Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

At 05:01 PM 8/13/99 -0800, you wrote:
[snip]
>computer literate, but will attempt this. If you know anything about the
>location of a font and how to download it and use it in communication, I
>would be most grateful.
Try http://www.shavian.f9.co.uk/fonts.html for a start. :-)

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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At 11:35 AM 8/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
[snip]
>
>p.s. F wuz wundDiN if pDhAps /SEvWn kUd bI adAptid t fPan lANgwiJiz...
At a pinch it could be adapted for Esperanto, and indeed any other language
that has the English phonemes and no others. Beyond that it might be a
little difficult.


- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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nerd52-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian/?start=212
> I sould not read your message because I have not yet downloaded a
> Shavian font. I will try to do so today, if I can find one that will
> download to an Apple, and can figure out how to do it. I'm not
terribly
> computer literate, but will attempt this. If you know anything about
the
> location of a font and how to download it and use it in
communication, I
> would be most grateful.
I suggest you go to <a href="http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.
html">http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/shavian.html</a>. It is the
ULTIMATE Shavian link page. It will direct you to many web sites where
you can download Shavian fonts.


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nerd52-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/shavian/?start=213
> Hi Shavian Group!
> My name is Iain, and i have just been introduced to this fine
alphabet by a
> friend!

Welcome to the Shavian group, Iain! I always like to know another
individual has come to know Shavian.

> I hope to learn, practise and become fluent in it.

I will direct you to http://www.demeyere.com/Shavian.info where you can
view a PDF file that will help you learn. I am currently practicing
Shavian and I find it helps increase fluency if you copy
newspaper/magazine articles, paragraphs from books, etc. into Shavian
during your spare time, then read them back to yourself.


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> I will direct you to http://www.demeyere.com/Shavian.info
I meant http://www.demeyere.com/Shavian/info.html


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I can't download your IPA typewriter, as the file's too big and it gets
timed out. (Can you break it into manageable chunks?) Also, all my emails to
you are returned with the message: "relaying to <ghoti@...>
prohibited by administrator".

Simon Barne


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Dear co-Shavians,
Some remarks on my use of Shavian which you may like to respond to:
(1) The letters are generally easy to write, but I find when writing
(and not typing) it's time consuming to make the artistic curves in the
letters "ou," "oi," "ah," and "aw." So I simplify "ou" to <, and "oi" to
>. For the curves in the bottom of "ah" and "aw" I'm using a short perpendicular straight line. Does anyone foresee any problems with this?

(2) The shapes of the tall and deep letters are form related. Has
anyone ever tried using the alphabet with sufferers of dyslexia? I
wonder if this similarity is easier or harder for dyslexia sufferers.

(3) For many years before the production of Braille books was
computerized (thanks to Heaven!!) I transcribed Braille books by hand.
Braille uses a rather complex set of abbreviations, because otherwise
books would be too bulky. It turns out that the use of the abbreviations
also makes reading and writing much faster. By abbreviating the 70 most
common words in English speed of reading and writing is significantly
increased.
(a) Writing phonetically already reduces the intolerable burden
traditional English spelling places on students. (I'm a former
elementary school bilingual teacher, and my heart bled for all the
students who thought they were stupid because they couldn't handle the
traditional irrational English spelling.) In a sense, spelling
phonetically leaves the student with a lot of extra energy, and
memorizing the additional abbreviations does not seem to require all
that much effort, especially since the abbreviations are phonetically
related to the words they represent. The script as it stands already has
4 such abbreviations; I have just expanded the list.
(b) Since I have been writing letters and transcribing books, I have
found the reduction in effort to be be considerable. Less writer's cramp
considerably.

