Shavian eGroup Archive Browser
From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2002-04-03 12:23:11 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
Have you got a scanner? Would you be able to find a way of scanning in what you write? It'd be interesting to compare handwriting styles of some people here.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: usmaak <mailto:usmaak@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Bingo Hugh, that's the exact quote I was looking for! Thanks. Now I will start playing around with joining them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:h.birkenhead@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Kingsley Read at the end of Androcles: "Avoid linking letters unnaturally. There is no need to link letters at all. But it frequently happens that the end of one letter naturally runs into the beginning of another; and the alphabet is so designed that this cannot produce alternative readings."
So basically, if you really feel that joining two letters would be more comfortable than not joining them, go ahead. If it doesn't feel natural, don't do it.
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: usmaak <mailto:usmaak@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
I think I actually read somewhere not to link the letters. I agree that there are places where it would link nicely. I will look through all the stuff I've downloaded on Shavian to see if I can find the source of my misunderstanding.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugh Birkenhead <mailto:h.birkenhead@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Shavian links very well! Normally you can tell when characters are supposed to be linked. Basically, any two characters that link EASILY with one another can be linked together. I do it, but sometimes I do it so much that it's barely legible to anyone else (like when I'm writing notes to myself).
Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: usmaak <mailto:usmaak@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
I thought that Shavian was not supposed to be linked. I can think of certain cases where linking would be easier, but I have always avoided it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Fitzgerald <mailto:mchlf@...>
To: Shavian eGroup <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:49 AM
Subject: [shavian] Written examples
Hullo, It looks like a lot of people are working with ways of typing in Shavian, but I would be interested to see examples of how people are handwriting it - how letters are being linked. Would it be possible to scan some examples and either post them as bitmaps or on a website somewhere? thanks, Michael
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2002-04-03 16:15:34 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
Darn... all I ever do is write it... too much trouble to learn to type
it right now... just wait, in the future, we will be able to have
keyboards just in shavian...
love and peace,
--Star
--- Michael Fitzgerald <mchlf@...> wrote:
> Hullo,It looks like a lot of people are working with ways of typing
> in Shavian, but I would be interested to see examples of how people
> are handwriting it - how letters are being linked.Would it be
> possible to scan some examples and either post them as bitmaps or on
> a website somewhere?thanks,Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>It
looks
like a lot of people are working with ways of typing in Shavian, but I
would be
interested to see examples of how people are handwriting it - how
letters are
being linked.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>Would it be
possible to scan some examples and either post them as bitmaps or on a
website
somewhere?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h1><span lang=EN-IE>Git lUks lFk a lot v pIpal R wxkiN wiH wEjz v
tFpiN in
GSEvWn, but F wUd bI intarestid t sI egzAmpalz v hQ pIpal R handrFtiN
it - hQ
letaz R bIiN linkt.</span></h1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h1><span lang=EN-IE>GPUd it bI posibal t skAn sum egsAmpalz n Fha post
Hem az
bitmApz P on a websFt sumwX?</span></h1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Ghoti;mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>Tanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Ghoti;mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'>GmFkal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-IE
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-IE'><![if
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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From: Hugh Birkenhead
Date: 2002-04-03 17:04:57 #
Subject: [shavian] Shavian Forums have returned!
Toggle Shavian
They're back!! At last!!
I've finally found an alternative host for the Shavian forums - our very own Philip Newton is now kindly hosting them on www.shavian.org <http://www.shavian.org> . If we were anywhere near a pub I'd buy him a pint! :)
Simply follow the link from the shavian.org website to get there.
Hugh
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From: Newton, Philip
Date: 2002-04-03 17:25:21 #
Subject: [shavian] shavian.org
Toggle Shavian
Hugh Birkenhead wrote:
> I've finally found an alternative host for the Shavian forums -
> our very own Philip Newton is now kindly hosting them on
> www.shavian.org.
And I'd like to repeat the offer -- if someone wants a mail forwarding
address @shavian.org, drop me a line (they're free). And if you want to
deposit stuff under www.shavian.org, drop me a line as well, and we'll talk
about it. Shouldn't be a problem, especially if you don't need more than a
meg or so.
(Caveat: if too many people take me up on the offer then the space available
per person will have to shrink or I'm going to want to ask for contribution
to the hosting fees for extra space.)
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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From: Michael Fitzgerald
Date: 2002-04-04 14:09:16 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
Hullo Hugh and others,
just worked my way through the handwritten version of
Shaw's test piece, and managed surprisingly well (I
thought!) considering I'd not read the piece before
and couldn't guess anything as I went along.
I came a bit unstuck on the 'OUt' sound as it looks a
bit like an 'h' when handwritten and I couldn't guess
how to resolve it; but I enjoyed the exercise so thank
you for providing it.
One query - in words like 'lingering' there's a 'g'
placed after the first 'ng' - is there a rule covering
this? Stress? (at the moment I would write it
'liNriN' myself).
I do have a scanner at home so I might try providing a
sample myself at some stage.
all the best,
Michael
--- Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@...> wrote: >
Have you got a scanner? Would you be able to find a
> way of scanning in what you write? It'd be
> interesting to compare handwriting styles of some
> people here.
