Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

hOld it GJOzif...

H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF webspEs (it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs kwOta.

if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI Az H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest kUd cEnJ mF mFnd. it rIalI iz gUd fP lxniN hQ t rId n rFt HO, bikoz it fPsaz V t Vz GSEvIan, sO V kynt 'kop Qt' n rivxt t GrOman wen it gets difikalt.

sO - GJOzif - dOnt abAndan His plEs jet fP sumwX HAt mFt not Ivan bI HX bF H end v H jC (unles mP pIpal tEk intDest).

GhV


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@... <mailto:stetsdigs@...> >
To: <shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> >
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:31 AM
Subject: [shavian] Hello and Goodbye


> I am leaving, for a better place, a place where shavian is de rigeur.
>
> I am going to that messageboard which Hugh started. It appears to
> work yet, and so that is where I am going to hang, posting solely in
> shavian.
>
> Hugh's message was very clear, and sharp is the point: if we stay at
> home complaining, then the tyrant never gets toppled.
>
> That is, why bitch about roman, in roman, congratulating ourselves
> for having found a better script, and yet never using that script?
>
> I don't wish to annoy anybody, but you have to see the
> irony/hypocrisy of it, surely?
>
> To be honest, I am not fluent in reading shavian because I get to
> read it so unoften. There is little incentive for a person to use
> shavian, we must at least give them something to read, even if it is
> only our complaining.
>
> I think I'm finished now. Sorry if it hurts to say, but here we are
> not doing a thing to help shavian move forward.
>
> Go to www.shavian.org <http://www.shavian.org> and follow the link to find Hugh's board.
>
> God be, and thanks
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
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hOld it GJOzif...

H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF webspEs (it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs kwOta.

if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI Az H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest kUd cEnJ mF mFnd. it rIalI iz gUd fP lxniN hQ t rId n rFt HO, bikoz it fPsaz V t Vz GSEvIan, sO V kynt 'kop Qt' n rivxt t GrOman wen it gets difikalt.

sO - GJOzif - dOnt abAndan His plEs jet fP sumwX HAt mFt not Ivan bI HX bF H end v H jC (unles mP pIpal tEk intDest).

GhV


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@... <mailto:stetsdigs@...> >
To: <shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...> >
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:31 AM
Subject: [shavian] Hello and Goodbye


> I am leaving, for a better place, a place where shavian is de rigeur.
>
> I am going to that messageboard which Hugh started. It appears to
> work yet, and so that is where I am going to hang, posting solely in
> shavian.
>
> Hugh's message was very clear, and sharp is the point: if we stay at
> home complaining, then the tyrant never gets toppled.
>
> That is, why bitch about roman, in roman, congratulating ourselves
> for having found a better script, and yet never using that script?
>
> I don't wish to annoy anybody, but you have to see the
> irony/hypocrisy of it, surely?
>
> To be honest, I am not fluent in reading shavian because I get to
> read it so unoften. There is little incentive for a person to use
> shavian, we must at least give them something to read, even if it is
> only our complaining.
>
> I think I'm finished now. Sorry if it hurts to say, but here we are
> not doing a thing to help shavian move forward.
>
> Go to www.shavian.org <http://www.shavian.org> and follow the link to find Hugh's board.
>
> God be, and thanks
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
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And if not now, then when?

I support a move, perhaps simply to a bulleton board online or
something, but I suggest either having a clickable keyboard or else
allowing us to use a more finger friendly font.

Semi-Dvorak, anyone?