The abbreviations are formed of single letters or letter combinations
which standing by themselves have no meaning in any dialect of English
that I can find. A sample of the most basic abbreviations:

[LEVEL 1a]

p = people t = to k = can f = for thigh = with
b = but d = do g = go v = of they = the
s = so sh = she ch = each y = yet
z = is j = just w = we h = he
l = like m = me i (if) = in ash = as ou = out
on/ah = on r = are n = and yu = you

I have about 40 other abbreviations I commonly use (e.g. ab = about). An
11-year-old friend who is experimenting with me has had no trouble using
the complete list of abbreviations, either in reading or writing. We did
find it easier to introduce the abbreviations right off and not
substitute them little by little for spelled out words.
(4) I have not trouble in writing most Slavic languages with Shavian. I
tried it. Of course Cyrillic and modified Latin are completely well
adapted to. English is the thorn in people's sides with its absurd
spelling.
Thanks for your attention! Dr.Daniel Szczurek, MST, Ph.D.
(Anthropological Linguistics)

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Just F.Y.I.: Although Esperanto is already phonetically spelled and so
does not need Shavian, a man in Kalamazoo (MI, USA) has adapted it.

But note that he reassigned several characters to better fit Esperanto's
set of sounds. If one has not learned the English sounds associated with
each symbol, then the Esperanto version works very well. But those who
already know the English will probably have very harsh words to say
about the Esperanto version.

If anyone has any more interest in this, email me and I can send you more
info. (I'm not promoting this, just passing along information.)

--Phillip Driscoll
phild@...



>At 11:35 AM 8/13/99 -0700, A.M. Callaway wrote:
>At a pinch it could be adapted for Esperanto, and indeed any other language
>that has the English phonemes and no others. Beyond that it might be a
>little difficult.



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> (4) I have not trouble in writing most Slavic languages with
> Shavian. I
> tried it. Of course Cyrillic and modified Latin are completely well
> adapted to. English is the thorn in people's sides with its absurd
> spelling.

I'd be interested in how you manage that as the phonetic repertoire is
different from that of English. For example, the <kh> sound doesn't exist in
English, and the <ts> sound might want to be displayed with one letter to
match Cyrillic (and the Latin used in e.g. Croatia and Poland), which uses
one letter -- rather than spelling it <t><s>. Also the Russian <shch> is
written with one letter in Cyrillic, though I believe Polish uses two (s´c´
IIRC), so one could use <sh><ch> (sure+church). And what about yeri (bI in
Cyrillic, y in Polish)? And soft and hard signs? And differentiating between
<e> and <ye>?

Cheers,
Philip

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Hello Daniel
At 06:21 PM 8/18/99 -0800, Daniel Gregory Szczurek wrote:
>Dear co-Shavians,
[snip]

> (2) The shapes of the tall and deep letters are form related. Has
>anyone ever tried using the alphabet with sufferers of dyslexia?

No. But it's certainly an exercise worth conducting. My personal feeling is
that it would be harder. The letters are all similar, and I think (correct
me anyone if I'm wrong) that with one form of dyslexia the sufferer has
trouble with orientation; that is to say the letters b,p,q & d are all the
same to them, and also n & u. Shavian, I think, would exacerbate this
problem. Have you looked at Quickscript? Visit Bob Richmond's page at
http://members.aol.com/RSRICHMOND/quickscript.html for a look-see. It's
somewhat more distinctive than Shavian. The characters are a little more
complex.

> (a) Writing phonetically already reduces the intolerable burden
>traditional English spelling places on students. (I'm a former
>elementary school bilingual teacher, and my heart bled for all the
>students who thought they were stupid because they couldn't handle the
>traditional irrational English spelling.) In a sense, spelling
>phonetically leaves the student with a lot of extra energy, and
Hear, Hear to that.

>memorizing the additional abbreviations does not seem to require all
>that much effort, especially since the abbreviations are phonetically
>related to the words they represent. The script as it stands already has
>4 such abbreviations; I have just expanded the list.
I have trouble with the current abbreviations. I'm constantly stumbling on
them. More of then would make it, for me at least, even more difficult.

[snip]
> Thanks for your attention! Dr.Daniel Szczurek, MST, Ph.D.
>(Anthropological Linguistics)
Pleasure.

- .+'^'+. A.M.Callaway ----------------- acal@...
- A N D Y Melbourne, Australia --- a.callaway@...
- `+.,.+' www.ozemail.com.au/~acal -------------------------

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