>
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From: Michael Fitzgerald
Date: 2002-04-04 14:14:25 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
Hullo Star,
I know what you mean... a Shavian keyboard would be a
BIG help - maybe I'll 'doctor' an old one at home -
the effort in going 'the letter on _that_ key means
_that_ symbol, only remember to make it a capital'
means that typing in Shavian is very slow for me,
especially when I'm still starting with the script.
slán,
Michael
--- Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote: >
Darn... all I ever do is write it... too much
> trouble to learn to type
> it right now... just wait, in the future, we will be
> able to have
> keyboards just in shavian...
>
> love and peace,
> --Star
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From: Newton, Philip
Date: 2002-04-04 14:41:54 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
Michael Fitzgerald wrote:
> One query - in words like 'lingering' there's a 'g'
> placed after the first 'ng' - is there a rule covering
> this? Stress? (at the moment I would write it
> 'liNriN' myself).
A question for you: do you pronounce the two words "singer" (person who
sings) and "finger" (on your hand) exactly the same except for the first
letter?
For me, "singer" is "siND" in Shavian while "finger" is "fiNgD" -- that is,
"finger" is pronounce f-i-ng-g-e-r while "singer" is s-i-ng-e-r. Do you hear
the difference?
"Linger", for me, goes with "finger" since I pronounce a "g" after the "ng"
sound; "ringer" would go with "singer". And "singing" I would write "siNiN".
"liNriN" would evoke to me a Roman spelling like "ling-ring" or so. Do you
not pronounce it "ling-a-ring" (like "ring-a-ring of roses") and not
"ling-ge-ring"? I would probably spell the word "liNgariN" in Shavian.
Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>
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From: Star Raven
Date: 2002-04-04 16:01:50 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Shavian Forums have returned!
Toggle Shavian
I tried signing up for it, but it wouldn't let me. It was pretending to
let me regester, but to no avail...
--star
--- Hugh Birkenhead <h.birkenhead@...> wrote:
> They're back!! At last!!
>
> I've finally found an alternative host for the Shavian forums - our
> very own Philip Newton is now kindly hosting them on www.shavian.org.
> If we were anywhere near a pub I'd buy him a pint! :)
>
> Simply follow the link from the shavian.org website to get there.
>
> Hugh
>
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From: Robert McBroom
Date: 2002-04-04 16:11:43 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Difference between y and o in Shavian
Toggle Shavian
As a meager contribution to these ongoing questions of how things sound, or how sounds differ, I am announcing my humble addition to the brM-ha-ha.
I have uploaded to the Yahoo Shavian group's archive sound files of English and American vowels. There are also charts keyed to the sound files, with IPA symbols. (I have had these so long, I forget where they came from.)
Maybe these can serve as a yardstick by which we can measure our sound production, and an exercise where we can better train our "kulcx-bQnd Cz."
Ewout,
Thanks for your contribution.
"The difference between 'o' and 'y' is lip rounding."
The message originated in an exchange between myself
and Bob Schmertiz who was helping me transcribe the
Gettysberg Address for my Shavian page. I thought
some of the problems we were having were of general
interest so I copied them to both the Shavian and the
Saundspel {phonology forum} discussion groups.
Let me invite anyone with a Shavian or Quickscript
page to link it thru the "saundspel" ring
http://p.webring.com/hub?ring=saundspel <http://p.webring.com/hub?ring=saundspel>
Any page with information on the phonemic
transcription of English qualifies.
I think you are arguing that even GA speakers use y in
the yi /oi/ diphthong. [q] in Shavian.
The page we are trying to get right can be viewed at
the following URL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/Shaw-Alphabet/shaw-alfa.html <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saundspel/files/Shaw-Alphabet/shaw-alfa.html>
Steve
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--
- /bob /mk/brMm
/wUdstak /nV /jDk
"wun simpol iz az gUd Az anuHD prOvFdid
evriwun atAcez H sEm mIniN tM it."
- /JPJ /bxnRd /SY
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From: Michael Fitzgerald
Date: 2002-04-05 17:50:59 #
Subject: Re: [shavian] Written examples
Toggle Shavian
--- "Newton, Philip" <philip.newton@...>
wrote: "liNriN" would evoke to me a Roman spelling
like
> "ling-ring" or so. Do you
> not pronounce it "ling-a-ring" (like "ring-a-ring of
> roses") and not
> "ling-ge-ring"? I would probably spell the word
> "liNgariN" in Shavian.
Hi Philip,
I do hear the difference that you're pointing out here
- my own diction isn't really consistent though. My
parents would be so disapointed :-(
If I'm talking to myself, (which I do when I write
Shavian - well, my tongue tends to wander around
rehearsing the sounds), I do say "liNriN" (ling-ring);
but if I'm was speaking in public or reading out loud,
the "a" does creep in and I come out with "liNgariN" -
probably because of the extra air I'm playing with.
My vowel sounds would probably be more defined too,
there's a worrying amount of "a" in everything I
write!
cheers,
Michael
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