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<000001be7514$5fe39a60$373d883-@hugh> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/list/shavian/?start=45


> The name "shavian.org" is currently unused, so I hereby propose to all those
> 'veterans' amongst us that we poll our resources and start the creation of
> this central site.
>
> Well, to quote a well-known line: "ALL THOSE IN FAVOUR SAY 'AYE'!"
>
> Hugh Birkenhead
>
>
I agree on having a central Shavian site. "shavian.org" sounds like a good choice. What is the cost of registering the name? Everyone should get their vote in one way or the other so that the cost for a charter member could be calculated.

Neil Stewart

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In response to what Dennis Falk said:

>> First off, I've checked my email headers- It does show "TEXT/PLAIN", so I
don't understand what's wrong with eGroups' handling of my posts here... <<

Try asking E-groups - that's all I can suggest. They should be quite
disturbed if their system has a problem...

>> As for HTML-based email, I cannot read it online, as I'm on a text-only
shell account here... _HOWEVER_, I can download & upload HTML-written texts,
so I can read online Shavian offline at my convenience... :) <<

Super! If your mail reader can handle it, that's all you need.

>> As for a central site for Shavian, I agree- A central site offering info
on Shavian with links to various resources online (as well as its own
resources) would be quite helpful... :) <<

Helpful? It'd be marvellous!! :) Thanks for telling me what you think -
anyone else got any thoughts on the matter?

>> On pronunciation, as I've tried to say, don't write Shavian in your
accent based on the pronunciation of the letters according the perscribed
accent (Northern English, King George V(?)), but spell according to how
_you_ pronounce the letters' names- It should _minimise_ spelling
differences. <<

A B S O L U T E L Y ! ! ! I couldn't agree more!! Everyone reading this,
listen to what this guy has to say!! It couldn't be better said!! If we all
learn by THIS method, I don't see why there will ever be any accent-related
spelling disputes in the future. Thanks Dennis!!

>> As for further development of Shavian, this should be left open to
possibilities, but a radical change should not be made that renders previous
published works useless... <<

All true. As is repeated throughout 'Androcles', the alphabet will be
developed by usage, not by 'fiat' (as Lee Miller said earlier). We probably
won't notice any changes that do occur, because they will happen so
gradually.

>> Should Shavian be linked to Shaw? For historical sake, yes, but it should
_never_ be limited in such scope. That's why I say "Shavian" rather than
"Shaw Alphabet", by the way... :) I never got into Shavian because of Shaw-
Hell, I've never _seen_ a copy of "Androcles...", except what few examples
have been offered on the web... <<

Yet again, very well said! The alphabet has to move FORWARD now; the history
is all very well, but it does nothing to help the alphabet reach a 'higher
state of being' (which is the next thing we SHOULD be aiming for now). Also,
I doubt Shaw wanted the alphabet just to get his name into the history
books; he would have been just as happy if no one ever knew where Shavian
came from.

Once again, Thanks Dennis!

Hugh


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> I agree on having a central Shavian site. "shavian.org"
> sounds like a good choice. What is the cost of registering
> the name?

AFAIK $70 for the first two years and $35 per year therafter. This is just
InterNIC fees for the right to the name shavian.org; then you need to find
somebody willing to provide DNS service and web space for the site :). For
example, Superb Internet Corp. http://www.superb.net/ supposedly has good
service and would also take over the hassle of registering the name with
InterNIC for you (http://www2.superb.net/SET-UP/domreg.html). Prices for a
virtual domain start at $9 a month (if you pay a year at a time). This is
without a separate IP address, with 10 MB of disk space, CGI and SSI
capability. Otherwise, there are a couple of zillion web space providers
with varying prices, service levels, disk space offers &c. and another
umpteen "domain name reservation" services where you can "park" a name
(usually meaning the name is reserved but points only to a "coming soon"
site).

> Everyone should get their vote in one way or the
> other so that the cost for a charter member could be calculated.

I'm for it.

Cheers,
Philip

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>> >> On pronunciation, as I've tried to say, don't write Shavian in your
accent based on the pronunciation of the letters according the perscribed
accent (Northern English, King George V(?)), but spell according to how
_you_ pronounce the letters' names- It should _minimise_ spelling
differences. << <<

>> A B S O L U T E L Y ! ! ! I couldn't agree more!! Everyone reading this,
listen to what this guy has to say!! It couldn't be better said!! If we all
learn by THIS method, I don't see why there will ever be any accent-related
spelling disputes in the future. Thanks Dennis!! <<

Accent-related spelling disputes can happen when someone's idiolect does not
distinguish between sounds. For example, some Americans do not distinguish
between the "on" and "awe" sounds; they would presumably pick one or the
other, which might jar with people who distinguish between the two sounds.
However, I agree that this should reduce spelling differences.

