Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

Star,

There are several websites with good charts.

Here is one that is on the yahoogroups server.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/grapheme-phoneme-key-
charts/shavian-ipa-keybd16.gif

Perhaps this will help.

It relates the shavian symbols to IPA and the ascii keyboard
positions.

Regards,

Steve


--- In shavian@y..., warriorprincess@g... wrote:
> Hello all, from a Shavian across the pond!
>
> I learned about shavian from my senior english book in high school
> and I have since been fascinated by writing systems. (linguistics
is
> my hobby) I an amazed that so many people recognize the usefulness
of
> a system that works by phonetics rather than traditional spellings.
> After all, who cares if you spell grey or gray, colour or color,
> turck or lorrie (okay maybe not that last one). Anyway, my
> question/observation is this: Shavian is missing one phenome to
make
> it american as well as english--the breathless "wh" versus the
> breathed "w". This might have already been rehashed, but I'm
willing
> to hash it again ;)
>
> Love and happy writing,
> Star
>
> ps. is there anyone who has a key to practicing handwritten Shavian?
>
> All hail George Bernard Shaw!




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----- Original Message -----
From: Nina Venjakob <mailto:nina@...>
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; <mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: help halt this tragedy


Subject: Zimbabwe: Stop this madness!
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:34:15


How to...

To sign this petition, click on "Forward", add the addresses of all the
people you know in the "To...", "Cc..." or "Bcc..." box, go to the bottom of
the petition and type in your name and then "Send". We must try to get a
million copies of this petition to The President of the USA at the
White House.



Please would every 100th person forward this to the White House.
address:

president@... <mailto:president@...>

PETITION:

Zimbabwe, "another jewel of Africa" is dying. Strangled by the corrupt
forces, short sighted self serving policies of the ego-maniacal dictator
Robert Mugabe. Freedom, human rights and sensibility has been extinguished.
Zimbabwe is becoming an unstabilising factor in the regional politics. Only
drastic measures by international democracies will be able to save Zimbabwe
from damnation and prevent long term starvation and civil war in the region
as experienced in the Congo.

We have to ensure responsible governance for the people of Zimbabwe. The
International community pleads for support to save Zimbabwe:

1. The resignation of Robert G. Mugabe

2. Free and Fair Parliamentary and Municipal Elections

3. Non interference or escalation of regional conflicts. Removal of
Zimbabwean Troops from the Congo

4. Restoration of Constitutional Law in Zimbabwe

5. Obedience by the government of the day to the laws of the country.



We the undersigned support this petition:

Signed:

