some of its
shortcomings, and devised Quikscript. It is quite fluid to write, and the
letters naturally form graceful and eloquent shapes. With only a couple of
exceptions, it does not use connections between letters. Read's idea was
that any letter that naturally ends where another starts should be
connected. This saves the time associated with a penlift. But letters
that do not easily connect should not be connected. This helps to avoid
some of the mannerisms people tend to fall into in their writing and aids
in the readability of the script, I believe.

Look for Read_Alphabet@.... There is not a lot there at the
moment, but you can download the font and try it out yourself. The font is
also available at the Shavian site. The font is called "Jerome." We have
not developed the site any further at this point because some of our
members are a little antsy about further dividing our nascent group into
subgroups.

Paige Gabhart

At 06:24 AM 6/6/2000 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello everyone.
>
>After that wonderful introduction of myself, I would like to say that
>I am disappointed in the Shavian alphabet. I am impressed by the
>wonderful sites I have found on the internet, and the work that has
>gone into Shavian fonts. I am disappointed because I assumed that
>Shavian would be a form of shorthand that did not confuse different
>pronunciations of words as shorthand does.
>
>Since Shaw used shorthand, do you all not believe that this is what
>he wanted? Do you not think that he wanted an alphabet similar to
>shorthand in that one could write fluidly in script for each word?
>
>I have downloaded all of the fonts I can find, including "Shaw
>Script" which I hoped would join things together despite the warnings
>from Read that they should not. I read that there was a "Senior
>Script" of a further develpment by Read at
>http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/quickscript.html and that the
>sample shown was "Junior" and was printed (as opposed to
>handwritten/script).
>
>My question is, is there a script form of Shavian? It must surely be
>the next step, because all writing systems developed an uppercase and
>lowercase system in the past. I know, some are not hand-writeable
>but are just smaller versions of the uppercase, but Shavian is based
>on the phenomes of English, and English has lowercase and script.
>
>I am asking because I would like to use Shavian. In my "daytimer"
>(calendar book), I am often holding it in one hand and writing with
>the other, sometimes in a moving vehicle, sometimes while chatting.
>I actually write notes to myself in print but find myself using
>handwriting in my 'things to do' book because I must.
>
>Where is the fluid version of Shavian, which I believe wholeheartedly
>that Shaw wanted?
>
>- Zeno
>
>
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