--Star

--- Joseph Smith <stetsdigs@...> wrote:
> I will write in shavian, but I cannot display it in this forum. The
> same goes for several other people here.
>
> We need a place where shavian font is easily displayed and is the
> automatic choice of font. Also, we must move lock stock and barrel to
>
> there. Nothing else will work.
>
> I am behind the move, but we must all agree.
>
> Tell me, if we use it not then who will?
>
> Thanks, and in all seriousness,
> Joseph
>
> <shavian>fP gudnes sEk, let uz mMv fPwDd</shavian>
>
>
> --- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ethan
> > To: shavian@...
> > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [shavian] Learning curve
> >
> >
> > 12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often?
> If you use html,
> > you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show
>
> up for most
> > people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface,
>
> and who have
> > the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw,
> Androcles, ...
> >
> > I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text.
> If everyone
> > would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it
>
> would help
> > others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.
> >
> > I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in
> html, but I can
> > always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up
>
> inline (in the
> > same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach
>
> this entire
> > message in Shavian.
> >
> > Ethan
> > The chicken came first.
> > You're not the first to suggest this:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mitch Morris
> > To: shavian@...
> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:44 PM
> > Subject: [shavian] Shavian, The list and me [font fix]
> >
> >
> > His iz sumTiN Hat F wuz TiNkiN AboQt tMdE Hat E wontd t sX. sumTiN
> Hat E HiNk H SavWn kOmVnitI nIdz iz E plEs t diskus genxul stuf.
> DiskuSin simulD t TOz mesiJ bPdz wX pIpul Just tYk AbQt stuf eksept
> Ql pOsts R in SavWn. F am mP Han wiliN t hOst suc E bPd on mF web sFt
>
> if pIpul won. UHXwiz wI kud Just Vz His list. nQ F wil stRt wun. EnI
> wun hC plE kompVtD gEmz? E Just got mist 3, wun Ysum game. enI wun
> wont t tYk abQt it?
> >
> > That wasn't the first time either...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Hugh Birkenhead
> > To: shavian@...
> > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:17 AM
> > Subject: [shavian] And now for something completely different...
> >
> >
> > hF,
> >
> > F hAv disFdid t rFt in /SEvian bikoz H Onli stuf HAt hAz bIn
> sxkjUlEtiN rIsantli hAz bIn stuf HAt kwescanz H veri nEcD v /SEvian.
> wFl F'm not agenst it, F TiNk wI SUd lE it Yl t wun sFd, krAk Opan a
> bC, n tYk a bit in /SEvian. F mIn, hC'z His wundDfUl Alfabet HAt iz
> hel betD HAn H wun it riplEsiz, n Yl wI kAn TiNk t dM iz tYk abQt
> it... :)
> >
> > sO hC F Am, tYkiN in it. HX iz nO rIzan fP it, but wot H hel. F
> inJq rFtiN in it. HAt's wun v H TiNz F inJq abQt H Alfabet mOst. jet
> F hAvant hAd H cyns in fR tM loN, n F TiNk H /SEvian mEliN list SUd
> bI H prFm plEs t dM it.
> >
> > kum on Hen evriwun, let's lE dFalekts, Vs v kAriktDz, stuf lFk HAt,
>
> Yl t wun sFd fP a mOmant n mEk sum prAktikal Vs v His wundDfUl
> Alfabet.
> >
> > /hV
> >
> > There have been many attempts to get Shavian chat going. Bottom
> line is, it never keeps going. It's all too easy to revert to Roman.
> The Shavian forums I started with the hope of making it easier to
> read/write Shavian by practice never took off and had to be closed.
> I'll be glad to start talking in Shavian just for the hell of it,
> again, but talking *about* the alphabet always seems to take
> precedence! Oh well...
> >
> > best kIp trFiN Hen! hC'z a gUd TiN t stRt wiH. if His lUks stoJI HX
>
> iz a wE t mEk it smMHD At HIz sFzaz, in /windOz /eks /pI - gO t
> displE propDtIz (in kantrOl pAnal), apCans tab, ifekts, n cEnJ
> H "meTad t smMH eJiz v skrIn fonts" t "klCtFp". it smMHz fonts v Yl
> sFzaz, not Just lRJD sFzaz (Az iz H dIfYlt). giv it a trF.
> >
> > GhV
>
>


=====
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12/01/03 9:46:18 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...> wrote:
(attached)

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The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I can
see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display Shavian.

--Star

p.s. Am I the only woman here?

--- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> 12/01/03 9:46:18 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
> wrote:
> (attached)
>
---------------------------------

hOld it GJOzif...
H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF webspEs
(it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs kwOta.
if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI Az
H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest kUd
cEnJ mF mFnd. it rIalI iz gUd fP lxniN hQ t rId n rFt HO, bikoz it
fPsaz V t Vz GSEvIan, sO V kynt 'kop Qt' n rivxt t GrOman wen it gets
difikalt.
sO - GJOzif - dOnt abAndan His plEs jet fP sumwX HAt mFt not Ivan bI HX
bF H end v H jC (unles mP pIpal tEk intDest).
GhV


/hV, hQ muc spEs duz jP mesiJ bPd tEk up? Fm SMD sumTiN kAn bI dun t
kIp it in opDESan. pxhAps F kAn bI v sum asistans. it wUd bI a SEm t
Just let it gO awE dM t lAk v spEs, munI, P intrest.
rIgRdz,
/ITan



=====
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On 2 Dec 2003 at 2:46, Hugh Birkenhead wrote:

> H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF
> webspEs (it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs
> kwOta.
>
> if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI
> Az H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest
> kUd cEnJ mF mFnd.

Scott Harrison kindly offered to host shavian.org, and I may be taking
him up on that offer. In this case, the board should be able to stay.

