Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

> >> In order to teach Shavian it is essential to standardize the
> >pronunciation,
> >> so I use the pronunciation of the English Oxford Dictionary, which
> >is the
> >> basis for spelling, pronunciation, and usage of Standard English
> >(or
> >> Received English). American pronunciations would seriously
> >confuse the
> >> issue, as would a Scots, Irish or any British regional accent.

I don't exactly agree. Asking to standardise pronuciation could cause
more of a headache than learning to translate. As an American, for
instance, we say "RO dee oh" while an Austrailian would say "ro DAY oh"
for the word Rodeo. Reading the word, whether spelled by American
pronunciation or by Austrailian pronunciation, I would be able to
translate just like one should be able to do when one speaks with a
Brittish accent, and American accent, or any non-native accent, there
are going to be differences. Who's to say which is correct?

--Star

=====
"Having been unpopular in high school is not just cause for book publications."
-Frank Lebowitz

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What happened to the other proposed alphabets that were
submitted to the judges? I would like to see them.





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You're probably best off researching that with the University of Reading. They have the archives, as far as I know.

www.reading.ac.uk <http://www.reading.ac.uk>

Hugh

----- Original Message -----
From: rico_harrison <mailto:rico_harrison@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:19 AM
Subject: [shavian] history question- other cadidates

What happened to the other proposed alphabets that were
submitted to the judges? I would like to see them.





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Am I dMIN rFt?

jim

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helO HX /Jim! welkam t H grMp!

jP mesiJ kEm Qt in H rOman Alfabet - trF salektiN "Ghoti" Az H font t Vz t rFt in /SEvIan - mOst pIpal wil hAv it instYld.

F TiNk V'D dMiN rFt - Just woc Qt wen VziN 'J' (J) - V wont kApital J, Az smYl J iz 'j' (Az in H kulD 'jelO').

Just Qt v kjUDIosatI - hQ did V fFnd Qt abQt His Alfabet?

Yl H best,
/hV

----- Original Message -----
From: JAMES MORGAN <mailto:jmorgantx@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:15 AM
Subject: [shavian] Newbie


Am I dMIN rFt?

jim

bIlIv it P nYt, F Am trFIN tM tIc mF su tM rId. F got interestd in simplifFd spelFN sistems. Tis alfabet wil tE sum getIN Vt tV.

rIggards,

/Jim

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trF vizatiN www.shavian.org <http://www.shavian.org> - it kantEnz sum gUD liNks HAt mFt kum in hAndI Az V get t grips wiH H Alfabet.

R V trFiN t lxn enI uHD "simplafFd speliN" sistamz, P OnlI /SEvIan?

wX it kumz t getiN Vst t H Alfabet: F'v bIn VziN /SEvIan fP 4 jCz, n kUd rId n rFt wiHQt a gFd wiHin a fV munTs v stRtiN t lxn. hQevD F'm stil lxniN hQ t rekagnFz wxdz subkonSaslI - F stil hAv t dM a lot v 'trAnzlESan' Az F rId TrM sumTiN in /SEvIan, but fR les HAn wen F fxst stRtad.

if wI pUt asFd H mAtD v lxniN t rekagnFz wxdz, wen F woz lxniN H rOman Alfabet, it tUk mI mOst v mF cFld lFf t lxn Yl H vXIas wxdz wiH HX od-bYl speliNz. in H tFm it tUk mI t lxn t rId+rFt /SEvIan, F hAd lxnt hQ t spel evrI siNgal wxd in H iNgliS lANgwaJ. HAt Just prMvz hQ rididjalas ritan /iNgliS kurantlI iz! :)

/hV

----- Original Message -----
From: JAMES MORGAN <mailto:jmorgantx@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:07 AM
Subject: [shavian] RE: Newbie


bIlIv it P nYt, F Am trFIN tM tIc mF su tM rId. F got interestd in simplifFd spelFN sistems. Tis alfabet wil tE sum getIN Vt tV.

rIggards,

/Jim

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hi,

/F hAv a kwik kweStan. wut duz wun dM wen trFiN t Vz individJMal letxz HAt reprIzent rOmAn letxz? fP instens, in rOmAn letxz, /F kUd rFt "HTML". wI Yl nO wut HAt mInz, but hQ kUd /F rFt it in /SEvWn?

TANks,

/skot...


