Shavian eGroup Archive Browser

hI fel in lUv wiH a druNkardz daoter.

SI konfesd SI lUvd him tM.

sO it woznt loN until SI sed, "F dM" n HE wer wed.

SI woz H dYter v a drunkard, hMm SI left t liv awE.

her lFf hAd ben sAd n lOnli.

it got sAder from HAt dE.

'koz H gF SI mErId got druNk 20 jirz agO tanFt,

n hAznt ben sOber sins. kAn ja understAnd her plFt?

SI woz H dYter v a drunkard, hMm SI left t liv awE.

her lFf hAd ben sAd n wEward, n it cEnJd--- not..muc..t..sE.

---beT Adison

'`````````````````````````````````````````````:

hI fel in lUv wiH a druNkardz daoter.

SI konfesd SI lUvd him tM.

sO it woznt loN until SI sed, "F dM" n HE wer wed.

SI woz H dYter v a drunkard, hMm SI left t liv awE.

her lFf hAd ben sAd n lOnli.

it got sAder from HAt dE.

'koz H gF SI mErId got druNk 20 jirz agO tanFt,

n hAznt ben sOber sins. kAn ja understAnd her plFt?

SI woz H dYter v a drunkard, hMm SI left t liv awE.

her lFf hAd ben sAd n wEward, n it cEnJd--- not..muc..t..sE.

---beT Adison

subJekt: drunk luv lav lUv...wot H wPld nIdz now - nQ

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""":

""""""""""""": '''''':

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'