1. Peter Punungwe, Harare, Zimbabwe

2. Roger Adams, Harare

3. Paul Cumming, Bulawayo, Zimbabwe

4. Neverson Mbonga, Harare

5. George Jansen, Harare, Zimbabwe

6. Norman Kalulu

7. Cleaver Choto, Harare, Zimbabwe

8. Dilap Patel, New York NY

9. Nona Patel, Houston TX

10. James Norvelle, Cape Town, South Africa

11. Antonio Salves, Durban

12. Chipo Murapa, Harare

13. Abmerson Culverwell, London

14. Noor Singha, London, UK

15. Jemison Moyo, Bulawayo

16. Bhakta Patel, Gweru, Zimbabwe

17. Lee Watt, Harare, Zimbabwe

18. Bob Watt, Harare, Zimbabwe

19. Mary Brophy, Harare, Zimbabwe

20. Julia Lujite, Harare, Zimbabwe

21. Marlee Howie, Harare, Zimbabwe

22. Mike Howie, Harare, Zimbabwe

23. Beauty Jeche, Harare, Zimbabwe

24. Corralee Greeff, Rotherham, UK (Zimbabwean)

25. Leon Greeff, Rotherham, UK (Zimbabwean)

26. Zelda Greeff, Harare, Zimbabwe

27. Gareth Lee-Bell, London, England

28. Ewen Cameron, London, England (Zimbabwean)

29. Jessica Kennedy, London, UK (Zimbabwean)

30. Susanne Johansson, GÉteborg, Sweden

31. Alan Graham, Harare, Zimbabwe

32. Les Rule, Sandton, Gauteng, South Africa

33. Ann Thorne, Harare, Zimbabwe

34. Stuart Thorne,Barberton, South Africa

35. Ann Thorne,Barberton, South Africa

36. Keith Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe

37. Pat Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe

38. Anne Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe

39. Mark Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe

40. Lea Butler, Shamva, Zimbabwe

41. Kevin Butler, Harare, Zimbabwe

42. Corinne Butler, Harare, Zimbabwe

43. Belinda Egan, Harare, Zimbabwe

44. Elliose Burton, Harare, Zimbabwe

45. Ian Burton, Harae, Zimbabwe

46. John Egan, Harare, Zimbabwe

47. Mags Varley, Vic Falls, Zimbabwe

48. Lesley Cripps, Wiltshire, England

49. Sharon Van Rensburg, Johannesburg, RSA

50. Gill Lotter, London, UK

51. Neil Lotter, London, UK (Zimbabwean)

52. Julie-Anne Lotter, London, England (Zimbabwean) 53.

53. Melody Duff, London, UK (Zimbabwean)

54. Janine Pringle, London, UK (Zimbabwean!)

55. Trevor Man, London, UK

56. Chris Edgar, Tengwe, Zimbabwe

57. Shelley Burgis, Armidale, Australia

58. Jason Barr, Exiled in Australia (Zimbabwean)

59. Vicky Barr, Zimbabwean in Greece

60. Mandi Burke, Zimbabwean in Israel

61. Alex Fraser-Kirk, Sydney Australia

62. Jann Thompson, Congleton, UK

63. Lara Warburton, Manchester, UK

64. Laurel Milwid, Manchester, UK

65. Matthew Milwid, Manchester, UK

66. George McGhie, Zimbabwe

67. Sally Ann McGhie, Zimbabwe

68. Elizabeth Louw, Zimbabwe

69. Keith J.Lindsay, Midrand, South Africa

70. Kathryn J. Lindsay, Midrand, South Africa

71. Stephen Roskilly , Gloucester UK. ex Zimbabwe

72. Lucinda Roskilly , Gloucester UK. ex Zimbabwe

73. John Lewis, Bristol, UK, (Zimbabwean)

74. Benjamin Murray, UK, (Zimbabwean)

75. Keith Murray, SA, (Zimbabwean)

75. Sarah Thompson, Harare, Zimbabwe

76. Naomi Chudy, Harare, Zimbabwe

77 John Cubitt Norwich Norfolk U.K.

78 Paul Garnett, Perth, Western Australia

79. Audrey Innes, London, UK

80. Bronwen Bawden, UK

81. Graeme Bawden, UK

82. Patty Dube, S.A

83. Denson Dube, S.A

84. Nigel Hulett, Zimbabwe

85. Gail Milford, New Zealand

86. Shane Milford, New Zealand

87. Janet Milford, Zimbabwe

88. Fred Milford, Zimbabwe

89. Charles Milford, Zimbabwe

90. Yolander Visser, Zimbabwe

91. Anton Visser, Zimbabwe

92. Serge Finck, Zimbabwe

93. Daisy Mpofu, Zimbabwe

94. Gerry P. Richardson, Zimbabwe

95. Alan Bradnick, Zimbabwe

96. Sandra A. de Klerk, Zimbabwe

97. Eria Bradnick, Zimbabwe

98. Joseph B. de Klerk, Zimbabwe

99. Bafana Mbedzi, Zimbabwe

100. Sidihiwe Masabu, Zimbabwe

1. Mable Mbedzi, Zimbabwe

2. Leo Siziba, Zimbabwe

3. Eniah Khumalo, Zimbabwe

4. Tony Furman, Zimbabwe

5. Sue Cowham, Zimbabwe

6. Lesley Thompson, Zimbabwe

7. Cheryl Hannon, South Africa

8. Trish Gooch, Zimbabwe.

9. Dom Couve, Zimbabwe

10. Chris Malujlo, South Africa

11. Mark Norman, Toowoomba, Australia

12. Clive Law-Brown, Cambridge, New Zealand

13. A.F Strauss Hamilton, New Zealand

14. S.F.Fourie, Bellville, South-Africa.

15. P K Acutt, Durban, South Africa

16. M. McGreal, Durban, South Africa

17 brian draycott Durban South Africa

18 Sybilla Draycott Durban South Africa

19 G Appleford Hillcrest South Africa

20. M.Clark Mooi River South Africa

21. Alannah Valentine, Hilton, S. Africa

22. Leigh Lombard, New York, USA (Zimbabwean)

23. Anton Crone, New York, USA

24 Ros Crone, Pietermaritzburg. SA

25 Ant Williams, Jhb, South Africa (Zimbabwean)

26 A. Hurrell, Harare, Zimbabwe

27. A. Lamb, Rusape, Zimbabwe

28. B. Parsons, Harare, Zimbabwe

29. D. Parsons, Harare, Zimbabwe,

30. D. Carter, Cape Town.

31. T. Carter, Cape Town.

32. D. Torre, Gaborone, Botswana

33. C. Torre, Gaborone, Botswana

34. C.Donald, Harare, Zimbabwe

35. Nick Worrall (journalist, 4 times deported from Zim)

35. Yvette Worrall Zimbabwean, Cape Town

36. Tony Lavine, Jhb
37. Nina Venjakob, Johannesburg.
38. Quentin Kyle, Johannesburg

Please would every 100th p
person forward this to the Whitehouse address as
well:

president@... <mailto:president@...>

Notice: All mail messages and attachments passing through this server are
scanned with the Network Associates suite of Anti Virus utilities.




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In the two weeks I have belonged to this group, I have received only two
messages and posts I thought I have made have been completely ignored.

It occurs to me there are three possibilities:

1. I am unwelcome
2. Yahoo has messed up
3. It is not a very active group.

Are there other possibilities?