[I really need to get things going on that front. Thanks for the
reminder.]

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>


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On 1 Dec 2003 at 15:53, Star Raven wrote:

> I think what would work best is a
> book that begins in TO and ends in Shavian, slowly changing from one to
> the other.

I saw a book like that, only it taught a slightly modified form of
Shavian that was designed for Esperanto. And it, too, gradually
replaced more and more letters with Shavian until the book was entirely
in Shavian.

> Start with laugh at the fat cat, and end with "And so it was that Jesus
> appeared before the Nephytes" or what have you.

Jesus appearing to the Nephites? :) Don't see that referred to often.

Cheers,
Philip
--
Philip Newton <Philip.Newton@...>


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F wil rFt in SyvWn wiH His grMp tM. but sins F dOn't On mF On kompVtx it iz diffikult fP mI t kIp it konsistant. hQevx V hAv mF vOt HAt F wil rFt in SyvWn HO F kAn't sI it Az SyvWn bIkuz F dOn't hAv a font.

best rIgRdz,

kRal
Joseph Smith <stetsdigs@...> wrote:

I will write in shavian, but I cannot display it in this forum. The
same goes for several other people here.

We need a place where shavian font is easily displayed and is the
automatic choice of font. Also, we must move lock stock and barrel to
there. Nothing else will work.

I am behind the move, but we must all agree.

Tell me, if we use it not then who will?

Thanks, and in all seriousness,
Joseph

<shavian>fP gudnes sEk, let uz mMv fPwDd</shavian>


--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ethan
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [shavian] Learning curve
>
>
> 12/01/03 3:36:44 PM, carl easton <shavintel16@y...> wrote:
>
> I have an idea. Why not use Shavian in this group more often?
If you use html,
> you can designate Shavian fonts for your text, and it should show
up for most
> people who use html-capable email software, or the web interface,
and who have
> the common Shavian fonts installed, i.e. Ghoti, Lionspaw,
Androcles, ...
>
> I see a lot of dialog here, but it's almost all in Roman text.
If everyone
> would use even just a little bit of Shavian in their postings, it
would help
> others as well as themselves for learning Shavian.
>
> I don't currently have an email program capable of composing in
html, but I can
> always attach a self-composed html message, and it should show up
inline (in the
> same page) with the email. I'll make this one a test, and attach
this entire
> message in Shavian.
>
> Ethan
> The chicken came first.
> You're not the first to suggest this:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mitch Morris
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:44 PM
> Subject: [shavian] Shavian, The list and me [font fix]
>
>
> His iz sumTiN Hat F wuz TiNkiN AboQt tMdE Hat E wontd t sX. sumTiN
Hat E HiNk H SavWn kOmVnitI nIdz iz E plEs t diskus genxul stuf.
DiskuSin simulD t TOz mesiJ bPdz wX pIpul Just tYk AbQt stuf eksept
Ql pOsts R in SavWn. F am mP Han wiliN t hOst suc E bPd on mF web sFt
if pIpul won. UHXwiz wI kud Just Vz His list. nQ F wil stRt wun. EnI
wun hC plE kompVtD gEmz? E Just got mist 3, wun Ysum game. enI wun
wont t tYk abQt it?
>
> That wasn't the first time either...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hugh Birkenhead
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:17 AM
> Subject: [shavian] And now for something completely different...
>
>
> hF,
>
> F hAv disFdid t rFt in /SEvian bikoz H Onli stuf HAt hAz bIn
sxkjUlEtiN rIsantli hAz bIn stuf HAt kwescanz H veri nEcD v /SEvian.
wFl F'm not agenst it, F TiNk wI SUd lE it Yl t wun sFd, krAk Opan a
bC, n tYk a bit in /SEvian. F mIn, hC'z His wundDfUl Alfabet HAt iz
hel betD HAn H wun it riplEsiz, n Yl wI kAn TiNk t dM iz tYk abQt
it... :)
>
> sO hC F Am, tYkiN in it. HX iz nO rIzan fP it, but wot H hel. F
inJq rFtiN in it. HAt's wun v H TiNz F inJq abQt H Alfabet mOst. jet
F hAvant hAd H cyns in fR tM loN, n F TiNk H /SEvian mEliN list SUd
bI H prFm plEs t dM it.
>
> kum on Hen evriwun, let's lE dFalekts, Vs v kAriktDz, stuf lFk HAt,
Yl t wun sFd fP a mOmant n mEk sum prAktikal Vs v His wundDfUl
Alfabet.
>
> /hV
>
> There have been many attempts to get Shavian chat going. Bottom
line is, it never keeps going. It's all too easy to revert to Roman.
The Shavian forums I started with the hope of making it easier to
read/write Shavian by practice never took off and had to be closed.
I'll be glad to start talking in Shavian just for the hell of it,
again, but talking *about* the alphabet always seems to take
precedence! Oh well...
>
> best kIp trFiN Hen! hC'z a gUd TiN t stRt wiH. if His lUks stoJI HX
iz a wE t mEk it smMHD At HIz sFzaz, in /windOz /eks /pI - gO t
displE propDtIz (in kantrOl pAnal), apCans tab, ifekts, n cEnJ
H "meTad t smMH eJiz v skrIn fonts" t "klCtFp". it smMHz fonts v Yl
sFzaz, not Just lRJD sFzaz (Az iz H dIfYlt). giv it a trF.
>
> GhV