Aksent-rilEtad speliN dispVts kan hApan wen sumunz idiOlekt duz not
distiNgwiS batwIn sQndsz. fP egzympl, sum amXakanz dM not distiNgwiS batwIn
H (on) n (Y) sQndz; HE wUd prazVmablI pik wun P H uHD, wic mFt JR wiH pIpl
hM distiNgwiS batwIn H tM sQndz. hQevD, F agrI HAt His SUd radVs speliN
difDansaz.

cCz,

filip



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> Aksent-rilEtad speliN dispVts kan hApan wen sumunz idiOlekt duz not

Hmmm... I *had* selected HTML, but apparently either my Outlook 98 or
eGroups changed it to text... sorry :(

Cheers,
Philip

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Philip Newton wrote:

> Accent-related spelling disputes can happen when someone's idiolect does not
> distinguish between sounds. For example, some Americans do not distinguish
> between the "on" and "awe" sounds; they would presumably pick one or the
> other, which might jar with people who distinguish between the two sounds.
> However, I agree that this should reduce spelling differences.

Exactly. You say Tot-Ado-Mime-Age-Tot-OAk,
I say Tot-Ado-Mime-AH-Tot-OAk.

And we're not just concerned with transatlantic differences here: I'm English, but
when I write in Shavian I'm also imitating a foreign accent, because I try to type
in a sort of modernised Androcles-standard Received Pronunciation accent, while
my speaking voice is that of a yokel-Midlander. The distribution of my phonemes is
different from that of Hugh's phonemes, say, because his accent is closer to RP.

I think this is the greatest weakness of a phonemic alphabet. If we're to conform to
a standard (for formal texts, say, such as books, or documents available on web
sites -- if not in email discussion), then one accent is implicitly asserted to be
superior to all others, or at least "more standard". And this places everyone else
at a slight disadvantage. Having said that, there are at least two different
standardised spelling systems of English using the Roman alphabet (American
and British/International), which are fundamentally similar, and which are intelligible
to all English speakers, regardless of their accent. I'd find it hard to imitate, for
example, an American Mid-Western accent in Shavian, since I might not be sure of
the distribution of its phonemes -- but I don't have any problem understanding any
American writer's Shavian. As long as we all try to use the 48 Shavian letters to
approximate as best we can our own accents, I don't think there should be any
problem with mutual intelligibility, even if our spellings might differ a little. As for a
standard, formal paradigm of Shavian spelling, do we really need one?

Lionel



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Does this text come out right? It should display in HTML.

duz His tekst jum Qt rFt? it SUd displE in h.t.m.l.

Thanks,

Hugh
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<001901be76fd$a5ce0b60$c41e883-@hugh> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/list/shavian/?start=75
> Does this text come out right? It should display in HTML.
>
> duz His tekst jum Qt rFt? it SUd displE in h.t.m.l.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hugh
>
>
It came out as upper and lower case Roman.
I have AOL3.0 . I will be downloading AOL4.0 this coming weekend.
Maybe it will make a difference then.

Neil Stewart

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In the message "[shavian] Just testing HTML" dated 1999.03.25 (3:25 PM -0500), Hugh Birkenhead wrote:


Does this text come out right? It should display in HTML.



duz His tekst jum Qt rFt? it SUd displE in h.t.m.l.


It yums out fine for me. =^.^=

hOpfuli mi mesigiz kum Qt az wel on uTx sistemz.

--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam

I'd explain it to you but your brain would explode.


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In the message "[shavian] Just testing HTML" dated 1999.03.25 (3:25 PM -0500), Hugh Birkenhead wrote:


Does this text come out right? It should display in HTML.



duz His tekst jum Qt rFt? it SUd displE in h.t.m.l.


It yums out fine for me. =^.^=

hOpfuli mi mesigiz kum Qt az wel on uTx sistemz.

--
Michael J. Rider, aka Ixbalam http://i.am/ixbalam

I'd explain it to you but your brain would explode.
________________________________

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