sss: sender

rrr: responder x

```````````:

''''''''''':

>>>:

<<<:

rrr:

'''''''''''''''''''''''''' of Yf

fFl: 811druNk.




I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english

t = to e = the v = of n = and

A E I O U az in Age Eat ... yoU

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>


> But the point IS that there is a stress difference. I think the dead
> horse we keep on beating here is that a stress difference is a phonemic
> difference. Hugh, your thoughts?
>
> --Star

Exactly. French is a language without any noticeable stress. Many French
people who try to speak English end up speaking words as if they were
French, e.g. "lett-airrr" (letter), "sta-shon" (station), etc.

English is a language with clearly defined stress and non-stress of word
syllables. We say "LEH-ter", "STAY-shun". The vowels of unstressed syllables
are generally reduced to the 'schwa', i.e. 'ado', or the rhotic form
'array'.

To keep this natural stressed/unstressed rhythm of the words somewhat
preserved in Shavian, the 'ado'/'up' and 'array'/'err' differences were
incorporated. The text of (the most holy) Androcles shows this intention
clearly. It's a pity Read never highlighted it in the introduction as it
would have cleared up a lot of the confusion we currently see.

Hugh B


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@...>


> But the point IS that there is a stress difference. I think the dead
> horse we keep on beating here is that a stress difference is a phonemic
> difference. Hugh, your thoughts?
>
> --Star

Exactly. French is a language without any noticeable stress. Many French
people who try to speak English end up speaking words as if they were
French, e.g. "lett-airrr" (letter), "sta-shon" (station), etc.

English is a language with clearly defined stress and non-stress of word
syllables. We say "LEH-ter", "STAY-shun". The vowels of unstressed syllables
are generally reduced to the 'schwa', i.e. 'ado', or the rhotic form
'array'.

To keep this natural stressed/unstressed rhythm of the words somewhat
preserved in Shavian, the 'ado'/'up' and 'array'/'err' differences were
incorporated. The text of (the most holy) Androcles shows this intention
clearly. It's a pity Read never highlighted it in the introduction as it
would have cleared up a lot of the confusion we currently see.

Hugh B

Why don't you write a new introduction to shavian? One that sets out
in detail how the system works, but specifically for those non-RP
speakers.

It shouldn't have to be that all would-be shavian users need to have
degres in linguistics, but a short enligtening about their own
language and how it works would prove useful (even if they decided
not to take shavian up).

Thanks
Joseph

--- In shavian@..., "Hugh Birkenhead" <mixsynth@f...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Raven" <celestraof12worlds@y...>
>
>
> > But the point IS that there is a stress difference. I think the
dead
> > horse we keep on beating here is that a stress difference is a
phonemic
> > difference. Hugh, your thoughts?
> >
> > --Star
>
> Exactly. French is a language without any noticeable stress. Many
French
> people who try to speak English end up speaking words as if they
were
> French, e.g. "lett-airrr" (letter), "sta-shon" (station), etc.
>
> English is a language with clearly defined stress and non-stress of
word
> syllables. We say "LEH-ter", "STAY-shun". The vowels of unstressed
syllables
> are generally reduced to the 'schwa', i.e. 'ado', or the rhotic form
> 'array'.
>
> To keep this natural stressed/unstressed rhythm of the words
somewhat
> preserved in Shavian, the 'ado'/'up' and 'array'/'err' differences
were
> incorporated. The text of (the most holy) Androcles shows this
intention
> clearly. It's a pity Read never highlighted it in the introduction
as it
> would have cleared up a lot of the confusion we currently see.
>
> Hugh B


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414plus

/rId-SY 40 eks el

|||||||||| 400 lANgwaJ ||||||||||

401 filosofi n Tiari

402 miselEni

403 dikSunerIz n ensFklopIdiaz

404 Jenaral speSul

405 siarial publikESunz

406 OrgAnizESunz

407 studi n tIciN

408 kolekSunz

409 histOrikal n JIogrAfikal trItment

|||||||||| 410 liNgwistiks ||||||||||

411 nOtESunz

412 etimoloJi

413 poliglot dikSunerIz

414 fonoloJi

415 strukcaral sistemz ( grAmar )

416 prosodi

417 dFalektoloJi n pEleografi

418 jMsaJ ( aplFd liNgwistiks )

419 verbul lANgwaJ not spOken Or riten

|||||||||| 420 eNgliS n ANglO-sAkson lANgwaJez ||||||||||

421 riten n spOken eNgliS

422 eNgliS etimoloJi

423 eNgliS dikSunerIz

424 fonoloJi

425 eNgliS strukcaral sistem

426 eNgliS prosodi

427 nonstAndard eNgliS

428 stAndard eNgliS jMsaJ

429 ANglO-sAkson ( Old eNgliS )

||||||||| 430 JermAnik lANgwaJez Jerman ||||||||||

431 riten n spOken Jerman

432 Jerman etimoloJi

433 Jerman dikSunerIz

434 fonoloJi

435 Jerman strukcaral sistem

436 Jerman prosodi

437 nonstAndard Jerman

438 stAndard Jerman jMsaJ

439 oHer JermAnik lANgwaJez

|||||||||| 440 rOmAns lANgwaJez frenc ||||||||||

441 riten n spOken frenc

442 frenc etimoloJi

443 frenc dikSunerIz

444 fonoloJi

445 frenc strukcaral sistem

446 frenc prosodi

447 nonstAndard frenc

448 stAndard frenc

449 provensal n kAtalan

|||||||||| 450 itAlian, rOmAnian, raetO-rOmAnik ||||||||||

451 riten n spOken itAlian

452 itAlian etimoloJi

453 itAlian dikSunerIz

454 fonoloJi

455 itAlian strukcaral sistem

456 itAlian prosodi

457 nonstAndard itAlian