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Hi Star,

I see what you mean. I can't display Shavian either. But when I do or when other people do it looks like you said "romanji gibberish". It's almost like read a code. But... until I can afford a computer of my own I can't enjoy reading everybodies messages in our favorite writing system, Shavian.

best of regards,

Carl

Star Raven <celestraof12worlds@...> wrote:

The fact remains, gentlemen, that what you see below is all that I can
see... Romanji gibberish. I don't have the capacity to display Shavian.

--Star

p.s. Am I the only woman here?

--- Ethan <ethanl@...> wrote:
> 12/01/03 9:46:18 PM, "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@...>
> wrote:
> (attached)
>
---------------------------------

hOld it GJOzif...
H sAd fAkt iz, F kAnt afPd t kIp H mesaJ bPd up HX. it's not mF webspEs
(it's Gfilip GnVtan'z) n it's kYziN him t eksId hiz spEs kwOta.
if pIpal R rIalI kIn t get H bPd gOiN propDlI HE'd best dM sO kwiklI Az
H bPd woznt gOiN t bI DQnd fP muc longD - mEbI a sxJ in intDest kUd
cEnJ mF mFnd. it rIalI iz gUd fP lxniN hQ t rId n rFt HO, bikoz it
fPsaz V t Vz GSEvIan, sO V kynt 'kop Qt' n rivxt t GrOman wen it gets
difikalt.
sO - GJOzif - dOnt abAndan His plEs jet fP sumwX HAt mFt not Ivan bI HX
bF H end v H jC (unles mP pIpal tEk intDest).
GhV


/hV, hQ muc spEs duz jP mesiJ bPd tEk up? Fm SMD sumTiN kAn bI dun t
kIp it in opDESan. pxhAps F kAn bI v sum asistans. it wUd bI a SEm t
Just let it gO awE dM t lAk v spEs, munI, P intrest.
rIgRdz,
/ITan



=====
From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master Hakuin

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Philip Newton wrote:
>
> On 1 Dec 2003 at 15:53, Star Raven wrote:
>
> > I think what would work best is a
> > book that begins in TO and ends in Shavian, slowly changing from one to
> > the other.
>
> I saw a book like that, only it taught a slightly modified form of
> Shavian that was designed for Esperanto. And it, too, gradually
> replaced more and more letters with Shavian until the book was entirely
> in Shavian.


That book was published by an acquaintence of mine.
(I'm the one who first introduced him to Shavian.) I'd say
the modifications to Shavian to fit Esperanto's sound
system were more than slight, although it works well and
maintains a kind of symetry. Those who have learned
traditional Shavian may not like it. (The book was reviewed
in an Esperanto-language magazine by a German man
who had previously learned Shavian for English. In his
review, he was horrified that anyone would change the
sound values of any Shavian letters.)

If you read Esperanto, and want a copy, I still have a
few copies around here. Let me know your mailing
address, and I'll send you one. (It's an Esperanto version
of a science fiction story called "Tri-gamba Jocxjo"
[= "Three-legged Joe."])

While we're on the subject of beginners' books. This
book is an excellent example of how NOT to introduce
Shavian. In chapter one, four Shavian characters are
introduced. Words are written in Latin letters with those
four Shavian characters replacing the corresponding
Latin ones. In chapter two, four more characters are
introduced.

The problem is that we don't read by looking at the
individual letters. We read by recognizing an entire
word at a time. So in each chapter of the book, I need
to relearnall the words I've seen in previous chapters
because another letter has been introduced.

It would be far better to introduce all letters at once, but
introduce a small set of short common words spelled
completely in Shavian with the other text in Latin. Such
words as _the, is, are, pronouns_, etc. as a start, then
slowly add more of the short words in Shavian, etc.,
until eventually the entire text is in Shavian.

--Phillip Driscoll
--phild@...



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