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Both the Oxford English Dictionary and the brilliant Oxford Compendium which
pronounces the words for you are available on CD ROM. Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ewout Stam <teraiten@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Re: Learning Strategies


> >It is a good idea to have a way to check the accuracy of your sound
> >spellings. The only problem with the English Oxford dictionary is
> >that it is not generally available.
> >
> >If you don't mind speaking general amerian [GA] there are three
> >sources: www.m-w.com [Merriam Webster on-Line]
> >
> >Carnegie Mellon University
>
>
> In combination with Rosetta http://www.geocities.com/andy_callaway/ I
> convert whole texts to phonetic in order to gain a better insight in
> pronunciation.
>
> >Unifon: an apcl and c pEC
> >Spanglish: aen appl annd a piech
> >Truespel: an apul and u peech
> >Kirshenbaum: &n ap@l &nd @ piitS
> >SAMPA }n }p@l }nd @ piitS
>
> Erm, isn't a long vowel/consonant (long consonants occur in a few
languages)
> indicated by a colon? That doubled i suggest a pronunciation like
> 'peeyeech'.
>
> >> In order to teach Shavian it is essential to standardize the
> >pronunciation,
> >> so I use the pronunciation of the English Oxford Dictionary, which
> >is the
> >> basis for spelling, pronunciation, and usage of Standard English
> >(or
> >> Received English). American pronunciations would seriously
> >confuse the
> >> issue, as would a Scots, Irish or any British regional accent.
>
>
> They indeed confuse. I'm Dutch and at school (and by tv) we hear Recieved
(I
> call it posh) and American English all the time, and very little regional,
> Scots, Irish or other accents. When I'm in England (I have been there a
few
> times now) it really takes some effort trying to understand those people.
A
> friend of me often has a Scotsman (a friend of my friend) on the phone,
and
> they know everything about understandability based on pronunciation. The
> Scotsman started talking with a posh accent and miraculously there was no
> more need to say 'huh?' on the Dutch end of the line.
>
> The other nice thing about Shavian is that its characters consist of such
> simple forms. Writing is a lot less elaborate than in Roman. The question
> is, how far can you go before you become dyslexic? Not only does the
> Traditional Orthography make people dyslexic, letters which look alike can
> be a real pain in the bum too (Look online for Tengwar, from Tolkien's
Lord
> of the Rings , and see what I mean. It takes only a few minutes to learn,
> but confuses so quickly) So, how far can you go with a new writing system?
>
> Ewout
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



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Dear Steve, The Oxford English Dictionary is available on CD Rom and so is
the brilliant Oxford Compendium which contains a pretty comprehensive
dictionary which PRONOUNCES the words for you in a clear English voice. It
also embraces a thesaurus and The Oxford Book of Quotations.
I agree that the advantage of Shavian phonetics is to allow all varieties
of pronunciation but one must have a standard if one is to teach English by
using the 48 symbols under the word written in the Roman alphabet.
Regards, Richard Cutler



----- Original MessageFrom: stbett <stbett@...>
To: <shavian@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: [shavian] Re: Learning Strategies


> It is a good idea to have a way to check the accuracy of your sound
> spellings. The only problem with the English Oxford dictionary is
> that it is not generally available.
>
> If you don't mind speaking general amerian [GA] there are three
> sources: www.m-w.com [Merriam Webster on-Line]
>
> Carnegie Mellon University
> You can link to it from
> http://www.unifon.org/q-ref.html
>
> Foreignword.com
> http://www.foreignword.com/dictionary/truespel/transpel.htm
>
> I prefer an ascii-ipa for
>
> --- In shavian@y..., "richardcutler" <cutler@i...> wrote:
> > Greetings Vir,
> > The Shavian Alphabet interests me as a teaching tool. The method I
> am
> > developing might help your approach to learning it.
> > I believe in teaching the SOUND to the learner in combination with
> the
> > SYMBOL. Then I write the Shavian symbols under the word printed
> in the
> > English Alphabet. This has the added advantage of allowing the
> learner to
> > 'photograph' the irregular and illogical spellings of the English
> words
> > printed above the Shavian sound symbols, that sound alike but are
> spelled
> > differently. (For example: sleight and bite; sleigh and slay)
> > As I am not interested in Shavian as a means for writing fast or
> saving
> > space, I do not use the suggested abbreviations, since anyone
> learning
> > English needs to know that one says An Apple and A Peach.
> Abbreviations do
> > not make the distinction between A and AN or THE before a
> consonant and THE
> > (pronounced thee) before a vowel.
>
> Unifon: an apcl and c pEC
> Spanglish: aen appl annd a piech
> Truespel: an apul and u peech
> Kirshenbaum: &n ap@l &nd @ piitS
> SAMPA }n }p@l }nd @ piitS
>
>
>
> > In order to teach Shavian it is essential to standardize the
> pronunciation,
> > so I use the pronunciation of the English Oxford Dictionary, which
> is the
> > basis for spelling, pronunciation, and usage of Standard English
> (or
> > Received English). American pronunciations would seriously
> confuse the
> > issue, as would a Scots, Irish or any British regional accent.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



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