458 stAndard itAlian jMsaJ

459 rOmAnian n raetO-rOmAnik

|||||||||| 460 spAniS n pOrtjMgIz ||||||||||

461 riten n spOken spAniS

462 spAniS etimoloJi

463 spAniS dikSunerIz

464 fonoloJi

465 spAniS strukcaral sistem

466 spAniS prosodi

467 nonstAndard spAniS

468 stAndard spAniS jMsaJ

469 pOrtjMgIz

|||||||||| 470 itAlik lANgwAJez lAtin ||||||||||

471 riten n spOken klAsikal lAtin

472 klAsikal lAtin etimoloJi

473 klAsikal lAtin dikSunerIz

474 fonoloJi

475 klAsikal lAtin strukcaral sistem

476 klAsikal lAtin prosodi

477 Old, pOstklAsikal, vulgar lAtin

478 klAsikal lAtin jMsaJ

479 oHer itAlik lANgwAJez

|||||||||| 480 helenik lANgwAJez klAsikal grIk ||||||||||

481 riten n spOken klAsikal grIk

482 klAsikal grIk etimoloJi

483 klAsikal grIk dikSunerIz

484 fonoloJi

485 klAsikal grIk strukcaral sistem

486 klAsikal grIk prosodi

487 pOstklAsikal grIk

488 klAsikal grIk jMsaJ

489 oHer helenik lANgwAJez

|||||||||| 490 oHer lANgwAJez ||||||||||

491 Ist indO-jUropian n seltik, inklMdiN FriS, skoc, gElik, welS, breton, etsetera.

492 AfrO-EZiAtik ( hAmitO-semitik )

493 hAmitik n cAd lANgwaJez

494 jUral-AltEik, pEleOsFbiarian, drAvidian

495 v Ist n sQTIst EZia

496 AfrikAn lANgwAJez

497 Amerikan AbOriJinal lANgwAJez

498 sQT Amerikan abOriJinal

499 oTer lANgwAJez

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` m. makOtO




I.F.E. internashunal fonetik english

t = to e = the v = of n = and

A E I O U az in Age Eat ... yoU

http://groups.msn.com/konsosiashunforspiritualiti

www.geocities.com/kfs111/konsosiashun.html <http://www.geocities.com/kfs111/konsosiashun.html>


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I'm not sure what this is all about.

Hugh B

----- Original Message -----
From: m. vero <mailto:vrn111@...>
To: shavian@... <mailto:shavian@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:34 PM
Subject: [shavian] 414plus



414plus

/rId-SY 40 eks el

|||||||||| 400 lANgwaJ ||||||||||

401 filosofi n Tiari

402 miselEni

403 dikSunerIz n ensFklopIdiaz

[colossal snip]

looked like library code, but I'm not entierly sure.

--- Hugh Birkenhead <mixsynth@...> wrote:
> I'm not sure what this is all about.
>
> Hugh B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: m. vero
> To: shavian@...
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:34 PM
> Subject: [shavian] 414plus
>
>
> 414plus
>
> /rId-SY 40 eks el
>
> |||||||||| 400 lANgwaJ ||||||||||
>
> 401 filosofi n Tiari
>
> 402 miselEni
>
> 403 dikSunerIz n ensFklopIdiaz
>
> [colossal snip]
>


=====
From the very beginning, all beings are Buddha. --Zen Master Hakuin

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shavian
group.

File : /4/4-15KEZ.WRI
Uploaded by : kfs111 <kfs111@...>
Description : handrIting vs. kEbord

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shavian/files/4/4-15KEZ.WRI

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

kfs111 <kfs111@...>






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Hi Ethan
Thanks for confirming my pronounciations of murmur and perfect.
My pronunciation is quite consistent with yours.
Regards, Paul V.

--- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> 10/31/03 1:45:50 PM, "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@h...> wrote:
>
> >Hi Hugh
> >
> >Perhaps americans have a different stress system? I can't believe
> >this to be true, but i'm baffled as to why 'up' and 'ado' or 'err'
> >and 'array' are ever confused. To me they sound wholly different.
> >
> >Perhaps the best example I can think of is 'murmur' which is not a
> >repetitive syllable, but two distinct vowels sounds,
> >contrasting 'err' and 'array'. What do speakers with other accents
> >think?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Joseph
>
> For me, murmur is pronounced "mxmx", with the only difference being
the stress
> on the first syllable. The two "Errs" are the same sound, exactly.
>
> Ethan
> The chicken came first.


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Hi Guys
For me, whatever difference between the two vowels is on the second
or final syllable of "murmur". It also sounds slightly longer if
anything.
Regards, Paul V.

-- In shavian@..., "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@h...> wrote:
> So you do have the stress on the first syllable? That means the
> second syllable is unstressed?
>
> Surely then the second vowel reduces to a schwa?
>
> I wish I had a microphone then I would record myself and play it to
> you, maybe it would shed some light. I can't figure it out.
>
> Thanks
> Joseph
>
> --- In shavian@..., Ethan <ethanl@3...> wrote:
> > 10/31/03 1:45:50 PM, "Joseph Smith" <stetsdigs@h...> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Hugh
> > >
> > >Perhaps americans have a different stress system? I can't
believe
> > >this to be true, but i'm baffled as to why 'up' and 'ado'
or 'err'
> > >and 'array' are ever confused. To me they sound wholly different.
> > >
> > >Perhaps the best example I can think of is 'murmur' which is not
a
> > >repetitive syllable, but two distinct vowels sounds,
> > >contrasting 'err' and 'array'. What do speakers with other
accents
> > >think?
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >Joseph
> >
> > For me, murmur is pronounced "mxmx", with the only difference
being
> the stress
> > on the first syllable. The two "Errs" are the same sound,
exactly.
> >
> > Ethan
> > The chicken came first.


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