Walt Reeser



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On 21 Aug 01, at 13:38, Robert S. Reeser wrote:

> In the two weeks I have belonged to this group, I have received only two
> messages and posts I thought I have made have been completely ignored.
>
> It occurs to me there are three possibilities:
>
> 1. I am unwelcome

I doubt that

> 2. Yahoo has messed up

This could explain the "I made posts but didn't see them"

> 3. It is not a very active group.

This is certainly true. Well, at least sometimes; the group has tended
to get bursts of activity and also periods of silence.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>



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As with the last fellow who sent something like this to the list, I will say now, I do not like Fwd's, especially if they are sent to the Yahoo! groups lists that I am a member of. I joined these groups to gain knowledge or to discuss a particular topic. Please keep your forwards to your own address book, and leave them off of the lists.

I do not mean to sound rude, but I have written a similar email to any other groups where people insist on forwarding messages to me.

Thank you,
Star Raven

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I have recently been comparing my notations in Shaw as opposed to my own pronunciation. I have come across a question:

What is the difference between up and ado, and what is the difference between ah and awe. I am wondering if this is a difference of accent (I am rhotic American) versus the actual pronunciation.

These were the only changes between Read and second shaw systems that threw me for a loop. Apparently the person who designed it did not understand the difference between Array and err as those who USE the alphabet.

Okay, now I'm getting full of myself...

Star

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What fonts are preferred for posting in Shavian? (I like Philip Driscoll's
ShawSans2; is that o.k.?)



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-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Star Raven <warriorprincess@...>
Aan: shavian@... <shavian@...>
Datum: dinsdag 21 augustus 2001 23:23
Onderwerp: [shavian] Help! I'm an American!


>I have recently been comparing my notations in Shaw as opposed to my own
pronunciation. I have come across a question:
>
>What is the difference between up and ado, and what is the difference
between ah and awe. I am wondering if this is a difference of accent (I am
rhotic American) versus the actual pronunciation.

The only difference betwee up and ado is stress. Up is stressed, ado isn't.
In the 2nd version of Shavian (also known as quickscript), up and ado are
combined and no distinction is made.

In my native language (Dutch) there are also up and ado sounds, with stress
as the only difference.

Ah and Awe both happen in Dutch too. Ah is the sound in fAther. If you can
say 'can't' like the British, then you've mastered the 'ah'. Ah is also used
in 'are' (take a good look at what components the ligatures are made of).

Awe is different. I pronounce it like the o-sound in the boy-diphthong,
except longer in duration.

If you know a little bit about phonetics, go to
http://www.simonbarne.com/shavian/ and take a look at the
Shavian-quickscript comparison chart. It has the phonetic signs next to the
shavian characters.

>
>These were the only changes between Read and second shaw systems that threw
me for a loop. Apparently the person who designed it did not understand the
difference between Array and err as those who USE the alphabet.


If you go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Read_Alphabet (The Quickscript
yahoo-group) you can download the complete quickscript manual in PDF format
(20 pages, about 2 MB). It will precizely explain how the Quickscript/2nd
shaw alphabet works, including special shortened characters etc.

Quickscript doesn't use ligatures since all characters are attached to each
other when possible, so writing array and err differently should work.

I don't know of any website that explains the usage of the quickscript
alphabet. I'm thinking of creating one myself.

>
>Okay, now I'm getting full of myself...
>
>Star



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Does anyone have a copy of Andy Callaway's ShawScript TrueType font? It is
no longer avaiable at his site, and he tells me he is having difficulty
finding it on his system.

If anyone would be willing to e-mail me a copy, I'd greatly appreciate it.



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My thanks and congratulations to whomever posted the detailed explanation of the Read Alphabet, a.k.a."Second Shaw."

While the writer acknowledges the help he/she's had, I couldn't find in the text who actually wrote it . But thanks nonetheless.

I feel the bold elimination of u and D are definitive improvements that should be adopted by "First Shaw" as well. "TrO Qt h dedwUd!" And "white-wheat" is a long-overdue addition. I even vote for the "eks" glyphs!


The character labels show a lot of thought and - a sure Shavian prerequisite - humor.

But one query to our mystery writer: why make a Readian computer font in the first place?

If the real beauty of Read is it's calligraphic qualities, and the speed with which it can be hand-written ("fewer pen lifts!") then what is the advantage of font-ticizing it? For fifty bucks you can by a program to turn your personal hand-writing into a font. But no one would write "Gone With the Wind" in it for submission to a publisher. And typing in Read/Read 2 doesn't appear to be one jot more efficient of strokes than typing in Shavian. Maybe less with the ligatures.

Architectural drafting has become the proper province of the computer - but never, I think, will oil painting.

Of course, in the final analysis, one might argue that Second Shaw should be computerized simply because, as that old riddle about why a dog licks his privates goes: "bikaz HI kAn!"


One final request of our anonymous scholar: reading your file was like reading the Rosetta Stone, because I cannot use the Jerome font. I - alas - am a Mac person, and I would love it if some kind and savy soul out there would adapt Jerome for my humble instrument. I feel a second class citizen of SEvWnna."


ps: And while they're at it: Mac version of Cursive Shaw etc!


--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk


"wun simpol iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /gPJ /bxnRd /SY

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